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Re: NA/USA Digital Ops on 30 Meter Band - activity

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  • dl6xaz
    Robin - right you are. - As for the discussed radar in SP, RA2 and else, I doubt it very much that they will use the same stuff as ZC4 which to large extent is
    Message 1 of 27 , May 21 7:18 AM
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      Robin - right you are. - As for the discussed radar in SP, RA2 and else, I doubt it very much that they will use the same stuff as ZC4 which to large extent is superfluous and a cold war relic. Also, there is a lot of sabre-rattling involved, usually much exaggerated by the media. Wait and see.
      vy73 Fred DL6XAZ


      --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hodgson <robin_a_hodgson@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Richard, I have similar experience to Fred. So long as the RF input is not saturating, you can continue working through OTHR with some modes.
      > Sound cards have a huge dynamic range and provided the software is designed to handle the signal range and has good noise rejection, there
      > is no reason for stopping a QSO as the OTHR powers up. With JT65 you may not even notice it.... I have seen a -20dB S/N signal continue to decode
      > as the S9++ OTHR apparantly eclipses it on the waterfall. Same goes for WSPR.
      > The problem is that operators want to see the signals on the waterfall (or even listen to the audio), so take fright, switch off or change bands!
      > So all 30 meter ham activity ceases.
      > If, like me, you decide to stick with it, and call CQ, then how do you know where to find another similar minded ham?
      > I would think it is possible to use RSID and choose a very robust mode like Olivia.
      > I have tried the DM780 Superbrowser, but its decode of PSK is not robust enough in the presence of OTHR.
      > As I said before, JT65-HF works fine here. Maybe ROS can also handle this?
      >
      > If the OTHR originates in ZC4-land maybe someone in 5B-land can tell us how they cope with a few megawatts of 10 MHz RF power in their back yard?
      > As Russia (in Kaliningrad?) and NATO (in Poland?) are talking about new Radar Systems, we may have to learn how to live with this (or worse).
      > I believe the US has de-commissioned its military OTHRs on US soil.
      > Robin, 9H1ZZ
      >
      > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
      > From: dl6xaz@...
      > Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 07:54:24 +0000
      > Subject: [30MDG] Re: NA/USA Digital Ops on 30 Meter Band - activity
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      > Richard, - when it comes on and you are in Olivia or Contestia even, you will see that you can carry on with the QSO! Happened to me on several occasions. Of course, got to turn the audio down as otherwise I get barmy by that noise...
      >
      > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
      >
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      > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, pa3gwh@ wrote:
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      > > > Do they have to stop a QSO for OTH RADAR in Europe?
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      > > We sure do! Supposedly, there is an OTHR station on Cyprus, if that is the one I see every once in a while, a large portion of the band becomes unusable, 9+20 signal puts everything behind bars....
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      > > Richard
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    • Don
      Fred DL6XAZ, Very good points and thanks for the reply. Don KB9UMT 30MDG#0001 www.30mdg.net
      Message 2 of 27 , May 24 6:30 PM
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        Fred DL6XAZ,

        Very good points and thanks for the reply.

        Don KB9UMT 30MDG#0001
        www.30mdg.net

        --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "dl6xaz" <dl6xaz@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Don,
        > thank you very much.
        > As for the possible reason why in EU we are more active, it could be that the sheer number of dxcc-entities available at short distance helps to make it more attractive. We are so close to each other that I for ex. have difficulties in working OZ which is just a bit more than 100 km away... Late G0UZP Paul (SK) complained that from the Midlands usually he could not work GD, GJ or GU on 30m... On the other hand, many very active hams from RA, UR, IZ etc. are at one-hop distance and are roaring in at such levels that I got to use all available narrowing and filtering to blank them when working weak signals. Imagine what happens when rare DX comes up. It is deafening.
        > Yes, it is highly interesting being on 30m here on the old continent, even with my very low location and simple vertical. Can't even hang up a proper dipole.
        > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
        >
        > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "Don" <dhobson123@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Fred DL6XAZ,
        > >
        > > Always good to see your replies and views from an EU point of view, good reply.
        > >
        > .........snip.-............
        >
      • Scott Currier
        Good day everyone, been a while since I ve posted, I hope you re all doing well. This year, the only digital mode that I have been spending any time on is
        Message 3 of 27 , May 24 8:02 PM
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          Good day everyone, been a while since I've posted, I hope you're all doing well.

          This year, the only digital mode that I have been spending any time on is JT65. Thus the following remarks are biased from a JT65 users point of view.

