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Re: [30MDG] RE: JT65A and JT9 frequencies on 30 meters

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  • W. J. Karle
    Scott and All, Well, two reasons that digimode operators do not need a lot of spectrum are: a.)  We efficiently use the spectrum that we have; and, b.)
    Message 1 of 912 , Jul 13, 2013
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      Scott and All,

      Well, two reasons that digimode operators do not need a lot of spectrum are:

      a.)  We efficiently use the spectrum that we have; and,
      b.)  Presently, there are not many of us.

      We gradually are adopting other narrow modes (e.g.:  JT-9) improving efficiency.

      On the other hand, our numbers have continued to increase in the period 2005, when I first became digitally active, and now.

      I suppose, given enough data (ahem), we could plot these variables showing change of bandwidth per user and change in total occupied bandwidth and thus estimate when and how much bandwidth would be needed.

      That being said, I am concerned about too much regulation, self-imposed or otherwise.  It stymies inventiveness because it enshrines a status quo that is anachronistic.

      Is there a solution?  Watering holes work but we have to ask if we must hang around a watering hole.  Perhaps the calling frequency approach followed by QSY to a working frequency will work given the robustness of our digital demod programs.  The band would be multimodal rather than segregated by mode.

      73,

      Bill

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      W. J. (Bill) Karle, VE4KZ
      Radio Amateurs of Canada -- Maple Leaf Operator Member
      Amateur Radio Emergency Service -- Certified Emergency Coordinator

      From: Scott Currier <scott_currier@...>
      To: "30MDG@yahoogroups.com" <30mdg@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 1:17:38 AM
      Subject: RE: [30MDG] RE: JT65A and JT9 frequencies on 30 meters



      Greetings all, forgive me for saying this, but any bandplan that allows for only 10 kHz of spectrum for digital space on a 50 kHz wide band should be ignored.

      However, I am open to the possibility that I am overlooking something. Can anyone think of a good reason why digital isn't entitled to at least 20 kHz of spectrum on a 50 kHz band?

      As a CW op, I feel no need for more than 25 kHz of space on 30 meters.

      73 all and I hope you have a good weekend.

      Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA



      To: 30mdg@yahoogroups.com
      From: robin_a_hodgson@...


      Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 08:56:40 +0200
      Subject: RE: [30MDG] RE: JT65A and JT9 frequencies on 30 meters

       

      Thanks for the info Don.
      So, it looks as if the ZL and VK administrations are ignoring the IARU regional bandplan.
      Not unexpected;  the authorities do that in most countries!
      But what about the rules of the IARU affiliated Amateur Radio societies in those countries?

      Robin, 9H1ZZ

      To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
      From: don@...
      Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 08:57:55 +1200
      Subject: RE: [30MDG] RE: JT65A and JT9 frequencies on 30 meters

       

      I am region 3 Robin and our 30 meter band plan says cw or   modes less than 1 KHz below 140,  and  vk have ssb below 130 .
      I would love to get  down a little for  jt65 and get away from the wide band marine pactor that's driving me nuts on 138.00, I even hear marine pactor on 10.103, and that's hams  doing it.
      How they get away with it I have no idea.
      Don zl1atb
       
      From: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:30MDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robin Hodgson
      Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2013 9:56 p.m.
      To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [30MDG] RE: JT65A and JT9 frequencies on 30 meters
       
       
      Hi Scott,
      It is encouraging to see that there may be an interest in moving the JT frequencies on 30 meters.

      Those in  Region 2 may not realise the situation for digimode operators which exists for Region 1 and Region 3.
      The ITU allocates 10.100 to 10.150 MHz for Amateur Radio  on a secondary basis world-wide .
      However the IARU has allowed each region to define its own bandplan independently.
      Unfortunately for users of 30 meters, these regional bandplans are not well co-ordinated world-wide.

