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The varied modes

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  • ka8oqf
    Always wondered why we had less than stellar results out here at W8BI with some modes and they can hear us on Alpha Centauri with others... I remembered
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 5, 2013
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      Always wondered why we had less than stellar results out here at W8BI with some modes and they can hear us on Alpha Centauri with others...
      I remembered working the world QRP-ish with PSK31, but things weren't that good with JT65.
      And then the light bulb went on while doing some JT9. It's all a question of bandwidth. (These are all rounded-off ballpark figures.)

      JT65 - RTTY 170 Hz (6 min QSO JT65 - real time RTTY)
      PSK31 31 Hz (real time QSO)
      JT9-1 16 Hz 6 min QSO
      JT9-2 7 Hz 12 min QSO
      JT9-5 3 Hz 30 min QSO
      JT9-10 1.5 Hz 60 min QSO
      JT9-30 0.4 Hz 180 min QSO

      Anyone interested in making arrangements for a QSO some day with JT9-2 or JT9-5? As I understand it, as you drop in bandwidth, the time for a QSO goes up but the power requirements go down proportionately.
      However, the less bandwidth the greater the need for VERY stable xmit/rcv oscillators, and I'm not sure just how low our Yaesu 990 can go...

      But...it'd be fun trying JT9-2 or JT9-5...

      Any takers?

      For the Dayton Amateur Radio Club stn W8BI
      Charlie KA8OQF
    • Scott Currier
      I think you ll find that things are a little more complicated than lower bandwidth = better performance. Compare psk31 with Olivia, Contestia, MFSK-16, etc.
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 7, 2013
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        I think you'll find that things are a little more complicated than lower bandwidth = better performance.

        Compare psk31 with Olivia, Contestia, MFSK-16, etc. All of those modes will run circles around psk31 as far as accuracy under tough conditions, yet they are all wider modes than psk31 is.  They use better encoding of the data as well as redundancy to produce very good copy in conditions that using psk31 would give you a screen full of garbage.

        JT-9 and 65 can't be compared with psk31 and other keyboard chat modes because they only transmit 13 characters in a 50 second transmission.

        With keyboard to keyboard chat modes, if you want to increase robustness you use the best encoding techniques as possible and you add redundancy as well. The result is a signal that will be more robust than a mode such as psk31.

        PSK31 is very narrow and works well when the s/n ratio is good. It's an excellent mode until the signal to noise ratio starts to drop.

        When that happens, you really want to be using Olivia or Contestia. Each mode has different submodes so you can choose how much bandwidth you want to use, how much robustness you want, and what speed you require.

        If you want more speed you can usually trade robustness for speed and keep the same bandwidth. If you want more robustness you can drop speed and keep the same bandwidth. Contestia uses a smaller character set so it can give you more speed with the same bandwidth than Olivia can.

        If you want both speed and robustness then you're going to have to increase bandwidth.

        There are charts online showing the various submodes of Olivia and Contestia. The charts show the minimum s/n as well as the speed and bandwidth of each submode. You have a quite a few to choose from.


        JT-9 and 65 are the most robust modes on HF that I know of.

        One of the reasons that you don't see psk31 on 160 is that it wouldn't do too well with all of the noise, yet JT65 works very well on top band.

        Disclaimer, psk31 would work on short haul 160 meter contacts where the signal to noise ratio is good. However, the DX contacts that you make using JT65 where you are 20 db or more down from the noise wouldn't be possible with psk31.

        Coding, redundancy, bandwidth, and length of transmission all effect how robust a mode is.

        Have a nice day. 73 and good dx.

        Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
























        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
        From: charliecotterman@...
        Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 04:51:53 +0000
        Subject: [30MDG] The varied modes

         
        Always wondered why we had less than stellar results out here at W8BI with some modes and they can hear us on Alpha Centauri with others...
        I remembered working the world QRP-ish with PSK31, but things weren't that good with JT65.
        And then the light bulb went on while doing some JT9. It's all a question of bandwidth. (These are all rounded-off ballpark figures.)

        JT65 - RTTY 170 Hz (6 min QSO JT65 - real time RTTY)
        PSK31 31 Hz (real time QSO)
        JT9-1 16 Hz 6 min QSO
        JT9-2 7 Hz 12 min QSO
        JT9-5 3 Hz 30 min QSO
        JT9-10 1.5 Hz 60 min QSO
        JT9-30 0.4 Hz 180 min QSO

        Anyone interested in making arrangements for a QSO some day with JT9-2 or JT9-5? As I understand it, as you drop in bandwidth, the time for a QSO goes up but the power requirements go down proportionately.
        However, the less bandwidth the greater the need for VERY stable xmit/rcv oscillators, and I'm not sure just how low our Yaesu 990 can go...

        But...it'd be fun trying JT9-2 or JT9-5...

        Any takers?

        For the Dayton Amateur Radio Club stn W8BI
        Charlie KA8OQF


      • Joe Brown
        Scott I know that JT-9 and JT-65 are NOT conversational modes. I assume that it verifies that you and the other station hear each other. Is that it? I know
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 7, 2013
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          Scott I know that JT-9 and JT-65 are NOT conversational modes. I assume that it verifies that you and the other station "hear" each other. Is that it?

          I know that you are knowledgeable about the JT modes. Can you post for my (and probably others) information just what happens during a JT "connection"
          ?

          73 - Joe W2JLB
          


        • Scott Currier
          Hi Joe, the JT modes aren t conversation modes because it s difficult to hold a conversation with a maximum of 13 characters per transmission and the fact that
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 7, 2013
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            Hi Joe, the JT modes aren't conversation modes because it's difficult to hold a conversation with a maximum of 13 characters per transmission and the fact that each transmission takes 50 seconds and there is a 10 second silent period after that.

            So while it is technically possible to have a conversation on JT65 or 9 it would be time consuming.

            I have made a lot of contacts on JT65 and some on JT9 but I am not an expert. I have not studied what makes the mode so darn good.

            I don't see you in my log so I'm guessing that you don't yet work JT65.

            I'm sure if you were active on the mode we would have crossed paths already.

            JT65 and JT9 are designed to make minimal contacts under the worst conditions.

            The information that you exchange are calls, signal reports, and usually a grid square.

            The contacts normally end with a 73 and quite often the 73 will include antenna type and power.

            Unlike most other modes, the software computes the signal to noise ratio and sends that as the signal report.

            A typical contact will go like this....

            CQ KT1B FN42    
            NA4EA KT1B EN88
            NA4EA KT1B -05
            KT1B NA4EA -10
            NA4EA KT1B RRR
            KT1B NA4EA TU 40W loop 73
            NA4EA KT1B TU 20W dip 73

            So what I found out from NA4EA is that he is in EN88, he is hearing me at 10 db down from the noise, with JT65 -10 is not a bad signal to noise ratio. You can work stations down to -25 or possibly weaker. He is using 40 watts into a loop antenna.


            Each of those transmissions takes 1 minute if you include the silent period.

            The transmissions are began at the top of the minute and your computer should be synced with a time server. You clock should be accurate to within a fraction of a second.

            I sync once per minute.

            A shortened version that I use goes like this.

            CQ KT1B FN42
            KT1B NA4EA EN88
            NA4EA KT1B -05
            KT1B NA4EA -10
            NA4EA KT1B 73
            KT1B NA4EA 73

            Now I don't have to wait another minute to send a CQ, it's my turn to transmit so I send another CQ.

            If you look above you will see that at the end of the longer contact, it will be the other person's turn to transmit when the contact is ended. This is because I was the last to transmit during the QSO.

            Of course I could and sometimes do tell the software to transmit on the opposite minute instead of waiting.

            You can have QSO after QSO and never touch the keyboard. All you need to do is click the mouse on the right button.

            I hope that is the kind of info you were looking for.

            I have not looked into what kind of encoding goes into a JT9 or 65 signal so I can't tell you exactly why they are so robust.

            Part of the reason is that you are transmitting very little info and using a lot of time to do it. Thus there is plenty of opportunity for redundancy.

            I hope that helps.

            Have a nice evening.

            73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA






















            To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
            From: w2jlb1@...
            Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:24:42 -0400
            Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

             

            Scott I know that JT-9 and JT-65 are NOT conversational modes. I assume that it verifies that you and the other station "hear" each other. Is that it?

            I know that you are knowledgeable about the JT modes. Can you post for my (and probably others) information just what happens during a JT "connection"
            ?