          I would expect a big drop in 30 meter activity this time of year and at this point in the sunspot cycle.

          One of the things that makes 30 meters such a great band is that it is usable on a daily basis throughout the 11 year solar cycle.

          The same is not true of bands above 20 meters.

          Thus there is merit to using the higher bands when the "using" is good knowing full well that 30 meters is available at any point in the cycle.

          20 meters is open quite often around the clock now.

          Most days 15 meters is open, sometimes 10 and 12.

          30 meters at this time is the place to be mainly late at nite and through the overnight, unless 20 is hopping at the same time.

          I have also noticed a bias in the JT65 world towards the non-warc bands.

          It seems like activity on jt65 skips from 10 to 15, 15 to 20, and 20 to 40.

          It would make more sense to not skip the warc bands and thus staying closer to the MUF.

          There is some jt65 on 160 and I am hoping that there is much more this fall.

          The main reasons that I don't work much 30 jt65 now are the following.

          1. Lack of activity. After so many unanswered cq's, it's time to change bands.

          2. I am working on JT65 WAS confirmed via LOTW on all bands. I already have 30 meters and 20. I need the rest. 

          3. 10 and 12 aren't open that often so I work them anytime I see them open.

          4. 15 has been very good for long distance JT65 contacts, even as late as midnight local.

          5. I need contacts on the higher bands more than 30 so if I am going to call CQ and not get many answers, I'd rather do it on the higher bands.

          6. In the low part of the sunspot cycle I'll be spending plenty of time on 30.


          I suspect that a lot of people, especially those new to digital probably spend most of their time on 20 meters. I know that when I first got on psk31 I used 20 meters for the most part. It was open all day, there was plenty of activity but not too much. In short, there was little reason in the beginning to change.

          It's unfortunate that most people seem to skip over 30 meters when the MUF drops below 14 mHz. I could never understand that.

          Why go down to 40, why cut your frequency in half? 40 is crowded and noisy. Makes more sense to work 30 until the MUF drops below 10 mHz.

          I hope that gives some insight.

          73 all and have a nice weekend.

          Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA





















          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
          From: dhobson123@...
          Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:33:34 +0000
          Subject: [30MDG] Re: NA/USA Digital Ops on 30 Meter Band - activity

           
          Hi Paul N7XFT,

          Thanks for the reply and I meant to comment also on Fred's reply about JT65 on 30m -it would be nice to see more JT65 acitvity (we use to have more-seems many have moved or worked all they could work I guess-there are only so many ops using the JT65 mode so not sure if more are joining in or not). What kind of trouble are you having on JT65? What software? The JT65-HF software seems very easy to use and works great.

          I have noticed my last few contacts a few CW ops on 30m finally coming up higher working digital modes but with the lack of activity I also notice many digital ops moving down to the CW portion too.

          Keep up the good work on the band as I have seen your signal a few times on the band so next time I will take the time to respond back to your call.

          GL on the 30m band.

          Don KB9UMT 30MDG#0001
          www.30mdg.net

          --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Cavnar" <paul.cavnar@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello everyone -
          >
          > 30m has been and continues to be my favorite band. I worked a lot of CW
          > for years but recently I have been mostly running digital modes. I
          > found that I do like Olivia best of all. I like to use FLDigi software
          > which seems to be a little more user friendly and far less complicated
          > than HRD. Although DM780 does have some good features on it's own. I
          > especially like the auto-detect signal notifications.
          >
          > The JT65 software does not seem very 'friendly' to me and although I
          > have been able to receive some stations, I can only seem to get call
          > sign reports and no text of messages.
          >
          > Usually on weekends, I am on 30m about 10.142 watching my waterfall
          > which rarely picks up anything even in the US until late afternoons
          > here. Then, mostly PSK with a lot of QSB. I find the most activity on
          > 40m in the evenings.
          >
          > I would enjoy QSO's with anyone on 30m, especially Olivia. The last few
          > weekends I have spent quite a bit of time throughout the evening and
          > afternoon calling CQ and have not had a contact. But, I won't give up.
          > :)
          >
          > Hopefully, I will have my 30m vertical up and working soon and that
          > might make a bit of difference for DX. My main problem is high power
          > overhead power lines on the back of the property and an average S7-S8
          > noise level on all bands. :(
          >
          > 73, Paul - N7XFT
          > Reno, Nevada USA
          >


        • Scott Currier
          Does anyone have any insight on the possible negative impact on the popularity of JT65 on 30 meters due to the fact that most of the activity is below 10.140?
          Message 4 of 27 , May 24 8:11 PM
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            Does anyone have any insight on the possible negative impact on the popularity of JT65 on 30 meters due to the fact that most of the activity is below 10.140?

