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Re: [30MDG] Spotters

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  • Sean Cavanaugh
    Hi Ivan, It could be that they aren t actually at the radio. I tend to leave my radio tuned to the 30m PSK watering hole at 10.140 even when I am at work or
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 4, 2009
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      Hi Ivan,


      It could be that they aren't actually at the radio. I tend to leave my
      radio tuned to the 30m PSK watering hole at 10.140 even when I am at
      work or just around the house. I let my radio upload all the calls it
      decodes to pskreporter.info so I can learn about 30m propagation.

      It does seem that the 30m band is often completely empty, even though
      it's open. I've had several QSOs with strong stations (S5-S9) on an
      otherwise completely empty waterfall just because I called CQ even when
      it looked like the band was closed.

      At my QTH, there is some source of noise that does show up every now and
      then, causing the noise floor to jump to S5 or so, and when this happens
      I tend to lose any DX signals. What's your noise floor at on your radio?

      73,

      Sean - VA5LF

      On 09-11-04 4:04 PM, ok1igk wrote:
      >
      >
      > Today, after calling CQ into absolutely empty waterfall I found out,
      > that my signal was spotted in W and UA9. The band was empty, the same
      > way, with my both antennas,
      > GAP Titan vertical and double Zepp as inverted Vee, carefully tuned to
      > 10.140 MHz.
      > I start to worry, whether is something wrong with my FT-950 front end or
      > the noise level from both antennas could be too high? Could also be the
      > reason, that the spotters use beams on towers with better S/N ratio?
      > 73 from Ivan, OK1IGK
    • pa3gwh@pa3gwh.com
      Hi Ivan, I have seen the same last night. John VE1CDD spotted me, gave me a 599 via hamspots.net and tried callilng me.... NOTHING...not a single trace from
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 4, 2009
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        Hi Ivan,

        I have seen the same last night. John VE1CDD spotted me, gave me a 599 via hamspots.net and tried callilng me.... NOTHING...not a single trace from him. It is one way traffic at the moment, very weird conditions indeed but I don't think your antennas and rig are the problem ;-)

        Richard


        --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "ok1igk" <ivankait@...> wrote:
        >
        > Today, after calling CQ into absolutely empty waterfall I found out, that my signal was spotted in W and UA9. The band was empty, the same way, with my both antennas,
        > GAP Titan vertical and double Zepp as inverted Vee, carefully tuned to 10.140 MHz.
        > I start to worry, whether is something wrong with my FT-950 front end or the noise level from both antennas could be too high? Could also be the reason, that the spotters use beams on towers with better S/N ratio?
        > 73 from Ivan, OK1IGK
        >
      • ok1igk
        Hi Richard, You have brought peace in my soul back again :-), thank you. This one way traffic could be the idea. Imagine, that there is some reflecting cloud
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 5, 2009
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          Hi Richard,
          You have brought peace in my soul back again :-), thank you.
          This one way traffic could be the idea. Imagine, that there is some reflecting cloud in the ionosphere near to us. Than landing density of energy from our antennas is much higher and reflected power too, than from DX station, where the way to this reflecting cloud is much longer and power density much lower. (square root of distance?) Then reflected energy from DX station is below our noise floor.
          Does it make sense?
          73 to whole 30MDG crowd
          Ivan, OK1IGK

          --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, pa3gwh@... wrote:
          >
          > Hi Ivan,
          >
          > I have seen the same last night. John VE1CDD spotted me, gave me a 599 via hamspots.net and tried callilng me.... NOTHING...not a single trace from him. It is one way traffic at the moment, very weird conditions indeed but I don't think your antennas and rig are the problem ;-)
          >
          > Richard
          >
          >
          > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "ok1igk" <ivankait@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Today, after calling CQ into absolutely empty waterfall I found out, that my signal was spotted in W and UA9. The band was empty, the same way, with my both antennas,
          > > GAP Titan vertical and double Zepp as inverted Vee, carefully tuned to 10.140 MHz.
          > > I start to worry, whether is something wrong with my FT-950 front end or the noise level from both antennas could be too high? Could also be the reason, that the spotters use beams on towers with better S/N ratio?
          > > 73 from Ivan, OK1IGK
          > >
          >
        • ok1igk
          Hi Sean, I do not expect, that spotters call spotted stations back. I mean, that at the same time, surely other stations in spotter area could see my CQ. My
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 5, 2009
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            Hi Sean,