            73 - Joe W2JLB
            



          • Joe Brown
            Scott thank you for the explanation. No I don t work JT-9 or 65. I m a real rag chewer and this type of communications would not be my cup of tea. But thanks
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 7, 2013
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              Scott thank you for the explanation. No I don't work JT-9 or 65. I'm a real rag chewer and this type of communications would not be my cup of tea. But thanks to you I understand it better what you guys are doing.

              This is another example of the "power" of amateur radio. There so many different things one can get involved with. Perhaps the day will come when I will again try something different. After all, it was one of those trying different things that bought me from SSB to CW. Then from CW to the HF digital modes.
              73 - Joe W2JLB
              
              On 8/7/2013 7:14 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
               

              Hi Joe, the JT modes aren't conversation modes because it's difficult to hold a conversation with a maximum of 13 characters per transmission and the fact that each transmission takes 50 seconds and there is a 10 second silent period after that.

              So while it is technically possible to have a conversation on JT65 or 9 it would be time consuming.

              I have made a lot of contacts on JT65 and some on JT9 but I am not an expert. I have not studied what makes the mode so darn good.

              I don't see you in my log so I'm guessing that you don't yet work JT65.

              I'm sure if you were active on the mode we would have crossed paths already.

              JT65 and JT9 are designed to make minimal contacts under the worst conditions.

              The information that you exchange are calls, signal reports, and usually a grid square.

              The contacts normally end with a 73 and quite often the 73 will include antenna type and power.

              Unlike most other modes, the software computes the signal to noise ratio and sends that as the signal report.

              A typical contact will go like this....

              CQ KT1B FN42    
              NA4EA KT1B EN88
              NA4EA KT1B -05
              KT1B NA4EA -10
              NA4EA KT1B RRR
              KT1B NA4EA TU 40W loop 73
              NA4EA KT1B TU 20W dip 73

              So what I found out from NA4EA is that he is in EN88, he is hearing me at 10 db down from the noise, with JT65 -10 is not a bad signal to noise ratio. You can work stations down to -25 or possibly weaker. He is using 40 watts into a loop antenna.


              Each of those transmissions takes 1 minute if you include the silent period.

              The transmissions are began at the top of the minute and your computer should be synced with a time server. You clock should be accurate to within a fraction of a second.

              I sync once per minute.

              A shortened version that I use goes like this.

              CQ KT1B FN42
              KT1B NA4EA EN88
              NA4EA KT1B -05
              KT1B NA4EA -10
              NA4EA KT1B 73
              KT1B NA4EA 73

              Now I don't have to wait another minute to send a CQ, it's my turn to transmit so I send another CQ.

              If you look above you will see that at the end of the longer contact, it will be the other person's turn to transmit when the contact is ended. This is because I was the last to transmit during the QSO.

              Of course I could and sometimes do tell the software to transmit on the opposite minute instead of waiting.

              You can have QSO after QSO and never touch the keyboard. All you need to do is click the mouse on the right button.

              I hope that is the kind of info you were looking for.

              I have not looked into what kind of encoding goes into a JT9 or 65 signal so I can't tell you exactly why they are so robust.

              Part of the reason is that you are transmitting very little info and using a lot of time to do it. Thus there is plenty of opportunity for redundancy.

              I hope that helps.

              Have a nice evening.

              73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA






















              To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
              From: w2jlb1@...
              Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:24:42 -0400
              Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

               

              Scott I know that JT-9 and JT-65 are NOT conversational modes. I assume that it verifies that you and the other station "hear" each other. Is that it?

              I know that you are knowledgeable about the JT modes. Can you post for my (and probably others) information just what happens during a JT "connection"
              ?

              73 - Joe W2JLB
              




            • Scott Currier
              You re welcome Joe, do you use any of the so called robust ragchew modes? I really like Contestia, near error free print under tough conditions. PSK31 is a
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 7, 2013
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                You're welcome Joe, do you use any of the so called "robust" ragchew modes?

                I really like Contestia, near error free print under tough conditions.

                PSK31 is a great mode but noise can give you a lot of errors. Contestia and other such modes eliminate those errors, or greatly reduce them.

                On the higher bands like 20 and up, it isn't too much of an issue.

                I find that on 30 and down, it is really nice to use Contestia or other robust mode and not deal with errors.

                Contestia has lots of modes so you can make it as fast as you can type and still be robust in noisy conditions.

                I've had a lot of fun with some rag chews longer than an hour on 30 meters using Contestia or Olivia.

                At any rate, it doesn't matter much which rag chew mode you use as long as the error rate is acceptable.

                Yes, there are lots of modes, something new to try.

                If you are in the mood to make contacts but don't feel like rag chewing, maybe you're trying for an award, the JT modes are good for that.

                They're also good because you can do other things while you work the JT modes.

                I am CQing on 30 JT65 while I am typing this message. 

                I just check the window every minute to see if anyone answers.

                Had the pleasure of working Robin tonite above 10.140 on JT65.

                So, maybe in the future you'll give it a try.

                Please let me know what rag chew modes you like and what bands.

                Also Joe, what software do you use?

                73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA

                 






















                To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                From: w2jlb1@...
                Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 19:59:59 -0400
                Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                 

                Scott thank you for the explanation. No I don't work JT-9 or 65. I'm a real rag chewer and this type of communications would not be my cup of tea. But thanks to you I understand it better what you guys are doing.

                This is another example of the "power" of amateur radio. There so many different things one can get involved with. Perhaps the day will come when I will again try something different. After all, it was one of those trying different things that bought me from SSB to CW. Then from CW to the HF digital modes.
                73 - Joe W2JLB
                
                On 8/7/2013 7:14 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                 

                Hi Joe, the JT modes aren't conversation modes because it's difficult to hold a conversation with a maximum of 13 characters per transmission and the fact that each transmission takes 50 seconds and there is a 10 second silent period after that.

                So while it is technically possible to have a conversation on JT65 or 9 it would be time consuming.

                I have made a lot of contacts on JT65 and some on JT9 but I am not an expert. I have not studied what makes the mode so darn good.

                I don't see you in my log so I'm guessing that you don't yet work JT65.

                I'm sure if you were active on the mode we would have crossed paths already.

                JT65 and JT9 are designed to make minimal contacts under the worst conditions.

                The information that you exchange are calls, signal reports, and usually a grid square.

                The contacts normally end with a 73 and quite often the 73 will include antenna type and power.

                Unlike most other modes, the software computes the signal to noise ratio and sends that as the signal report.

                A typical contact will go like this....

                CQ KT1B FN42    
                NA4EA KT1B EN88
                NA4EA KT1B -05
                KT1B NA4EA -10
                NA4EA KT1B RRR
                KT1B NA4EA TU 40W loop 73
                NA4EA KT1B TU 20W dip 73

                So what I found out from NA4EA is that he is in EN88, he is hearing me at 10 db down from the noise, with JT65 -10 is not a bad signal to noise ratio. You can work stations down to -25 or possibly weaker. He is using 40 watts into a loop antenna.


                Each of those transmissions takes 1 minute if you include the silent period.

                The transmissions are began at the top of the minute and your computer should be synced with a time server. You clock should be accurate to within a fraction of a second.

                I sync once per minute.

                A shortened version that I use goes like this.

                CQ KT1B FN42
                KT1B NA4EA EN88
                NA4EA KT1B -05
                KT1B NA4EA -10
                NA4EA KT1B 73
                KT1B NA4EA 73

                Now I don't have to wait another minute to send a CQ, it's my turn to transmit so I send another CQ.

                If you look above you will see that at the end of the longer contact, it will be the other person's turn to transmit when the contact is ended. This is because I was the last to transmit during the QSO.

                Of course I could and sometimes do tell the software to transmit on the opposite minute instead of waiting.

                You can have QSO after QSO and never touch the keyboard. All you need to do is click the mouse on the right button.

                I hope that is the kind of info you were looking for.

                I have not looked into what kind of encoding goes into a JT9 or 65 signal so I can't tell you exactly why they are so robust.

                Part of the reason is that you are transmitting very little info and using a lot of time to do it. Thus there is plenty of opportunity for redundancy.

                I hope that helps.

                Have a nice evening.

                73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA






















                To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                From: w2jlb1@...
                Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:24:42 -0400
                Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                 

                Scott I know that JT-9 and JT-65 are NOT conversational modes. I assume that it verifies that you and the other station "hear" each other. Is that it?

                I know that you are knowledgeable about the JT modes. Can you post for my (and probably others) information just what happens during a JT "connection"
                ?