      Region 1: Digimodes (narrow band) are only permitted to transmit on frequencies above 10.140 MHz
      Region 2: Digimodes (narrow band) are only permitted to transmit on frequencies above 10.130 MHz
      Region 3: Digimodes (narrow band) are only permitted to transmit on frequencies above 10.140 MHz

      Therefore on 30 meters, any JT65A (dial 10.138 MHz) or JT9 (dial 10.130 MHz) QSO,
      where at least one station is in Region 1 or Region 3, is operating outside the IARU rules.
      So what?  . . . .
      Well I guess for any IARU recognised award, these QSOs should be disallowed by the award manager!
      However, worse yet, a number of countries in Region 1 have the IARU bandplan incorporated in their licence terms.
      These stations are then contravening their licences and actually operating illegally!

      What to do? Well, Regions 2 and 3 do not have any plans to change.  Region 1 scheduled the issue
      for a meeting a few weeks ago, but failed even to discuss it, owing to objections from the CW lobby,
      who want it left as it is.   Their view is that all digimodes should obey IARU and move above 10.140 MHz.
      So nothing is likely to change for several years.

      Ian (G3NRW) has a very complete overview of world-wide usage on 30 meters, but can JT65A and JT9
      accordingly move up into the 10 KHz IARU Region 1 and Region 3 recommendation?  Is that really feasible?
      If so, it could alleviate the problem, until IARU insists that the regions must have the same bandplan to cater
      for world-wide HF communications. 

      Maybe someone else can comment and perhaps suggest a better alternative?

      73  Robin, 9H1ZZ


      To: 30mdg@yahoogroups.com
      From: scott_currier@...
      Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 16:29:34 +0000
      Subject: RE: [30MDG] File - Any Reports on 30 mtr contacts?

       
       
      Same here Barry. I have worked a few new stations on JT65 but not many.
       
      I have made some contacts on JT-9, many or most are people I have worked on other modes.
       
      I think that it may be a disadvantage to have jt-9 down at 10.130 and JT65 at 10.138 +-.
       
      I think that it would make sense to move JT65 down 1000 cycles and put JT9 in just above JT65 like it is on other bands.
       
      Now that the WSJT-X program does both JT-9 and 65 it would be nice to see both at the same time like you can on other bands.
       
      I imagine that there will be a transition over to JT-9 unless there is a compelling reason to use JT65 instead. JT9 is so much narrower. Even on 30 meters the JT65 part of the band can get crowded. The narow JT-9 mode can solve that problem.
       
      I've been neglecting the other modes in favor of JT-9 and 65. Need to get back on the other digital modes as well as spend more time DXing on RTTY and CW.
       
      73 and have a nice day.
       
      Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA




















       

      To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
      From: Barry@...
      Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2013 23:09:16 +0100
      Subject: RE: [30MDG] File - Any Reports on 30 mtr contacts?

       
      Hi Don & all, I must admit I find it hard now to get contacts on 30M :-(
      I use JT65A, HamSpots pick me up in VK etc, but very few QSO's.
      I do try PSK etc as well.
      But I will keep trying.
      Barry M0IOW, 30MDG#013

       






    • 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
      Any group member have any 30 meter digital mode contacts to report? Or does anyone have any comments about the propagation paths in your area of the World for
      Message 912 of 912 , Apr 26 4:38 AM
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        Any group member have any 30 meter digital mode contacts to report?

        Or does anyone have any comments about the propagation paths in your area of the World for the last few weeks on the 30 meter band?
        (openings, path changes, activity, DX best times, modes, antennas, etc)

        Or report 30m digital spots here:
        http://hamspots.net/30mdg/
        (thanks Laurie VK3AMA)
        http://pskreporter.info/pskmap.html

        30 Meter Band Utilization Chart:
        http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/30m_band_utilization.htm
        (Courtesy of Ian G3NRW and thanks Ian)


        Also remember thanks to Richard PA3GWH we have a live 30 Meter PSK Online Receivers so check out what is happening in EU on 30 Meters:

        http://aprs.pa3gwh.com/PskRcvR12/Applet/Receiver.html
        Voorburg JO22EB Netherlands, Thanks Richard PA3GWH


        (We would like to promote more 30m online PSK receivers so anyone else wanting to setup a 30 meter PSK receiver please email kb9umt AT arrl.net )

        For other 30MDG Information please go to our http://www.30mdg.net page.

        Thanks

        de kb9umt Don 30MDG#0001
        EN50dp - Moderator
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