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Re: Radar issues.

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  • dl6xaz
    Hi Scott, indeed I have been talking to the bandwatch people here in DL about OTHR, and I was told that it is useless to claim interference; it would be
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 20, 2010
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      Hi Scott,
      indeed I have been talking to the bandwatch people here in DL about OTHR, and I was told that it is useless to claim interference; it would be behaving like D. Quixote. I am an old fool but surely not going to mount an old Rocinante for that purpose ... :-)
      As for QSOs despite OTHR, I can recommend using Contestia: it works, as have tested it under really bad interference with 8/250. Sure Olivia will perform equally well. As for RTTYM and Domino, I got doubts, as they would have to be tested.
      Yessir, shall look out for you - and all others from beyond the pond!
      vy73 Fred DL6XAZ


      --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
      >
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      > Hi Fred, thanks for the note, I agree with you. But, I am still curious as to what the people who handle intruder reports are going to say. They may tell me that they have dealt with this before and you can either learn to live with it, or if you don't want to do that, you can always learn to live with it, and if that doesn't work, trying learning to live with it. :)
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      > You know, the OTHR is an opportunity or an excuse for another designer soundboard digital mode.
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      > Judging by what I see on the waterfall, there should be enough room between the pulses to carry on a conversation without using an excessive amount of bandwidth.
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      > I think that the space between pulses was just a little less than a psk31 signal, say 28 hz. A mode could be designed to work in between a few of those pulses. They appeared to be reasonably steady.
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      > On the plus side, the radar could easily take out our entire 50 kHz band. I suspect that the reason it doesn't, or at least I haven't see it do so, is that there are some fixed stations operating constantly within 10.1 to 10.15 and it's possible that they don't want to interfere with those station.
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      > 73 and catch you on 30 again. If you hear the radar, look for me cqing below the radar if there is a clear spot.
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      > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
      > From: dl6xaz@...
      > Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 07:32:09 +0000
      > Subject: [30MDG] Re: Radar issues.
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      > Hi Scott et al.
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      > although I am annoyed at times by the OTHR, I do not think that any of the intruder watch services maintained by fellow hams will/can do anything about it. Because we are exposed to mostly military emissions, and I very much doubt that Whitehall will care about our concerns about their unit on Cyprus, even if it would mean for them to move some hundred Hertz up, to get out of our band(s). Military communications are not subject to international treaties, they can do as they please within their technical abilities.
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      > Remains to be seen which else interferences we shall be getting because more and more states and NGOs play around with kinds of OTHR, CODAR etc. e.g. Spain, Croatia etc.
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      > The action taken in VK against that university was an outstanding example what can be done against such intruders.
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      > Considering, however, that those radar emissions are sporadic compared to all kinds of other equipment which can be bought for home use and can ruin entire spectrums - baby phones, PLC, PL-television, cheap and nasty far east power supplies -, we waste our ink and energy, because the latter can be far worse in urban areas and kill this hobby.
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      > And how about those fishermen on the European Atlantic coast who "entertain" us with their eternal chatter on 30m, in mostly Spanish and French?
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      > cuagn - vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
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      > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@> wrote:
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      > > I agree with you Joe. I don't believe any of the complaints about the "Russian Woodpecker" ever did any good.
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      > > However, I'm trying to get a hold of someone who deals with intruders at the ARRL and see what they say.
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      > > I think that as a general rule, the process for dealing with intruders should be followed, even if the complaints do not solve the problem. You never know, the operators of the OTHR may be willing to shift up 10 or 12 kHz and minimize or eliminate the interference they are causing, once they are told about it.
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      > > Maybe not.
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      > > If they get complaints from 30 different governments, they may decide that it may make more sense to move than to deal with the complaints.
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      > > I'll let everyone know what I find out if anything.
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      > > 73 and good dx.
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      > > -------------------snip --------------------
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    • Lehman, Rex
      Sure hope they keep it off this week end. It was 5-9 plus all of Saturday night. Rex Lehman Quality Assurance Measurement Specialties, Inc. 2670 Indian Ripple
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 20, 2010
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        Sure hope they keep it off this week end. It was 5-9 plus all of Saturday night.

         

        Rex Lehman

        Quality Assurance

        Measurement Specialties, Inc.

        2670 Indian Ripple Rd

        Dayton Ohio , 43140

        Office +1.937.427.1231 ext. 292


        From: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com [mailto: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Currier
        Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 11:12 PM
        To: 30mdg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [30MDG] Radar issues.

         

         

        Thank you Daithi, any idea of where the sites are?

        As a secondary user we are required to protect the primary user and accept interference from the primary user, which is the so called "fixed" radio service. I have been unable to find a definition of this radio service so I can't say whether or not OTHR falls within this service.

        My understanding is that the fixed radio service on hf is usually digital links, mostly narrowband, between fixed stations.

        I was checking the ITU's website to try to find out where OTHR is allocated and what radio service is falls under.

        So far it appears to fall under "radiodetermination" but I'm not 100 percent sure.