                73 - Joe W2JLB
                





              • Joe Brown
                I use Contestia 8/250 pretty often it s almost as fast as PSK31. I also use Olivia 8/500 again, that s almost as fast as PSK31. If the bands are not too bad I
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 7, 2013
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                  I use Contestia 8/250 pretty often it's almost as fast as PSK31. I also use Olivia 8/500 again, that's almost as fast as PSK31. If the bands are not too bad I use MFSK-16 which is very fast but reliable especially on the higher bands. On very rare occasions I use PSK31. Usually when I get no response to my CQ after a long period.

                  I haven't had much success on 30 meters with any mode recently. Probably on there at the wrong time.

                  Have been working a lot of 17 meters and 20 meters. Late in the evening 40 meters. Most of my contacts have been upwards of 30 minutes. I once had an hour and ten minute QSO with a German station on 17 meters. Thank goodness his English was very good.


                  I have been using MixW since version 2.19. It's now at 3.1.1h. MixW had Contestia long before the other modes had it. I've tried HRD and Fldigi but find both of them lacking as well as too difficult to get running the way I wanted. It also seems like they are not as robust with some modes. Being a retired IT Professional I really gave them a chance.

                  I've done well with awards without really working towards them. I have WAS and WAC. Probably qualify for others but haven't checked recently. I use LoTW and am a great fan of paper QSL cards. I qualified for those awards using paper QSL cards.

                  73 - Joe W2JLB
                  








                  On 8/7/2013 8:26 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                   

                  You're welcome Joe, do you use any of the so called "robust" ragchew modes?

                  I really like Contestia, near error free print under tough conditions.

                  PSK31 is a great mode but noise can give you a lot of errors. Contestia and other such modes eliminate those errors, or greatly reduce them.

                  On the higher bands like 20 and up, it isn't too much of an issue.

                  I find that on 30 and down, it is really nice to use Contestia or other robust mode and not deal with errors.

                  Contestia has lots of modes so you can make it as fast as you can type and still be robust in noisy conditions.

                  I've had a lot of fun with some rag chews longer than an hour on 30 meters using Contestia or Olivia.

                  At any rate, it doesn't matter much which rag chew mode you use as long as the error rate is acceptable.

                  Yes, there are lots of modes, something new to try.

                  If you are in the mood to make contacts but don't feel like rag chewing, maybe you're trying for an award, the JT modes are good for that.

                  They're also good because you can do other things while you work the JT modes.

                  I am CQing on 30 JT65 while I am typing this message. 

                  I just check the window every minute to see if anyone answers.

                  Had the pleasure of working Robin tonite above 10.140 on JT65.

                  So, maybe in the future you'll give it a try.

                  Please let me know what rag chew modes you like and what bands.

                  Also Joe, what software do you use?

                  73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA

                   






















                  To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                  From: w2jlb1@...
                  Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 19:59:59 -0400
                  Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                   

                  Scott thank you for the explanation. No I don't work JT-9 or 65. I'm a real rag chewer and this type of communications would not be my cup of tea. But thanks to you I understand it better what you guys are doing.

                  This is another example of the "power" of amateur radio. There so many different things one can get involved with. Perhaps the day will come when I will again try something different. After all, it was one of those trying different things that bought me from SSB to CW. Then from CW to the HF digital modes.
                  73 - Joe W2JLB
                  
                  On 8/7/2013 7:14 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                   

                  Hi Joe, the JT modes aren't conversation modes because it's difficult to hold a conversation with a maximum of 13 characters per transmission and the fact that each transmission takes 50 seconds and there is a 10 second silent period after that.

                  So while it is technically possible to have a conversation on JT65 or 9 it would be time consuming.

                  I have made a lot of contacts on JT65 and some on JT9 but I am not an expert. I have not studied what makes the mode so darn good.

                  I don't see you in my log so I'm guessing that you don't yet work JT65.

                  I'm sure if you were active on the mode we would have crossed paths already.

                  JT65 and JT9 are designed to make minimal contacts under the worst conditions.

                  The information that you exchange are calls, signal reports, and usually a grid square.

                  The contacts normally end with a 73 and quite often the 73 will include antenna type and power.

                  Unlike most other modes, the software computes the signal to noise ratio and sends that as the signal report.

                  A typical contact will go like this....

                  CQ KT1B FN42    
                  NA4EA KT1B EN88
                  NA4EA KT1B -05
                  KT1B NA4EA -10
                  NA4EA KT1B RRR
                  KT1B NA4EA TU 40W loop 73
                  NA4EA KT1B TU 20W dip 73

                  So what I found out from NA4EA is that he is in EN88, he is hearing me at 10 db down from the noise, with JT65 -10 is not a bad signal to noise ratio. You can work stations down to -25 or possibly weaker. He is using 40 watts into a loop antenna.


                  Each of those transmissions takes 1 minute if you include the silent period.

                  The transmissions are began at the top of the minute and your computer should be synced with a time server. You clock should be accurate to within a fraction of a second.

                  I sync once per minute.

                  A shortened version that I use goes like this.

                  CQ KT1B FN42
                  KT1B NA4EA EN88
                  NA4EA KT1B -05
                  KT1B NA4EA -10
                  NA4EA KT1B 73
                  KT1B NA4EA 73

                  Now I don't have to wait another minute to send a CQ, it's my turn to transmit so I send another CQ.

                  If you look above you will see that at the end of the longer contact, it will be the other person's turn to transmit when the contact is ended. This is because I was the last to transmit during the QSO.

                  Of course I could and sometimes do tell the software to transmit on the opposite minute instead of waiting.

                  You can have QSO after QSO and never touch the keyboard. All you need to do is click the mouse on the right button.

                  I hope that is the kind of info you were looking for.

                  I have not looked into what kind of encoding goes into a JT9 or 65 signal so I can't tell you exactly why they are so robust.

                  Part of the reason is that you are transmitting very little info and using a lot of time to do it. Thus there is plenty of opportunity for redundancy.

                  I hope that helps.

                  Have a nice evening.

                  73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA






















                  To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                  From: w2jlb1@...
                  Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:24:42 -0400
                  Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                   

                  Scott I know that JT-9 and JT-65 are NOT conversational modes. I assume that it verifies that you and the other station "hear" each other. Is that it?

                  I know that you are knowledgeable about the JT modes. Can you post for my (and probably others) information just what happens during a JT "connection"
                  ?

                  73 - Joe W2JLB
                  






                • Scott Currier
                  Good afternoon Joe, thank you for the info. I have not used the ragchew digital modes in quite some time. I had been using DM780 which I found to work
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 8, 2013
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                    Good afternoon Joe, thank you for the info.
                     
                    I have not used the "ragchew" digital modes in quite some time. I had been using DM780 which I found to work reasonably well.
                     
                    Originally I started on PSK31 with Digipan. Compared with RTTY, PSK31 with Digipan was like a dream come true. A mode that actually worked well with low power.
                     
                    I had a lot of fun on 20 meters, just Cqing and working whoever answered me.
                     
                    I will get set back up with DM780, make sure it's working correctly, then maybe we can have a ragchew.
                     
                    According to QRZ, you're only 188 miles, from me, that may mean that 30 meters is going to be tough but we can try it.
                     
                    Otherwise  60, or 80 meters would work fine.
                     
                    I don't have a decent top band antenna right now. Probably this fall.
                     
                    I purchased a copy of MIXW a long time ago. Not sure if I can still find the registration info to put it on my current computer.
                     
                    DM780 overall has been adequate and I'll probably stick with that.
                     
                    If you want to have some fun with awards, recommend the 30mdg award system, I've had a lot of fun chasing those awards. If you haven't done so already, recommend downloading their U30 program and installing it.
                     
                    I also use LOTW, I upload to Eqsl as a courtesy to the stations that I work but never log into it to check what I have. It's not a bad service, I just don't have a need for it right now. LOTW is fine.

                    I just got a nice fat envelope from the bureau 2 days ago. I love getting cards in from the bureau. Got a new one. A31NI I think it was. New country for me. I was very pleased. Unfortunately they did not confirm via LOTW but the card is fine. A3 is the Republic of Tonga, I worked him on 40 CW.
                     
                    I'll let you know when I am setup on the "ragchew modes" and we can try a contact using the mode of your choice.
                     
                    73 and have a great day.
                     
                    Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                     




















                     

                    To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                    From: w2jlb1@...
                    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 21:25:00 -0400
                    Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                     
                    I use Contestia 8/250 pretty often it's almost as fast as PSK31. I also use Olivia 8/500 again, that's almost as fast as PSK31. If the bands are not too bad I use MFSK-16 which is very fast but reliable especially on the higher bands. On very rare occasions I use PSK31. Usually when I get no response to my CQ after a long period.

                    I haven't had much success on 30 meters with any mode recently. Probably on there at the wrong time.