            I do not expect, that spotters call spotted stations back. I mean, that at the same time, surely other stations in spotter area could see my CQ. My concern is, that they eventually call back, but I do not see a trace. In the meantime Richard, PA3GWH confirmed my experience. My noise level, in spite of my countryside QTH, away from industrial noise sources, is high, S3 to S7 depending of IF bandwidth.
            It could be the reason for my empty waterfall. BTW, just now, 1859 UTC, calling CQ, I was spotted by W1BW (hamspots.net), but the band stays still, with monotone noise across its entire width. Noise strength S3/300Hz IF bandwidth with vertical, S5/300Hz with inverted Vee dipole.
            My problem is, that at the moment OZ1HPS sees RA6WF and RA6WF sees OZ1HVL, but I have no trace of both of them.
            73 Ivan, OK1IGK

            --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Sean Cavanaugh <seanc@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hi Ivan,
            >
            >
            > It could be that they aren't actually at the radio. I tend to leave my
            > radio tuned to the 30m PSK watering hole at 10.140 even when I am at
            > work or just around the house. I let my radio upload all the calls it
            > decodes to pskreporter.info so I can learn about 30m propagation.
            >
            > It does seem that the 30m band is often completely empty, even though
            > it's open. I've had several QSOs with strong stations (S5-S9) on an
            > otherwise completely empty waterfall just because I called CQ even when
            > it looked like the band was closed.
            >
            > At my QTH, there is some source of noise that does show up every now and
            > then, causing the noise floor to jump to S5 or so, and when this happens
            > I tend to lose any DX signals. What's your noise floor at on your radio?
            >
            > 73,
            >
            > Sean - VA5LF
            >
            > On 09-11-04 4:04 PM, ok1igk wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Today, after calling CQ into absolutely empty waterfall I found out,
            > > that my signal was spotted in W and UA9. The band was empty, the same
            > > way, with my both antennas,
            > > GAP Titan vertical and double Zepp as inverted Vee, carefully tuned to
            > > 10.140 MHz.
            > > I start to worry, whether is something wrong with my FT-950 front end or
            > > the noise level from both antennas could be too high? Could also be the
            > > reason, that the spotters use beams on towers with better S/N ratio?
            > > 73 from Ivan, OK1IGK
            >
          • Sean Cavanaugh
            Hi Ivan, I see what you mean now. I think your noise issue may be a bit part of the problem. I have a local intermittent noise source that spikes my noise
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 5, 2009
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              Hi Ivan,

              I see what you mean now. I think your noise issue may be a bit part of
              the problem. I have a local intermittent noise source that spikes my
              noise floor up to S5-S7 at full filter bandwidth, and when it does so I
              lose all chance of DX contacts. Today I was on the band with my noise
              floor at S0, and there were about 5 or 6 weak but copyable signals. Just
              after I finished a QSO, the noise started, and the waterfall looked just
              like a dead band. I know there were signals in there, as I had seen them
              while in the QSO, but they were no longer visible on the waterfall.

              If you can find the source of your noise you should have much better
              luck. I'm trying to track mine down to see if it can be fixed, but as it
              is very intermittent, it's hard to find.

              Good luck, and I'll be sure to call you if I see you on the band.

