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Re: NA/USA Digital Ops on 30 Meter Band - activity

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  • dl6xaz
    Hi all, you are all right in what you observe and comment; my tuppence to the topic: - whenever I switch on to 30m, there is always at least one stn from RA,
    Message 1 of 27 , May 20, 2012
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      Hi all,
      you are all right in what you observe and comment; my tuppence to the topic:
      - whenever I switch on to 30m, there is always at least one stn from RA, OK, HA and UR (don't about the DL as I rarely hear them), and as from 16z onwards it gets really active, condx permitting, until around 20-22z. There are times when you get simultaneously up to 30+ tracks in upto half a dozen modes. I dare say that for us Europeans it is a very common and always active band.
      - yes we have to stop for OTHR which fortunately in the past fortnight or so has been absent; if it comes on, only Olivia and Contestia can make it through, as tested.
      - JT65 from stateside is rather common until about 07z but very few and regular stations are heard. We would welcome more activity!
      Evidently, having worked most of the stns on 30m already, at this moment I often change to 17 and 12m what has been quite rewarding, too, although I must tweak my 30m L/4 vertical with an ATU; never mind, it works reasonably.
      - CW section suffers from military activity from TA around 10.111-113 and at times in RTTY/ASCII and similar at about 10.120 and 10.130 which can be annoying. We also got some idiots who love disturbing DX activity with carriers, especially on weekends.
      - 40m is for me a no-go-area for being too crowded in CW, and the digital section shift to 7.040-60 has not reached all brains yet. However, I have worked at least a dozen modes there already.
      - in general the liking of different digital modes has not increased, despite RSID and Video-ID. Most ops have either no liking for anything different from bpsk-31 or are unaware that under less favourable condx they can make QSOs which in bspk would be doomed.
      - I am missing calls from Oceania which usually come through at this time of the year in the mornings. So apparently the neglect of 30m is not a regional but a general fact.
      vy73 Fred DL6XAZ #988

      --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "Don" <dhobson123@...> wrote:
      >
      > GM all,
      >
      > Interesting copy the other day about a week ago on 30m (copy and paste from the waterfall below):
      >
      > ********
      ----------------snip------
    • Paul Cavnar
      Hello everyone - 30m has been and continues to be my favorite band. I worked a lot of CW for years but recently I have been mostly running digital modes. I
      Message 2 of 27 , May 20, 2012
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        Hello everyone -

        30m has been and continues to be my favorite band. I worked a lot of CW
        for years but recently I have been mostly running digital modes. I
        found that I do like Olivia best of all. I like to use FLDigi software
        which seems to be a little more user friendly and far less complicated
        than HRD. Although DM780 does have some good features on it's own. I
        especially like the auto-detect signal notifications.

        The JT65 software does not seem very 'friendly' to me and although I
        have been able to receive some stations, I can only seem to get call
        sign reports and no text of messages.

        Usually on weekends, I am on 30m about 10.142 watching my waterfall
        which rarely picks up anything even in the US until late afternoons
        here. Then, mostly PSK with a lot of QSB. I find the most activity on
        40m in the evenings.

        I would enjoy QSO's with anyone on 30m, especially Olivia. The last few
        weekends I have spent quite a bit of time throughout the evening and
        afternoon calling CQ and have not had a contact. But, I won't give up.
        :)

        Hopefully, I will have my 30m vertical up and working soon and that
        might make a bit of difference for DX. My main problem is high power
        overhead power lines on the back of the property and an average S7-S8
        noise level on all bands. :(

        73, Paul - N7XFT
        Reno, Nevada USA
      • Don
        Hi Chris KU4A, Thanks for the reply and no guilt just asking the question wondering why...as you say I too have been inactive for the most part on 30m no guilt
        Message 3 of 27 , May 20, 2012
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          Hi Chris KU4A,

          Thanks for the reply and no guilt just asking the question wondering why...as you say I too have been inactive for the most part on 30m no guilt here but just have not had the time to get in the shack - no time for me and our company like many others in the USA will not hire people so it makes for longer days, weekends and over-time!