                    Have been working a lot of 17 meters and 20 meters. Late in the evening 40 meters. Most of my contacts have been upwards of 30 minutes. I once had an hour and ten minute QSO with a German station on 17 meters. Thank goodness his English was very good.


                    I have been using MixW since version 2.19. It's now at 3.1.1h. MixW had Contestia long before the other modes had it. I've tried HRD and Fldigi but find both of them lacking as well as too difficult to get running the way I wanted. It also seems like they are not as robust with some modes. Being a retired IT Professional I really gave them a chance.

                    I've done well with awards without really working towards them. I have WAS and WAC. Probably qualify for others but haven't checked recently. I use LoTW and am a great fan of paper QSL cards. I qualified for those awards using paper QSL cards.

                    73 - Joe W2JLB
                    








                    On 8/7/2013 8:26 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                     


                    You're welcome Joe, do you use any of the so called "robust" ragchew modes?

                    I really like Contestia, near error free print under tough conditions.

                    PSK31 is a great mode but noise can give you a lot of errors. Contestia and other such modes eliminate those errors, or greatly reduce them.

                    On the higher bands like 20 and up, it isn't too much of an issue.

                    I find that on 30 and down, it is really nice to use Contestia or other robust mode and not deal with errors.

                    Contestia has lots of modes so you can make it as fast as you can type and still be robust in noisy conditions.

                    I've had a lot of fun with some rag chews longer than an hour on 30 meters using Contestia or Olivia.

                    At any rate, it doesn't matter much which rag chew mode you use as long as the error rate is acceptable.

                    Yes, there are lots of modes, something new to try.

                    If you are in the mood to make contacts but don't feel like rag chewing, maybe you're trying for an award, the JT modes are good for that.

                    They're also good because you can do other things while you work the JT modes.

                    I am CQing on 30 JT65 while I am typing this message. 

                    I just check the window every minute to see if anyone answers.

                    Had the pleasure of working Robin tonite above 10.140 on JT65.

                    So, maybe in the future you'll give it a try.

                    Please let me know what rag chew modes you like and what bands.

                    Also Joe, what software do you use?

                    73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA

                     






















                    To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                    From: w2jlb1@...
                    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 19:59:59 -0400
                    Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                     

                    Scott thank you for the explanation. No I don't work JT-9 or 65. I'm a real rag chewer and this type of communications would not be my cup of tea. But thanks to you I understand it better what you guys are doing.

                    This is another example of the "power" of amateur radio. There so many different things one can get involved with. Perhaps the day will come when I will again try something different. After all, it was one of those trying different things that bought me from SSB to CW. Then from CW to the HF digital modes.
                    73 - Joe W2JLB
                    
                    On 8/7/2013 7:14 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                     

                    Hi Joe, the JT modes aren't conversation modes because it's difficult to hold a conversation with a maximum of 13 characters per transmission and the fact that each transmission takes 50 seconds and there is a 10 second silent period after that.

                    So while it is technically possible to have a conversation on JT65 or 9 it would be time consuming.

                    I have made a lot of contacts on JT65 and some on JT9 but I am not an expert. I have not studied what makes the mode so darn good.

                    I don't see you in my log so I'm guessing that you don't yet work JT65.

                    I'm sure if you were active on the mode we would have crossed paths already.

                    JT65 and JT9 are designed to make minimal contacts under the worst conditions.

                    The information that you exchange are calls, signal reports, and usually a grid square.

                    The contacts normally end with a 73 and quite often the 73 will include antenna type and power.

                    Unlike most other modes, the software computes the signal to noise ratio and sends that as the signal report.

                    A typical contact will go like this....

                    CQ KT1B FN42    
                    NA4EA KT1B EN88
                    NA4EA KT1B -05
                    KT1B NA4EA -10
                    NA4EA KT1B RRR
                    KT1B NA4EA TU 40W loop 73
                    NA4EA KT1B TU 20W dip 73

                    So what I found out from NA4EA is that he is in EN88, he is hearing me at 10 db down from the noise, with JT65 -10 is not a bad signal to noise ratio. You can work stations down to -25 or possibly weaker. He is using 40 watts into a loop antenna.


                    Each of those transmissions takes 1 minute if you include the silent period.

                    The transmissions are began at the top of the minute and your computer should be synced with a time server. You clock should be accurate to within a fraction of a second.

                    I sync once per minute.

                    A shortened version that I use goes like this.

                    CQ KT1B FN42
                    KT1B NA4EA EN88
                    NA4EA KT1B -05
                    KT1B NA4EA -10
                    NA4EA KT1B 73
                    KT1B NA4EA 73

                    Now I don't have to wait another minute to send a CQ, it's my turn to transmit so I send another CQ.

                    If you look above you will see that at the end of the longer contact, it will be the other person's turn to transmit when the contact is ended. This is because I was the last to transmit during the QSO.

                    Of course I could and sometimes do tell the software to transmit on the opposite minute instead of waiting.

                    You can have QSO after QSO and never touch the keyboard. All you need to do is click the mouse on the right button.

                    I hope that is the kind of info you were looking for.

                    I have not looked into what kind of encoding goes into a JT9 or 65 signal so I can't tell you exactly why they are so robust.

                    Part of the reason is that you are transmitting very little info and using a lot of time to do it. Thus there is plenty of opportunity for redundancy.

                    I hope that helps.

                    Have a nice evening.

                    73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA






















                    To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                    From: w2jlb1@...
                    Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:24:42 -0400
                    Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                     

                    Scott I know that JT-9 and JT-65 are NOT conversational modes. I assume that it verifies that you and the other station "hear" each other. Is that it?

                    I know that you are knowledgeable about the JT modes. Can you post for my (and probably others) information just what happens during a JT "connection"
                    ?

                    73 - Joe W2JLB
                    







                  • ki5fj
                    Greetings Scott, I can operate 160-10 Meters. My 80-Meter Sloping Delta loop provides excellent results for regional QSOs. Drop an email and I will attempt a
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 8, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Greetings Scott,
                      I can operate 160-10 Meters.
                      My 80-Meter Sloping Delta loop provides excellent results for regional QSOs. Drop an email and I will attempt a sked.
                      For JT65A I use JT65A(HF) and for the others MixW.
                      73
                      Joe O
                      NNNN