              73,

              Sean - VA5LF

              On 09-11-05 1:16 PM, ok1igk wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi Sean,
              >
              > I do not expect, that spotters call spotted stations back. I mean, that
              > at the same time, surely other stations in spotter area could see my CQ.
              > My concern is, that they eventually call back, but I do not see a trace.
              > In the meantime Richard, PA3GWH confirmed my experience. My noise level,
              > in spite of my countryside QTH, away from industrial noise sources, is
              > high, S3 to S7 depending of IF bandwidth.
              > It could be the reason for my empty waterfall. BTW, just now, 1859 UTC,
              > calling CQ, I was spotted by W1BW (hamspots.net), but the band stays
              > still, with monotone noise across its entire width. Noise strength
              > S3/300Hz IF bandwidth with vertical, S5/300Hz with inverted Vee dipole.
              > My problem is, that at the moment OZ1HPS sees RA6WF and RA6WF sees
              > OZ1HVL, but I have no trace of both of them.
              > 73 Ivan, OK1IGK
              >
              > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:30MDG%40yahoogroups.com>, Sean
              > Cavanaugh <seanc@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Hi Ivan,
              > >
              > >
              > > It could be that they aren't actually at the radio. I tend to leave my
              > > radio tuned to the 30m PSK watering hole at 10.140 even when I am at
              > > work or just around the house. I let my radio upload all the calls it
              > > decodes to pskreporter.info so I can learn about 30m propagation.
              > >
              > > It does seem that the 30m band is often completely empty, even though
              > > it's open. I've had several QSOs with strong stations (S5-S9) on an
              > > otherwise completely empty waterfall just because I called CQ even when
              > > it looked like the band was closed.
              > >
              > > At my QTH, there is some source of noise that does show up every now and
              > > then, causing the noise floor to jump to S5 or so, and when this happens
              > > I tend to lose any DX signals. What's your noise floor at on your radio?
              > >
              > > 73,
              > >
              > > Sean - VA5LF
              > >
              > > On 09-11-04 4:04 PM, ok1igk wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Today, after calling CQ into absolutely empty waterfall I found out,
              > > > that my signal was spotted in W and UA9. The band was empty, the same
              > > > way, with my both antennas,
              > > > GAP Titan vertical and double Zepp as inverted Vee, carefully tuned to
              > > > 10.140 MHz.
              > > > I start to worry, whether is something wrong with my FT-950 front
              > end or
              > > > the noise level from both antennas could be too high? Could also be the
              > > > reason, that the spotters use beams on towers with better S/N ratio?
              > > > 73 from Ivan, OK1IGK
              > >
            • ed_hekman
              Ivan, The station here is an old TS-530S radio and a Cushcraft D3W rotatable dipole at 45 feet. For most of last year the antenna was on the deck railing at
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 5, 2009
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                Ivan,

                The station here is an old TS-530S radio and a Cushcraft D3W rotatable dipole at 45 feet. For most of last year the antenna was on the deck railing at about 12 feet. I also had good success in the past with a wire inverted V with the center at 25 feet. So it doesn't require any gain to work the world on 30 meters.

                This band has been full of surprises. It seems to be open to somewhere almost around the clock. A number of times I have called CQ when there were no other signals on the band and received responses. This past April I responded to a strong W6 calling CQ then discovered the call sign was IW6ATQ. I have also had several QSOs since July with a Softrock radio running about 1/2 watt.

                I frequently see EU stations with signals not quite strong enough for a QSO. I would like to do some experimentation with PSK31FEC and PSK10 sometime (MultiPSK) to see if those modes would have enough sensitivity to pull these stations in.

                Ed
                WB6YTE

                --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "ok1igk" <ivankait@...> wrote:
                >
                > Today, after calling CQ into absolutely empty waterfall I found out, that my signal was spotted in W and UA9. The band was empty, the same way, with my both antennas,
                > GAP Titan vertical and double Zepp as inverted Vee, carefully tuned to 10.140 MHz.
                > I start to worry, whether is something wrong with my FT-950 front end or the noise level from both antennas could be too high? Could also be the reason, that the spotters use beams on towers with better S/N ratio?
                > 73 from Ivan, OK1IGK
                >
              • ok1igk
                Hi Ed, after reading all of yours meanings, first of all, I must trace up the source of additional noise. The noise level is S0 at 14 MHz, S4 at 10 MHz and S6
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 6, 2009
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                  Hi Ed,
                  after reading all of yours meanings, first of all, I must trace up the source of additional noise. The noise level is S0 at 14 MHz, S4 at 10 MHz and S6 at 7 MHz, with full IF bandwidth of 2.4 kHz with the same vertical antenna GAP Titan DX. Unfortunately, probably the source could be the overland high voltage power line, about 500 yards away from my QTH. In such case, bad luck for my DX activities.
                  Best 73, Ivan OK1IGK