        Anyone have any links that define the different radio services. Fixed, mobile, etc, some are obvious but I'd like to know for sure what radio service OTHR falls under.

        Thanks for your help.



        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
        From: gi7omy@...
        Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 01:59:10 +0100
        Subject: RE: [30MDG] Radar issues.

         

         

        It’s Over the Horizon Radar (from a couple of sites).

         

        You have to remember that we’re only secondary users of the band and have to put up with it (and not cause any interference)

         

        Daithi, GI7OMY

         

        From: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com [mailto: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Currier
        Sent: 19 September 2010 01:36
        To: 30mdg@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [30MDG] Radar issues.

         

         

        The radar signal is quite strong tonite here in FN42. It's running from about 10.136 to above .150. At times as strong as ten over s9.

        I was able to make some Q's in JT65 despite the interference and went down to about 10.135 and made a RTTY and MFSK16 Q as well.

        Has anyone tried one of the 2000 cycle modes against the radar to see how well it did or didn't get through?

        Otherwise, I guess the only thing to do is to move below the radar. As long as we're not stepping on anyone's toes, that shouldn't be a problem.

        Does anyone know the source of the radar?

        73 and have a nice weekend.






















         

      • Scott Currier
        Yes, it was horrible for hours on end. I wasn t really in a cw mood so after not hearing any dx that I wanted on cw I went up and made a few contacts around
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 20, 2010
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          Yes, it was horrible for hours on end.

          I wasn't really in a cw mood so after not hearing any dx that I wanted on cw I went up and made a few contacts around 10.134 on RTTY and MFSK16. I was able to make a few jt65 contacts by going down 500 from 10.137  where it was a little weaker. It seemed that the radar was strongest about 138 to above 150.

          I think that the best solution may be to try to operate digital below the radar. I don't like the idea of trying to call cq with a wide mode without being able to check and see if the frequency is clear. It could be in use by hams who are not affected by the radar.

          There was room down around .134 so that's where I went. I was happy to work an LU on RTTY. Needed LU on 30 and needed it on RTTY as well.

          73 and have a nice day.

























          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
          From: rex.lehman@...
          Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:11:25 -0400
          Subject: RE: [30MDG] Radar issues.

           

          Sure hope they keep it off this week end. It was 5-9 plus all of Saturday night.

           

          Rex Lehman

          Quality Assurance

          Measurement Specialties, Inc.

          2670 Indian Ripple Rd

          Dayton Ohio, 43140

          Office +1.937.427.1231 ext. 292


          From: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:30MDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Currier
          Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 11:12 PM
          To: 30mdg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [30MDG] Radar issues.

           

           

          Thank you Daithi, any idea of where the sites are?

          As a secondary user we are required to protect the primary user and accept interference from the primary user, which is the so called "fixed" radio service. I have been unable to find a definition of this radio service so I can't say whether or not OTHR falls within this service.

          My understanding is that the fixed radio service on hf is usually digital links, mostly narrowband, between fixed stations.

          I was checking the ITU's website to try to find out where OTHR is allocated and what radio service is falls under.

          So far it appears to fall under "radiodetermination" but I'm not 100 percent sure.

          Anyone have any links that define the different radio services. Fixed, mobile, etc, some are obvious but I'd like to know for sure what radio service OTHR falls under.

          Thanks for your help.




          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
          From: gi7omy@...
          Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 01:59:10 +0100
          Subject: RE: [30MDG] Radar issues.

           

           

          It’s Over the Horizon Radar (from a couple of sites).

           

          You have to remember that we’re only secondary users of the band and have to put up with it (and not cause any interference)

           

          Daithi, GI7OMY

           

          From: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:30MDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Currier
          Sent: 19 September 2010 01:36
          To: 30mdg@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [30MDG] Radar issues.

           

           

          The radar signal is quite strong tonite here in FN42. It's running from about 10.136 to above .150. At times as strong as ten over s9.

          I was able to make some Q's in JT65 despite the interference and went down to about 10.135 and made a RTTY and MFSK16 Q as well.

          Has anyone tried one of the 2000 cycle modes against the radar to see how well it did or didn't get through?

          Otherwise, I guess the only thing to do is to move below the radar. As long as we're not stepping on anyone's toes, that shouldn't be a problem.

          Does anyone know the source of the radar?

          73 and have a nice weekend.






















           


        • ka8oqf
          ... If I can pull some time off, I plan on seeing what kind of havoc we can raise out here on 30m... No JT65 yet, the computers we use are standalone and don t
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 20, 2010
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            --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "Daithi" <gi7omy@...> wrote:
            >
            > 30m Multi Mode Weekend

            If I can pull some time off, I plan on seeing what kind of havoc we can raise out here on 30m...

            No JT65 yet, the computers we use are standalone and don't sync up with teh Intertubes for time...but we can run boatloads of the other modes with MultiPSK.

            And yes, I will brush up on the use of RSID.


            For DARA Club Stn W8BI
            Charlie KA8OQF
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