                      --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Good afternoon Joe, thank you for the info.
                      >
                      > I have not used the "ragchew" digital modes in quite some time. I had been using DM780 which I found to work reasonably well.
                      >
                      > Originally I started on PSK31 with Digipan. Compared with RTTY, PSK31 with Digipan was like a dream come true. A mode that actually worked well with low power.
                      >
                      > I had a lot of fun on 20 meters, just Cqing and working whoever answered me.
                      >
                      > I will get set back up with DM780, make sure it's working correctly, then maybe we can have a ragchew.
                      >
                      > According to QRZ, you're only 188 miles, from me, that may mean that 30 meters is going to be tough but we can try it.
                      >
                      > Otherwise 60, or 80 meters would work fine.
                      >
                      > I don't have a decent top band antenna right now. Probably this fall.
                      >
                      > I purchased a copy of MIXW a long time ago. Not sure if I can still find the registration info to put it on my current computer.
                      >
                      > DM780 overall has been adequate and I'll probably stick with that.
                      >
                      > If you want to have some fun with awards, recommend the 30mdg award system, I've had a lot of fun chasing those awards. If you haven't done so already, recommend downloading their U30 program and installing it.
                      >
                      > I also use LOTW, I upload to Eqsl as a courtesy to the stations that I work but never log into it to check what I have. It's not a bad service, I just don't have a need for it right now. LOTW is fine.
                      >
                      > I just got a nice fat envelope from the bureau 2 days ago. I love getting cards in from the bureau. Got a new one. A31NI I think it was. New country for me. I was very pleased. Unfortunately they did not confirm via LOTW but the card is fine. A3 is the Republic of Tonga, I worked him on 40 CW.
                      >
                      > I'll let you know when I am setup on the "ragchew modes" and we can try a contact using the mode of your choice.
                      >
                      > 73 and have a great day.
                      >
                      > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: w2jlb1@...
                      > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 21:25:00 -0400
                      > Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I use
                      > Contestia 8/250 pretty often it's almost as fast as PSK31. I
                      > also use Olivia 8/500 again, that's almost as fast as PSK31. If
                      > the bands are not too bad I use MFSK-16 which is very fast but
                      > reliable especially on the higher bands. On very rare occasions
                      > I use PSK31. Usually when I get no response to my CQ after a
                      > long period.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I haven't had much success on 30 meters with any mode recently.
                      > Probably on there at the wrong time.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Have been working a lot of 17 meters and 20 meters. Late in the
                      > evening 40 meters. Most of my contacts have been upwards of 30
                      > minutes. I once had an hour and ten minute QSO with a German
                      > station on 17 meters. Thank goodness his English was very good.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I have been using MixW since version
                      > 2.19. It's now at 3.1.1h. MixW had Contestia long before the
                      > other modes had it. I've tried HRD and Fldigi but find both of
                      > them lacking as well as too difficult to get running the way I
                      > wanted. It also seems like they are not as robust with some
                      > modes. Being a retired IT Professional I really gave them a
                      > chance.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I've done well with awards without really working towards them.
                      > I have WAS and WAC. Probably qualify for others but haven't
                      > checked recently. I use LoTW and am a great fan of paper QSL
                      > cards. I qualified for those awards using paper QSL cards.
                      >
                      > 73 - Joe W2JLB
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On 8/7/2013 8:26 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > You're welcome Joe, do you use any of the so
                      > called "robust" ragchew modes?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I really like Contestia, near error free print under tough
                      > conditions.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > PSK31 is a great mode but noise can give you a lot of
                      > errors. Contestia and other such modes eliminate those
                      > errors, or greatly reduce them.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On the higher bands like 20 and up, it isn't too much of
                      > an issue.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I find that on 30 and down, it is really nice to use
                      > Contestia or other robust mode and not deal with errors.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Contestia has lots of modes so you can make it as fast as
                      > you can type and still be robust in noisy conditions.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I've had a lot of fun with some rag chews longer than an
                      > hour on 30 meters using Contestia or Olivia.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > At any rate, it doesn't matter much which rag chew mode
                      > you use as long as the error rate is acceptable.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yes, there are lots of modes, something new to try.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > If you are in the mood to make contacts but don't feel
                      > like rag chewing, maybe you're trying for an award, the JT
                      > modes are good for that.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > They're also good because you can do other things while
                      > you work the JT modes.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I am CQing on 30 JT65 while I am typing this message.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I just check the window every minute to see if anyone
                      > answers.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Had the pleasure of working Robin tonite above 10.140 on
                      > JT65.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > So, maybe in the future you'll give it a try.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Please let me know what rag chew modes you like and what
                      > bands.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Also Joe, what software do you use?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
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                      >
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > From: w2jlb1@...
                      >
                      > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 19:59:59 -0400
                      >
                      > Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Scott thank you for the
                      > explanation. No I don't work JT-9 or 65. I'm a
                      > real rag chewer and this type of
                      > communications would not be my cup of tea. But
                      > thanks to you I understand it better what you
                      > guys are doing.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > This is another example of the "power" of
                      > amateur radio. There so many different things
                      > one can get involved with. Perhaps the day
                      > will come when I will again try something
                      > different. After all, it was one of those
                      > trying different things that bought me from
                      > SSB to CW. Then from CW to the HF digital
                      > modes.
                      >
                      >
                      > 73 - Joe W2JLB
                      >
                      > On 8/7/2013 7:14 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Joe, the JT modes aren't
                      > conversation modes because it's difficult to
                      > hold a conversation with a maximum of 13
                      > characters per transmission and the fact
                      > that each transmission takes 50 seconds and
                      > there is a 10 second silent period after
                      > that.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > So while it is technically possible to have
                      > a conversation on JT65 or 9 it would be time
                      > consuming.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I have made a lot of contacts on JT65 and
                      > some on JT9 but I am not an expert. I have
                      > not studied what makes the mode so darn
                      > good.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I don't see you in my log so I'm guessing
                      > that you don't yet work JT65.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I'm sure if you were active on the mode we
                      > would have crossed paths already.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > JT65 and JT9 are designed to make minimal
                      > contacts under the worst conditions.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The information that you exchange are calls,
                      > signal reports, and usually a grid square.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The contacts normally end with a 73 and
                      > quite often the 73 will include antenna type
                      > and power.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Unlike most other modes, the software
                      > computes the signal to noise ratio and sends
                      > that as the signal report.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > A typical contact will go like this....
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > CQ KT1B FN42
                      >
                      > NA4EA KT1B EN88
                      >
                      > NA4EA KT1B -05
                      >
                      > KT1B NA4EA -10
                      >
                      > NA4EA KT1B RRR
                      >
                      > KT1B NA4EA TU 40W loop 73
                      >
                      > NA4EA KT1B TU 20W dip 73
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > So what I found out from NA4EA is that he is
                      > in EN88, he is hearing me at 10 db down from
                      > the noise, with JT65 -10 is not a bad signal
                      > to noise ratio. You can work stations down
                      > to -25 or possibly weaker. He is using 40
                      > watts into a loop antenna.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Each of those transmissions takes 1 minute
                      > if you include the silent period.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The transmissions are began at the top of
                      > the minute and your computer should be
                      > synced with a time server. You clock should
                      > be accurate to within a fraction of a
                      > second.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I sync once per minute.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > A shortened version that I use goes like
                      > this.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > CQ KT1B FN42
                      >
                      > KT1B NA4EA EN88
                      >
                      > NA4EA KT1B -05
                      >
                      > KT1B NA4EA -10
                      >
                      > NA4EA KT1B 73
                      >
                      > KT1B NA4EA 73
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Now I don't have to wait another minute to
                      > send a CQ, it's my turn to transmit so I
                      > send another CQ.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > If you look above you will see that at the
                      > end of the longer contact, it will be the
                      > other person's turn to transmit when the
                      > contact is ended. This is because I was the
                      > last to transmit during the QSO.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Of course I could and sometimes do tell the
                      > software to transmit on the opposite minute
                      > instead of waiting.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > You can have QSO after QSO and never touch
                      > the keyboard. All you need to do is click
                      > the mouse on the right button.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I hope that is the kind of info you were
                      > looking for.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I have not looked into what kind of encoding
                      > goes into a JT9 or 65 signal so I can't tell
                      > you exactly why they are so robust.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Part of the reason is that you are
                      > transmitting very little info and using a
                      > lot of time to do it. Thus there is plenty
                      > of opportunity for redundancy.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I hope that helps.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Have a nice evening.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
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                      >
                      >
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                      >
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > From: w2jlb1@...
                      >
                      > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:24:42 -0400
                      >
                      > Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Scott I
                      > know that JT-9 and JT-65 are NOT
                      > conversational modes. I assume
                      > that it verifies that you and
                      > the other station "hear" each
                      > other. Is that it?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I know that you are
                      > knowledgeable about the JT
                      > modes. Can you post for my (and
                      > probably others) information
                      > just what happens during a JT
                      > "connection"?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 73 - Joe W2JLB
                      >
                    • Scott Currier
                      Thank you Joe. That sounds good. Contestia 500/16 looks to be a good choice as far as the ability to deal with noise. Not sure how slow that is. Here is a link
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 8, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thank you Joe. That sounds good.
                         
                        Contestia 500/16 looks to be a good choice as far as the ability to deal with noise. Not sure how slow that is.
                         
                        Here is a link to an interesting article.
                         
                        http://wz7i.com/digital-modes.html
                         
                        73 and have a nice evening.
                         
                        Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                         





















                         

                        To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                        From: jen1joeo@...
                        Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 19:50:14 +0000
                        Subject: [30MDG] Re: The varied modes

                         
                        Greetings Scott,
                        I can operate 160-10 Meters.
                        My 80-Meter Sloping Delta loop provides excellent results for regional QSOs. Drop an email and I will attempt a sked.
                        For JT65A I use JT65A(HF) and for the others MixW.
                        73
                        Joe O
                        NNNN