                  --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "ed_hekman" <ehekman@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Ivan,
                  >
                  > The station here is an old TS-530S radio and a Cushcraft D3W rotatable dipole at 45 feet. For most of last year the antenna was on the deck railing at about 12 feet. I also had good success in the past with a wire inverted V with the center at 25 feet. So it doesn't require any gain to work the world on 30 meters.
                  >
                  > This band has been full of surprises. It seems to be open to somewhere almost around the clock. A number of times I have called CQ when there were no other signals on the band and received responses. This past April I responded to a strong W6 calling CQ then discovered the call sign was IW6ATQ. I have also had several QSOs since July with a Softrock radio running about 1/2 watt.
                  >
                  > I frequently see EU stations with signals not quite strong enough for a QSO. I would like to do some experimentation with PSK31FEC and PSK10 sometime (MultiPSK) to see if those modes would have enough sensitivity to pull these stations in.
                  >
                  > Ed
                  > WB6YTE
                  >
                  > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "ok1igk" <ivankait@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Today, after calling CQ into absolutely empty waterfall I found out, that my signal was spotted in W and UA9. The band was empty, the same way, with my both antennas,
                  > > GAP Titan vertical and double Zepp as inverted Vee, carefully tuned to 10.140 MHz.
                  > > I start to worry, whether is something wrong with my FT-950 front end or the noise level from both antennas could be too high? Could also be the reason, that the spotters use beams on towers with better S/N ratio?
                  > > 73 from Ivan, OK1IGK
                  > >
                  >
                • ok1igk
                  Hi Sean, very quick and embarrassing result of my noise source investigation, actually first thing to check...switching power supply for my laptop. Running
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 6, 2009
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                    Hi Sean,
                    very quick and embarrassing result of my noise source investigation, actually first thing to check...switching power supply for my laptop.
                    Running laptop from battery brought noise level down to S0.
                    Disappointment, band stays empty anyway.
                    73 Ivan OK1IGK