            People in this forum in the past have stated that they are not allowed to operate digital below 10.140 mHz.

            There is another frequency suggested for 30 meters up higher in the band but so far I have made only one Q up there.

            It does not appear to be used.

            Does anyone have a list of countries where it is illegal to use digital modes below 10.140?

            My understanding is while the Region 1 bandplan recommends that digital be used above 10.140, not all countries in Region 1 have put that into their regulations.

            Please correct me if I am wrong.

            Thank you in advance for any input.

            73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA

























          • Scott Currier
            I guess we re pretty lucky over here. With our measly 200 watt power limit, it s pretty rare to get signals on 30 that are so strong they cause problems. Of
            Message 5 of 27 , May 24 8:21 PM
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              I guess we're pretty lucky over here. With our measly 200 watt power limit, it's pretty rare to get signals on 30 that are so strong they cause problems.

              Of course on the digital modes most people are running 50 or less which helps.

              On my Yaesu I don't see too many signals that are much over S9, hardly anything 10db over and 10db over is rare. 

              Thats with 6db between each S unit. I understand Icom uses 4db between S units so there can be quite a difference in readings between the two brands.

              Thats using my 80 meter OCF at about 17 meters.

              I'm fortunate to be within 10 miles of the ocean. Makes working over to your part of the world quite easy.

              73

              Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA



              To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
              From: dl6xaz@...
              Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 08:02:39 +0000
              Subject: [30MDG] Re: NA/USA Digital Ops on 30 Meter Band - activity

               
              Hi Don,
              thank you very much.
              As for the possible reason why in EU we are more active, it could be that the sheer number of dxcc-entities available at short distance helps to make it more attractive. We are so close to each other that I for ex. have difficulties in working OZ which is just a bit more than 100 km away... Late G0UZP Paul (SK) complained that from the Midlands usually he could not work GD, GJ or GU on 30m... On the other hand, many very active hams from RA, UR, IZ etc. are at one-hop distance and are roaring in at such levels that I got to use all available narrowing and filtering to blank them when working weak signals. Imagine what happens when rare DX comes up. It is deafening.
              Yes, it is highly interesting being on 30m here on the old continent, even with my very low location and simple vertical. Can't even hang up a proper dipole.
              vy73 Fred DL6XAZ

              --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "Don" <dhobson123@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Fred DL6XAZ,
              >
              > Always good to see your replies and views from an EU point of view, good reply.
              >
              .........snip.-............


            • n9jca
              As a Regular user of JT65A on 30m; the JT65-HF Group uses 10138; you d be surprised at how many Station (US and European) are using this Frequency. The other
              Message 6 of 27 , May 24 9:19 PM
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                As a Regular user of JT65A on 30m; the JT65-HF Group uses 10138; you'd be surprised at how many Station (US and European) are using this Frequency. The other night; just for fun, I left my rig on 10138 from 0100 UTC until when I got up at 1100 UTC and Reported over 100 RB's back to PSKReporter this included USA and Europe

                On the flip-side not sure of what you mean by "Negative"

                May have my Wires crossed but thought that I would give some kind of Answer

                Chris - N9JCA #0333

                --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                >
                >
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                > Does anyone have any insight on the possible negative impact on the popularity of JT65 on 30 meters due to the fact that most of the activity is below 10.140?
                >
                > People in this forum in the past have stated that they are not allowed to operate digital below 10.140 mHz.
                >
                > There is another frequency suggested for 30 meters up higher in the band but so far I have made only one Q up there.
                >
                > It does not appear to be used.
                >
                > Does anyone have a list of countries where it is illegal to use digital modes below 10.140?
                >
                > My understanding is while the Region 1 bandplan recommends that digital be used above 10.140, not all countries in Region 1 have put that into their regulations.
                >
                > Please correct me if I am wrong.
                >
                > Thank you in advance for any input.
                >
                > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
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              • YV5MM Manuel Mosquera
                ... 73 de Manuel # 690 MANUEL MOSQUERA RAMIREZYV5MM / 4M6M / YW6ISS P.O. Box 20285CARACAS 1020A D.C. yv5mm@arrl.netyv5mm@amsat.orgyv5mm6@gmail.com ... From:
                Message 7 of 27 , May 25 6:14 AM
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                  > Good morning Scott: With all respect. It´s not a matter of popularity. We were at the beginning in 10.139 Mhz. and too much QRM came from other digi modes in 10.140 Mhz & up. I am happy in 10.138 MHz working DX stations with 5 Watts with very clear signals.
                  73 de Manuel # 690

                  MANUEL MOSQUERA RAMIREZ

                  YV5MM / 4M6M / YW6ISS


                  P.O. Box 20285

                  CARACAS 1020A D.C.



                  yv5mm@...

                  yv5mm@...

                  yv5mm6@...