                        --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Good afternoon Joe, thank you for the info.
                        >
                        > I have not used the "ragchew" digital modes in quite some time. I had been using DM780 which I found to work reasonably well.
                        >
                        > Originally I started on PSK31 with Digipan. Compared with RTTY, PSK31 with Digipan was like a dream come true. A mode that actually worked well with low power.
                        >
                        > I had a lot of fun on 20 meters, just Cqing and working whoever answered me.
                        >
                        > I will get set back up with DM780, make sure it's working correctly, then maybe we can have a ragchew.
                        >
                        > According to QRZ, you're only 188 miles, from me, that may mean that 30 meters is going to be tough but we can try it.
                        >
                        > Otherwise 60, or 80 meters would work fine.
                        >
                        > I don't have a decent top band antenna right now. Probably this fall.
                        >
                        > I purchased a copy of MIXW a long time ago. Not sure if I can still find the registration info to put it on my current computer.
                        >
                        > DM780 overall has been adequate and I'll probably stick with that.
                        >
                        > If you want to have some fun with awards, recommend the 30mdg award system, I've had a lot of fun chasing those awards. If you haven't done so already, recommend downloading their U30 program and installing it.
                        >
                        > I also use LOTW, I upload to Eqsl as a courtesy to the stations that I work but never log into it to check what I have. It's not a bad service, I just don't have a need for it right now. LOTW is fine.
                        >
                        > I just got a nice fat envelope from the bureau 2 days ago. I love getting cards in from the bureau. Got a new one. A31NI I think it was. New country for me. I was very pleased. Unfortunately they did not confirm via LOTW but the card is fine. A3 is the Republic of Tonga, I worked him on 40 CW.
                        >
                        > I'll let you know when I am setup on the "ragchew modes" and we can try a contact using the mode of your choice.
                        >
                        > 73 and have a great day.
                        >
                        > Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                        > From: w2jlb1@...
                        > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 21:25:00 -0400
                        > Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I use
                        > Contestia 8/250 pretty often it's almost as fast as PSK31. I
                        > also use Olivia 8/500 again, that's almost as fast as PSK31. If
                        > the bands are not too bad I use MFSK-16 which is very fast but
                        > reliable especially on the higher bands. On very rare occasions
                        > I use PSK31. Usually when I get no response to my CQ after a
                        > long period.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I haven't had much success on 30 meters with any mode recently.
                        > Probably on there at the wrong time.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Have been working a lot of 17 meters and 20 meters. Late in the
                        > evening 40 meters. Most of my contacts have been upwards of 30
                        > minutes. I once had an hour and ten minute QSO with a German
                        > station on 17 meters. Thank goodness his English was very good.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I have been using MixW since version
                        > 2.19. It's now at 3.1.1h. MixW had Contestia long before the
                        > other modes had it. I've tried HRD and Fldigi but find both of
                        > them lacking as well as too difficult to get running the way I
                        > wanted. It also seems like they are not as robust with some
                        > modes. Being a retired IT Professional I really gave them a
                        > chance.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I've done well with awards without really working towards them.
                        > I have WAS and WAC. Probably qualify for others but haven't
                        > checked recently. I use LoTW and am a great fan of paper QSL
                        > cards. I qualified for those awards using paper QSL cards.
                        >
                        > 73 - Joe W2JLB
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On 8/7/2013 8:26 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > You're welcome Joe, do you use any of the so
                        > called "robust" ragchew modes?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I really like Contestia, near error free print under tough
                        > conditions.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > PSK31 is a great mode but noise can give you a lot of
                        > errors. Contestia and other such modes eliminate those
                        > errors, or greatly reduce them.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On the higher bands like 20 and up, it isn't too much of
                        > an issue.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I find that on 30 and down, it is really nice to use
                        > Contestia or other robust mode and not deal with errors.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Contestia has lots of modes so you can make it as fast as
                        > you can type and still be robust in noisy conditions.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I've had a lot of fun with some rag chews longer than an
                        > hour on 30 meters using Contestia or Olivia.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > At any rate, it doesn't matter much which rag chew mode
                        > you use as long as the error rate is acceptable.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yes, there are lots of modes, something new to try.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > If you are in the mood to make contacts but don't feel
                        > like rag chewing, maybe you're trying for an award, the JT
                        > modes are good for that.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > They're also good because you can do other things while
                        > you work the JT modes.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I am CQing on 30 JT65 while I am typing this message.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I just check the window every minute to see if anyone
                        > answers.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Had the pleasure of working Robin tonite above 10.140 on
                        > JT65.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > So, maybe in the future you'll give it a try.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Please let me know what rag chew modes you like and what
                        > bands.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Also Joe, what software do you use?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > From: w2jlb1@...
                        >
                        > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 19:59:59 -0400
                        >
                        > Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Scott thank you for the
                        > explanation. No I don't work JT-9 or 65. I'm a
                        > real rag chewer and this type of
                        > communications would not be my cup of tea. But
                        > thanks to you I understand it better what you
                        > guys are doing.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > This is another example of the "power" of
                        > amateur radio. There so many different things
                        > one can get involved with. Perhaps the day
                        > will come when I will again try something
                        > different. After all, it was one of those
                        > trying different things that bought me from
                        > SSB to CW. Then from CW to the HF digital
                        > modes.
                        >
                        >
                        > 73 - Joe W2JLB
                        >
                        > On 8/7/2013 7:14 PM, Scott Currier wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Joe, the JT modes aren't
                        > conversation modes because it's difficult to
                        > hold a conversation with a maximum of 13
                        > characters per transmission and the fact
                        > that each transmission takes 50 seconds and
                        > there is a 10 second silent period after
                        > that.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > So while it is technically possible to have
                        > a conversation on JT65 or 9 it would be time
                        > consuming.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I have made a lot of contacts on JT65 and
                        > some on JT9 but I am not an expert. I have
                        > not studied what makes the mode so darn
                        > good.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I don't see you in my log so I'm guessing
                        > that you don't yet work JT65.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I'm sure if you were active on the mode we
                        > would have crossed paths already.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > JT65 and JT9 are designed to make minimal
                        > contacts under the worst conditions.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The information that you exchange are calls,
                        > signal reports, and usually a grid square.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The contacts normally end with a 73 and
                        > quite often the 73 will include antenna type
                        > and power.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Unlike most other modes, the software
                        > computes the signal to noise ratio and sends
                        > that as the signal report.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > A typical contact will go like this....
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > CQ KT1B FN42
                        >
                        > NA4EA KT1B EN88
                        >
                        > NA4EA KT1B -05
                        >
                        > KT1B NA4EA -10
                        >
                        > NA4EA KT1B RRR
                        >
                        > KT1B NA4EA TU 40W loop 73
                        >
                        > NA4EA KT1B TU 20W dip 73
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > So what I found out from NA4EA is that he is
                        > in EN88, he is hearing me at 10 db down from
                        > the noise, with JT65 -10 is not a bad signal
                        > to noise ratio. You can work stations down
                        > to -25 or possibly weaker. He is using 40
                        > watts into a loop antenna.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Each of those transmissions takes 1 minute
                        > if you include the silent period.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > The transmissions are began at the top of
                        > the minute and your computer should be
                        > synced with a time server. You clock should
                        > be accurate to within a fraction of a
                        > second.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I sync once per minute.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > A shortened version that I use goes like
                        > this.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > CQ KT1B FN42
                        >
                        > KT1B NA4EA EN88
                        >
                        > NA4EA KT1B -05
                        >
                        > KT1B NA4EA -10
                        >
                        > NA4EA KT1B 73
                        >
                        > KT1B NA4EA 73
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Now I don't have to wait another minute to
                        > send a CQ, it's my turn to transmit so I
                        > send another CQ.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > If you look above you will see that at the
                        > end of the longer contact, it will be the
                        > other person's turn to transmit when the
                        > contact is ended. This is because I was the
                        > last to transmit during the QSO.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Of course I could and sometimes do tell the
                        > software to transmit on the opposite minute
                        > instead of waiting.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > You can have QSO after QSO and never touch
                        > the keyboard. All you need to do is click
                        > the mouse on the right button.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I hope that is the kind of info you were
                        > looking for.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I have not looked into what kind of encoding
                        > goes into a JT9 or 65 signal so I can't tell
                        > you exactly why they are so robust.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Part of the reason is that you are
                        > transmitting very little info and using a
                        > lot of time to do it. Thus there is plenty
                        > of opportunity for redundancy.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I hope that helps.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Have a nice evening.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > From: w2jlb1@...
                        >
                        > Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:24:42 -0400
                        >
                        > Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Scott I
                        > know that JT-9 and JT-65 are NOT
                        > conversational modes. I assume
                        > that it verifies that you and
                        > the other station "hear" each
                        > other. Is that it?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I know that you are
                        > knowledgeable about the JT
                        > modes. Can you post for my (and
                        > probably others) information
                        > just what happens during a JT
                        > "connection"?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > 73 - Joe W2JLB
                        >


                      • Don Leitch
                        Scott mixw registration has changed now . your call is stored on the data base, mix w checks online, I do have the newest version and that s a few years old
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 8, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment

                          Scott mixw registration has changed now . your call is stored on the data base, mix w checks online, I do have the newest version  and that's a few years old now though. I only bought it because dm780  wouldn't do FSK and I was unable to use the icoms filters.

                          Don zl1atb

                           

                          From: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:30MDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Currier
                          Sent: Friday, 9 August 2013 4:50 a.m.
                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [30MDG] The varied modes

                           

                           

                          Good afternoon Joe, thank you for the info.
                           