                    --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Sean Cavanaugh <seanc@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Ivan,
                    >
                    > I see what you mean now. I think your noise issue may be a bit part of
                    > the problem. I have a local intermittent noise source that spikes my
                    > noise floor up to S5-S7 at full filter bandwidth, and when it does so I
                    > lose all chance of DX contacts. Today I was on the band with my noise
                    > floor at S0, and there were about 5 or 6 weak but copyable signals. Just
                    > after I finished a QSO, the noise started, and the waterfall looked just
                    > like a dead band. I know there were signals in there, as I had seen them
                    > while in the QSO, but they were no longer visible on the waterfall.
                    >
                    > If you can find the source of your noise you should have much better
                    > luck. I'm trying to track mine down to see if it can be fixed, but as it
                    > is very intermittent, it's hard to find.
                    >
                    > Good luck, and I'll be sure to call you if I see you on the band.
                    >
                    > 73,
                    >
                    > Sean - VA5LF
                    >
                    > On 09-11-05 1:16 PM, ok1igk wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hi Sean,
                    > >
                    > > I do not expect, that spotters call spotted stations back. I mean, that
                    > > at the same time, surely other stations in spotter area could see my CQ.
                    > > My concern is, that they eventually call back, but I do not see a trace.
                    > > In the meantime Richard, PA3GWH confirmed my experience. My noise level,
                    > > in spite of my countryside QTH, away from industrial noise sources, is
                    > > high, S3 to S7 depending of IF bandwidth.
                    > > It could be the reason for my empty waterfall. BTW, just now, 1859 UTC,
                    > > calling CQ, I was spotted by W1BW (hamspots.net), but the band stays
                    > > still, with monotone noise across its entire width. Noise strength
                    > > S3/300Hz IF bandwidth with vertical, S5/300Hz with inverted Vee dipole.
                    > > My problem is, that at the moment OZ1HPS sees RA6WF and RA6WF sees
                    > > OZ1HVL, but I have no trace of both of them.
                    > > 73 Ivan, OK1IGK
                    > >
                    > > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:30MDG%40yahoogroups.com>, Sean
                    > > Cavanaugh <seanc@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Ivan,
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > It could be that they aren't actually at the radio. I tend to leave my
                    > > > radio tuned to the 30m PSK watering hole at 10.140 even when I am at
                    > > > work or just around the house. I let my radio upload all the calls it
                    > > > decodes to pskreporter.info so I can learn about 30m propagation.
                    > > >
                    > > > It does seem that the 30m band is often completely empty, even though
                    > > > it's open. I've had several QSOs with strong stations (S5-S9) on an
                    > > > otherwise completely empty waterfall just because I called CQ even when
                    > > > it looked like the band was closed.
                    > > >
                    > > > At my QTH, there is some source of noise that does show up every now and
                    > > > then, causing the noise floor to jump to S5 or so, and when this happens
                    > > > I tend to lose any DX signals. What's your noise floor at on your radio?
                    > > >
                    > > > 73,
                    > > >
                    > > > Sean - VA5LF
                    > > >
                    > > > On 09-11-04 4:04 PM, ok1igk wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Today, after calling CQ into absolutely empty waterfall I found out,
                    > > > > that my signal was spotted in W and UA9. The band was empty, the same
                    > > > > way, with my both antennas,
                    > > > > GAP Titan vertical and double Zepp as inverted Vee, carefully tuned to
                    > > > > 10.140 MHz.
                    > > > > I start to worry, whether is something wrong with my FT-950 front
                    > > end or
                    > > > > the noise level from both antennas could be too high? Could also be the
                    > > > > reason, that the spotters use beams on towers with better S/N ratio?
                    > > > > 73 from Ivan, OK1IGK
                    > > >
                    >
                  • ed_hekman
                    Ivan, I forgot to mention that I had that same problem a couple years ago but the noise level was S7 - S9 much of the time. I couldn t figure out why people
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 7, 2009
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                      Ivan,

                      I forgot to mention that I had that same problem a couple years ago but the noise level was S7 - S9 much of the time. I couldn't figure out why people would consistently respond to my CQs then disappear into the noise. It turned out to be a new power supply I had purchased for a second computer. I have also found that one of the radio power supplies I had been using put out S9 hash at several frequencies.

                      My experience with a vertical antenna compared to a dipole/inverted V have consistently shown that the vertical picks up substantially more noise at my location.

                      Good luck,
                      Ed
                      WB6YTE

                      --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "ok1igk" <ivankait@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Sean,
                      > very quick and embarrassing result of my noise source investigation, actually first thing to check...switching power supply for my laptop.
                      > Running laptop from battery brought noise level down to S0.
                      > Disappointment, band stays empty anyway.
                      > 73 Ivan OK1IGK
                    • Sean Cavanaugh
                      Glad to hear you got it figured out. Switch-mode power supplies can be a real pain. Keep trying, and I m sure you ll find the signals appear. I often find the
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 7, 2009
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                        Glad to hear you got it figured out. Switch-mode power supplies can be a
                        real pain.

                        Keep trying, and I'm sure you'll find the signals appear. I often find
                        the band empty, but sometimes a CQ will get a response. I often leave my
                        radio on, but am doing other things in the shack, but come over to check
                        things out when I hear a signal on the band.