                  --- On Fri, 5/25/12, n9jca <n9jca@...> wrote:

                  From: n9jca <n9jca@...>
                  Subject: [30MDG] Re: The impact of JT65 being below 10.140.
                  To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Friday, May 25, 2012, 12:19 AM

                   

                  As a Regular user of JT65A on 30m; the JT65-HF Group uses 10138; you'd be surprised at how many Station (US and European) are using this Frequency. The other night; just for fun, I left my rig on 10138 from 0100 UTC until when I got up at 1100 UTC and Reported over 100 RB's back to PSKReporter this included USA and Europe

                  On the flip-side not sure of what you mean by "Negative"

                  May have my Wires crossed but thought that I would give some kind of Answer

                  Chris - N9JCA #0333

                  --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Does anyone have any insight on the possible negative impact on the popularity of JT65 on 30 meters due to the fact that most of the activity is below 10.140?
                  >
                  > People in this forum in the past have stated that they are not allowed to operate digital below 10.140 mHz.
                  >
                  > There is another frequency suggested for 30 meters up higher in the band but so far I have made only one Q up there.
                  >
                  > It does not appear to be used.
                  >
                  > Does anyone have a list of countries where it is illegal to use digital modes below 10.140?
                  >
                  > My understanding is while the Region 1 bandplan recommends that digital be used above 10.140, not all countries in Region 1 have put that into their regulations.
                  >
                  > Please correct me if I am wrong.
                  >
                  > Thank you in advance for any input.
                  >
                  > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
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                • Scott Currier
                  Hi Chris, I ve worked a lot of stations on 10.138 as well. I have WAS on LOTW on that frequency as well as quite a few countries. There is another channel
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 25 8:18 AM
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                    Hi Chris, I've worked a lot of stations on 10.138 as well. I have WAS on LOTW on that frequency as well as quite a few countries.

                    There is another channel around 10.148 that is recommended in JT65HF for JT65, that's the frequency I hardly ever hear anyone on.

                    By negative impact, I mean fewer users because they're not authorized to operate digital modes below 10.140.

                    I hope you have a nice long weekend.

                    73 and good DX

                    Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA





















                    To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                    From: n9jca@...
                    Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 04:19:39 +0000
                    Subject: [30MDG] Re: The impact of JT65 being below 10.140.

                     
                    As a Regular user of JT65A on 30m; the JT65-HF Group uses 10138; you'd be surprised at how many Station (US and European) are using this Frequency. The other night; just for fun, I left my rig on 10138 from 0100 UTC until when I got up at 1100 UTC and Reported over 100 RB's back to PSKReporter this included USA and Europe

                    On the flip-side not sure of what you mean by "Negative"

                    May have my Wires crossed but thought that I would give some kind of Answer

                    Chris - N9JCA #0333

                    --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Does anyone have any insight on the possible negative impact on the popularity of JT65 on 30 meters due to the fact that most of the activity is below 10.140?
                    >
                    > People in this forum in the past have stated that they are not allowed to operate digital below 10.140 mHz.
                    >
                    > There is another frequency suggested for 30 meters up higher in the band but so far I have made only one Q up there.
                    >
                    > It does not appear to be used.
                    >
                    > Does anyone have a list of countries where it is illegal to use digital modes below 10.140?
                    >
                    > My understanding is while the Region 1 bandplan recommends that digital be used above 10.140, not all countries in Region 1 have put that into their regulations.
                    >
                    > Please correct me if I am wrong.
                    >
                    > Thank you in advance for any input.
                    >
                    > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
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                  • Bill Vodall
                    ... It would be nice if there was more activity there. That s special because it s possible to run all three APRS, APRS-Messenger and JT65-HF programs at the
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 25 11:03 AM
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                      > There is another channel around 10.148 that is recommended in JT65HF for
                      > JT65, that's the frequency I hardly ever hear anyone on.

                      It would be nice if there was more activity there. That's special
                      because it's possible to run all three APRS, APRS-Messenger and
                      JT65-HF programs at the same time with one radio on one frequency...

                      Bill
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