                          I have not used the "ragchew" digital modes in quite some time. I had been using DM780 which I found to work reasonably well.
                           
                          Originally I started on PSK31 with Digipan. Compared with RTTY, PSK31 with Digipan was like a dream come true. A mode that actually worked well with low power.
                           
                          I had a lot of fun on 20 meters, just Cqing and working whoever answered me.
                           
                          I will get set back up with DM780, make sure it's working correctly, then maybe we can have a ragchew.
                           
                          According to QRZ, you're only 188 miles, from me, that may mean that 30 meters is going to be tough but we can try it.
                           
                          Otherwise  60, or 80 meters would work fine.
                           
                          I don't have a decent top band antenna right now. Probably this fall.
                           
                          I purchased a copy of MIXW a long time ago. Not sure if I can still find the registration info to put it on my current computer.
                           
                          DM780 overall has been adequate and I'll probably stick with that.
                           
                          If you want to have some fun with awards, recommend the 30mdg award system, I've had a lot of fun chasing those awards. If you haven't done so already, recommend downloading their U30 program and installing it.
                           
                          I also use LOTW, I upload to Eqsl as a courtesy to the stations that I work but never log into it to check what I have. It's not a bad service, I just don't have a need for it right now. LOTW is fine.

                          I just got a nice fat envelope from the bureau 2 days ago. I love getting cards in from the bureau. Got a new one. A31NI I think it was. New country for me. I was very pleased. Unfortunately they did not confirm via LOTW but the card is fine. A3 is the Republic of Tonga, I worked him on 40 CW.
                           
                          I'll let you know when I am setup on the "ragchew modes" and we can try a contact using the mode of your choice.
                           
                          73 and have a great day.
                           
                          Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                           




















                           


                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                          From: w2jlb1@...
                          Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 21:25:00 -0400
                          Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                           

                          I use Contestia 8/250 pretty often it's almost as fast as PSK31. I also use Olivia 8/500 again, that's almost as fast as PSK31. If the bands are not too bad I use MFSK-16 which is very fast but reliable especially on the higher bands. On very rare occasions I use PSK31. Usually when I get no response to my CQ after a long period.

                          I haven't had much success on 30 meters with any mode recently. Probably on there at the wrong time.

                          Have been working a lot of 17 meters and 20 meters. Late in the evening 40 meters. Most of my contacts have been upwards of 30 minutes. I once had an hour and ten minute QSO with a German station on 17 meters. Thank goodness his English was very good.


                          I have been using MixW since version 2.19. It's now at 3.1.1h. MixW had Contestia long before the other modes had it. I've tried HRD and Fldigi but find both of them lacking as well as too difficult to get running the way I wanted. It also seems like they are not as robust with some modes. Being a retired IT Professional I really gave them a chance.

                          I've done well with awards without really working towards them. I have WAS and WAC. Probably qualify for others but haven't checked recently. I use LoTW and am a great fan of paper QSL cards. I qualified for those awards using paper QSL cards.

                          73 - Joe W2JLB









                          On 8/7/2013 8:26 PM, Scott Currier wrote:

                           

                           

                          You're welcome Joe, do you use any of the so called "robust" ragchew modes?

                          I really like Contestia, near error free print under tough conditions.

                          PSK31 is a great mode but noise can give you a lot of errors. Contestia and other such modes eliminate those errors, or greatly reduce them.

                          On the higher bands like 20 and up, it isn't too much of an issue.

                          I find that on 30 and down, it is really nice to use Contestia or other robust mode and not deal with errors.

                          Contestia has lots of modes so you can make it as fast as you can type and still be robust in noisy conditions.

                          I've had a lot of fun with some rag chews longer than an hour on 30 meters using Contestia or Olivia.

                          At any rate, it doesn't matter much which rag chew mode you use as long as the error rate is acceptable.

                          Yes, there are lots of modes, something new to try.

                          If you are in the mood to make contacts but don't feel like rag chewing, maybe you're trying for an award, the JT modes are good for that.

                          They're also good because you can do other things while you work the JT modes.

                          I am CQing on 30 JT65 while I am typing this message. 

                          I just check the window every minute to see if anyone answers.

                          Had the pleasure of working Robin tonite above 10.140 on JT65.

                          So, maybe in the future you'll give it a try.

                          Please let me know what rag chew modes you like and what bands.

                          Also Joe, what software do you use?

                          73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA

                           





















                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                          From: w2jlb1@...
                          Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 19:59:59 -0400
                          Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                           

                           

                          Scott thank you for the explanation. No I don't work JT-9 or 65. I'm a real rag chewer and this type of communications would not be my cup of tea. But thanks to you I understand it better what you guys are doing.

                          This is another example of the "power" of amateur radio. There so many different things one can get involved with. Perhaps the day will come when I will again try something different. After all, it was one of those trying different things that bought me from SSB to CW. Then from CW to the HF digital modes.

                          73 - Joe W2JLB

                          On 8/7/2013 7:14 PM, Scott Currier wrote:

                           

                           

                          Hi Joe, the JT modes aren't conversation modes because it's difficult to hold a conversation with a maximum of 13 characters per transmission and the fact that each transmission takes 50 seconds and there is a 10 second silent period after that.

                          So while it is technically possible to have a conversation on JT65 or 9 it would be time consuming.

                          I have made a lot of contacts on JT65 and some on JT9 but I am not an expert. I have not studied what makes the mode so darn good.

                          I don't see you in my log so I'm guessing that you don't yet work JT65.

                          I'm sure if you were active on the mode we would have crossed paths already.

                          JT65 and JT9 are designed to make minimal contacts under the worst conditions.

                          The information that you exchange are calls, signal reports, and usually a grid square.

                          The contacts normally end with a 73 and quite often the 73 will include antenna type and power.

                          Unlike most other modes, the software computes the signal to noise ratio and sends that as the signal report.

                          A typical contact will go like this....

                          CQ KT1B FN42    
                          NA4EA KT1B EN88
                          NA4EA KT1B -05
                          KT1B NA4EA -10
                          NA4EA KT1B RRR
                          KT1B NA4EA TU 40W loop 73
                          NA4EA KT1B TU 20W dip 73

                          So what I found out from NA4EA is that he is in EN88, he is hearing me at 10 db down from the noise, with JT65 -10 is not a bad signal to noise ratio. You can work stations down to -25 or possibly weaker. He is using 40 watts into a loop antenna.


                          Each of those transmissions takes 1 minute if you include the silent period.

                          The transmissions are began at the top of the minute and your computer should be synced with a time server. You clock should be accurate to within a fraction of a second.

                          I sync once per minute.

                          A shortened version that I use goes like this.

                          CQ KT1B FN42
                          KT1B NA4EA EN88
                          NA4EA KT1B -05
                          KT1B NA4EA -10
                          NA4EA KT1B 73
                          KT1B NA4EA 73

                          Now I don't have to wait another minute to send a CQ, it's my turn to transmit so I send another CQ.

                          If you look above you will see that at the end of the longer contact, it will be the other person's turn to transmit when the contact is ended. This is because I was the last to transmit during the QSO.

                          Of course I could and sometimes do tell the software to transmit on the opposite minute instead of waiting.

                          You can have QSO after QSO and never touch the keyboard. All you need to do is click the mouse on the right button.

                          I hope that is the kind of info you were looking for.

                          I have not looked into what kind of encoding goes into a JT9 or 65 signal so I can't tell you exactly why they are so robust.

                          Part of the reason is that you are transmitting very little info and using a lot of time to do it. Thus there is plenty of opportunity for redundancy.

                          I hope that helps.

                          Have a nice evening.

                          73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA





















                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                          From: w2jlb1@...
                          Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:24:42 -0400
                          Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                           

                           

                          Scott I know that JT-9 and JT-65 are NOT conversational modes. I assume that it verifies that you and the other station "hear" each other. Is that it?

                          I know that you are knowledgeable about the JT modes. Can you post for my (and probably others) information just what happens during a JT "connection"
                          ?

                          73 - Joe W2JLB

                           

                           

                           

                           

                        • Scott Currier
                          Thanks Don, that will make re-registering the software a breeze. Hope your weather is getting warmer and that your winter wasn t too bad. 73 and good dx Scott
                          Message 12 of 12 , Aug 10, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks Don, that will make re-registering the software a breeze.

                            Hope your weather is getting warmer and that your winter wasn't too bad.