                        73,

                        --
                        Sean - VA5LF

                        On 11/6/2009 2:40 PM, ok1igk wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Sean,
                        > very quick and embarrassing result of my noise source investigation,
                        > actually first thing to check...switching power supply for my laptop.
                        > Running laptop from battery brought noise level down to S0.
                        > Disappointment, band stays empty anyway.
                        > 73 Ivan OK1IGK
                        >
                        > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:30MDG%40yahoogroups.com>, Sean
                        > Cavanaugh <seanc@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hi Ivan,
                        > >
                        > > I see what you mean now. I think your noise issue may be a bit part of
                        > > the problem. I have a local intermittent noise source that spikes my
                        > > noise floor up to S5-S7 at full filter bandwidth, and when it does so I
                        > > lose all chance of DX contacts. Today I was on the band with my noise
                        > > floor at S0, and there were about 5 or 6 weak but copyable signals. Just
                        > > after I finished a QSO, the noise started, and the waterfall looked just
                        > > like a dead band. I know there were signals in there, as I had seen them
                        > > while in the QSO, but they were no longer visible on the waterfall.
                        > >
                        > > If you can find the source of your noise you should have much better
                        > > luck. I'm trying to track mine down to see if it can be fixed, but as it
                        > > is very intermittent, it's hard to find.
                        > >
                        > > Good luck, and I'll be sure to call you if I see you on the band.
                        > >
                        > > 73,
                        > >
                        > > Sean - VA5LF
                        > >
                        > > On 09-11-05 1:16 PM, ok1igk wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi Sean,
                        > > >
                        > > > I do not expect, that spotters call spotted stations back. I mean, that
                        > > > at the same time, surely other stations in spotter area could see
                        > my CQ.
                        > > > My concern is, that they eventually call back, but I do not see a
                        > trace.
                        > > > In the meantime Richard, PA3GWH confirmed my experience. My noise
                        > level,
                        > > > in spite of my countryside QTH, away from industrial noise sources, is
                        > > > high, S3 to S7 depending of IF bandwidth.
                        > > > It could be the reason for my empty waterfall. BTW, just now, 1859 UTC,
                        > > > calling CQ, I was spotted by W1BW (hamspots.net), but the band stays
                        > > > still, with monotone noise across its entire width. Noise strength
                        > > > S3/300Hz IF bandwidth with vertical, S5/300Hz with inverted Vee dipole.
                        > > > My problem is, that at the moment OZ1HPS sees RA6WF and RA6WF sees
                        > > > OZ1HVL, but I have no trace of both of them.
                        > > > 73 Ivan, OK1IGK
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:30MDG%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > <mailto:30MDG%40yahoogroups.com>, Sean
                        > > > Cavanaugh <seanc@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hi Ivan,
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > It could be that they aren't actually at the radio. I tend to
                        > leave my
                        > > > > radio tuned to the 30m PSK watering hole at 10.140 even when I am at
                        > > > > work or just around the house. I let my radio upload all the calls it
                        > > > > decodes to pskreporter.info so I can learn about 30m propagation.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > It does seem that the 30m band is often completely empty, even though
                        > > > > it's open. I've had several QSOs with strong stations (S5-S9) on an
                        > > > > otherwise completely empty waterfall just because I called CQ
                        > even when
                        > > > > it looked like the band was closed.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > At my QTH, there is some source of noise that does show up every
                        > now and
                        > > > > then, causing the noise floor to jump to S5 or so, and when this
                        > happens
                        > > > > I tend to lose any DX signals. What's your noise floor at on your
                        > radio?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > 73,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Sean - VA5LF
                        > > > >
                        > > > > On 09-11-04 4:04 PM, ok1igk wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Today, after calling CQ into absolutely empty waterfall I found
                        > out,
                        > > > > > that my signal was spotted in W and UA9. The band was empty,
                        > the same
                        > > > > > way, with my both antennas,
                        > > > > > GAP Titan vertical and double Zepp as inverted Vee, carefully
                        > tuned to
                        > > > > > 10.140 MHz.
                        > > > > > I start to worry, whether is something wrong with my FT-950 front
                        > > > end or
                        > > > > > the noise level from both antennas could be too high? Could
                        > also be the
                        > > > > > reason, that the spotters use beams on towers with better S/N
                        > ratio?
                        > > > > > 73 from Ivan, OK1IGK
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
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