                            73 and good dx

                            Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA






















                            To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                            From: don@...
                            Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 08:49:51 +1200
                            Subject: RE: [30MDG] The varied modes

                             

                            Scott mixw registration has changed now . your call is stored on the data base, mix w checks online, I do have the newest version  and that's a few years old now though. I only bought it because dm780  wouldn't do FSK and I was unable to use the icoms filters.

                            Don zl1atb

                             

                            From: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:30MDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Currier
                            Sent: Friday, 9 August 2013 4:50 a.m.
                            To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [30MDG] The varied modes

                             

                             

                            Good afternoon Joe, thank you for the info.
                             
                            I have not used the "ragchew" digital modes in quite some time. I had been using DM780 which I found to work reasonably well.
                             
                            Originally I started on PSK31 with Digipan. Compared with RTTY, PSK31 with Digipan was like a dream come true. A mode that actually worked well with low power.
                             
                            I had a lot of fun on 20 meters, just Cqing and working whoever answered me.
                             
                            I will get set back up with DM780, make sure it's working correctly, then maybe we can have a ragchew.
                             
                            According to QRZ, you're only 188 miles, from me, that may mean that 30 meters is going to be tough but we can try it.
                             
                            Otherwise  60, or 80 meters would work fine.
                             
                            I don't have a decent top band antenna right now. Probably this fall.
                             
                            I purchased a copy of MIXW a long time ago. Not sure if I can still find the registration info to put it on my current computer.
                             
                            DM780 overall has been adequate and I'll probably stick with that.
                             
                            If you want to have some fun with awards, recommend the 30mdg award system, I've had a lot of fun chasing those awards. If you haven't done so already, recommend downloading their U30 program and installing it.
                             
                            I also use LOTW, I upload to Eqsl as a courtesy to the stations that I work but never log into it to check what I have. It's not a bad service, I just don't have a need for it right now. LOTW is fine.

                            I just got a nice fat envelope from the bureau 2 days ago. I love getting cards in from the bureau. Got a new one. A31NI I think it was. New country for me. I was very pleased. Unfortunately they did not confirm via LOTW but the card is fine. A3 is the Republic of Tonga, I worked him on 40 CW.
                             
                            I'll let you know when I am setup on the "ragchew modes" and we can try a contact using the mode of your choice.
                             
                            73 and have a great day.
                             
                            Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
                             




















                             


                            To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                            From: w2jlb1@...
                            Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 21:25:00 -0400
                            Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                             

                            I use Contestia 8/250 pretty often it's almost as fast as PSK31. I also use Olivia 8/500 again, that's almost as fast as PSK31. If the bands are not too bad I use MFSK-16 which is very fast but reliable especially on the higher bands. On very rare occasions I use PSK31. Usually when I get no response to my CQ after a long period.

                            I haven't had much success on 30 meters with any mode recently. Probably on there at the wrong time.

                            Have been working a lot of 17 meters and 20 meters. Late in the evening 40 meters. Most of my contacts have been upwards of 30 minutes. I once had an hour and ten minute QSO with a German station on 17 meters. Thank goodness his English was very good.


                            I have been using MixW since version 2.19. It's now at 3.1.1h. MixW had Contestia long before the other modes had it. I've tried HRD and Fldigi but find both of them lacking as well as too difficult to get running the way I wanted. It also seems like they are not as robust with some modes. Being a retired IT Professional I really gave them a chance.

                            I've done well with awards without really working towards them. I have WAS and WAC. Probably qualify for others but haven't checked recently. I use LoTW and am a great fan of paper QSL cards. I qualified for those awards using paper QSL cards.

                            73 - Joe W2JLB









                            On 8/7/2013 8:26 PM, Scott Currier wrote:

                             

                             

                            You're welcome Joe, do you use any of the so called "robust" ragchew modes?

                            I really like Contestia, near error free print under tough conditions.

                            PSK31 is a great mode but noise can give you a lot of errors. Contestia and other such modes eliminate those errors, or greatly reduce them.

                            On the higher bands like 20 and up, it isn't too much of an issue.

                            I find that on 30 and down, it is really nice to use Contestia or other robust mode and not deal with errors.

                            Contestia has lots of modes so you can make it as fast as you can type and still be robust in noisy conditions.

                            I've had a lot of fun with some rag chews longer than an hour on 30 meters using Contestia or Olivia.

                            At any rate, it doesn't matter much which rag chew mode you use as long as the error rate is acceptable.

                            Yes, there are lots of modes, something new to try.

                            If you are in the mood to make contacts but don't feel like rag chewing, maybe you're trying for an award, the JT modes are good for that.

                            They're also good because you can do other things while you work the JT modes.

                            I am CQing on 30 JT65 while I am typing this message. 

                            I just check the window every minute to see if anyone answers.

                            Had the pleasure of working Robin tonite above 10.140 on JT65.

                            So, maybe in the future you'll give it a try.

                            Please let me know what rag chew modes you like and what bands.

                            Also Joe, what software do you use?

                            73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA

                             





















                            To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                            From: w2jlb1@...
                            Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 19:59:59 -0400
                            Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                             

                             

                            Scott thank you for the explanation. No I don't work JT-9 or 65. I'm a real rag chewer and this type of communications would not be my cup of tea. But thanks to you I understand it better what you guys are doing.

                            This is another example of the "power" of amateur radio. There so many different things one can get involved with. Perhaps the day will come when I will again try something different. After all, it was one of those trying different things that bought me from SSB to CW. Then from CW to the HF digital modes.

                            73 - Joe W2JLB

                            On 8/7/2013 7:14 PM, Scott Currier wrote:

                             

                             

                            Hi Joe, the JT modes aren't conversation modes because it's difficult to hold a conversation with a maximum of 13 characters per transmission and the fact that each transmission takes 50 seconds and there is a 10 second silent period after that.

                            So while it is technically possible to have a conversation on JT65 or 9 it would be time consuming.

                            I have made a lot of contacts on JT65 and some on JT9 but I am not an expert. I have not studied what makes the mode so darn good.

                            I don't see you in my log so I'm guessing that you don't yet work JT65.

                            I'm sure if you were active on the mode we would have crossed paths already.

                            JT65 and JT9 are designed to make minimal contacts under the worst conditions.

                            The information that you exchange are calls, signal reports, and usually a grid square.

                            The contacts normally end with a 73 and quite often the 73 will include antenna type and power.

                            Unlike most other modes, the software computes the signal to noise ratio and sends that as the signal report.

                            A typical contact will go like this....

                            CQ KT1B FN42    
                            NA4EA KT1B EN88
                            NA4EA KT1B -05
                            KT1B NA4EA -10
                            NA4EA KT1B RRR
                            KT1B NA4EA TU 40W loop 73
                            NA4EA KT1B TU 20W dip 73

                            So what I found out from NA4EA is that he is in EN88, he is hearing me at 10 db down from the noise, with JT65 -10 is not a bad signal to noise ratio. You can work stations down to -25 or possibly weaker. He is using 40 watts into a loop antenna.


                            Each of those transmissions takes 1 minute if you include the silent period.

                            The transmissions are began at the top of the minute and your computer should be synced with a time server. You clock should be accurate to within a fraction of a second.

                            I sync once per minute.

                            A shortened version that I use goes like this.

                            CQ KT1B FN42
                            KT1B NA4EA EN88
                            NA4EA KT1B -05
                            KT1B NA4EA -10
                            NA4EA KT1B 73
                            KT1B NA4EA 73

                            Now I don't have to wait another minute to send a CQ, it's my turn to transmit so I send another CQ.

                            If you look above you will see that at the end of the longer contact, it will be the other person's turn to transmit when the contact is ended. This is because I was the last to transmit during the QSO.

                            Of course I could and sometimes do tell the software to transmit on the opposite minute instead of waiting.

                            You can have QSO after QSO and never touch the keyboard. All you need to do is click the mouse on the right button.

                            I hope that is the kind of info you were looking for.

                            I have not looked into what kind of encoding goes into a JT9 or 65 signal so I can't tell you exactly why they are so robust.

                            Part of the reason is that you are transmitting very little info and using a lot of time to do it. Thus there is plenty of opportunity for redundancy.

                            I hope that helps.

                            Have a nice evening.

                            73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA





















                            To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                            From: w2jlb1@...
                            Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2013 15:24:42 -0400
                            Subject: Re: [30MDG] The varied modes

                             

                             

                            Scott I know that JT-9 and JT-65 are NOT conversational modes. I assume that it verifies that you and the other station "hear" each other. Is that it?

                            I know that you are knowledgeable about the JT modes. Can you post for my (and probably others) information just what happens during a JT "connection"
                            ?

                            73 - Joe W2JLB

                             

                             

                             

                             


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