          I can say the few times I have been able to get in the shack the 30m band has been good from what I see here in EN50 - that is good if you like DX -lot of strong signals both CW and Digital from EU or other parts of the World - a few days/week a go F2YT was 20 over s9 here but no one from NA/USA calling him back but then again maybe most have worked him since so active on the band but what a signal - note that those on dipoles in EU at that time were still S8 or so...so the band was good from what I have noticed.

          What I see missing are stations from NA/USA at times -those I do see are usually always a good signal so not sure why none seem to use 30 Meters from NA/USA even for ragchew, experimenting, or general use but then again maybe it's all about the DX and they think 30m digital doesn't provide that - personally I think when switching to 30m those in NA/USA call CQ a few times (usually only in BPSK31) then if no answer off to another band - maybe not really giving it long enough but then again if no others or activity might be a waste of time on 30m for them.

          Thanks
          Don KB9UMT 30MDG#0001
          www.30mdg.net

          --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Chris Gay <ku4a@...> wrote:
          >
          > Greetings, all. I plead guilty to not doing much on 30m digital lately. I generally try 12m and 17m first. I have come down to 30 a couple times as evening arrives here. Europe starts to come in about that time. I did stay on 30 during the "operating weekend" we had in May. Whenever another station was on they were LOUD. So, the band is good, it is just that a lot of people aren't on the band.
          >
          > I have mostly been using JT65 here lately. So, if you need Kentucky watch for me there.
          >
          > Chris
          > KU4A
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
        • Don
          Hi Fred N2FJ, Thanks for the reply and good to see you reply. I think those that started all this for 30m digital and continued to participate on the 30m band
          Message 4 of 27 , May 20, 2012
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            Hi Fred N2FJ,

            Thanks for the reply and good to see you reply.

            I think those that started all this for 30m digital and continued to participate on the 30m band promoting digital modes sparked that interest years back and from 2007 to around 2010/11 we sure did have the acitivty but now it appears for NA/USA anyway the peak for 30 has peaked but again it might be several things like the cycle peak moving others to higher bands to work the digial ops on those bands or DX on those bands which is all good and maybe after the peak they will return back to 30m and try once again.

            I was just trying to figure out why the NA/USA has so much less activity on 30m band than EU...could be the peak (both peak of interest and cycle peak)...maybe EU has more interest in digital modes now than NA/USA (?)...it is fact as you see also Fred N2FJ since you are a 30MDG Award Manager that you will see many EU 30MDG Applications to a very few NA/USA applications so our 30MDG Award Program seems to not interest NA/USA ops from what I see but maybe I'm wrong.

            EU continues to dominate 30 Meter Digital so the question I seem to have is what is different there than in NA/USA?

            Thanks
            Don KB9UMT 30MDG#00001
            www.30mdg.net

            --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, <n2fj@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have wondered that also Don.. I spend alot of time on 30 digital and tend to spend it alone... hopefully it will be active again.. guess it takes someone to spark that intrerest but how to do that is the question i guess..
            > 73, Fred N2FJ
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Don
            > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 10:28 AM
            > Subject: [30MDG] NA/USA Digital Ops on 30 Meter Band - activity
            >
            >
            >
            > GM all,
            >
            > Interesting copy the other day about a week ago on 30m (copy and paste from the waterfall below):
            >
            > ********
            > W4DDK de n0gr ..hello bill, glad to see your signal on the waterfall... I thought the band was dead until I tuned down to the cw portion and thTe lots of good signals... what has happened to 30 mtr digital, it was for a time a very active band
            > ********
            >
            > I for one have not been as active for months but when I do get a chance to get to the shack I too have noticed this....busy on CW portion, band in great shape, but digital portion only a few signals to no signals in NA - where are the USA Digital Operators on 30 Meters?
            >
            > Keep in mind also noticed a few things on 30 Meters - once the band opens to EU from my QTH then I see many signals in EU.
            >
            > Also being an Award Manager for 30MDG Awards it appears our EU friends are very active with the Award program - maybe this is due to EU also being so heavily involved in EPC Awards too. Compared to EU the NA/USA applications are very few and far between.
            >
            > Over the past 6 or 7 years the push for 30 Meter Digital activity seemed to bring some NA/USA digital operators to the 30 Meter Band and work some digital modes and experiment.. but the last year or two seems NA/USA decided to go back to the normal 20 Meter and 40 Meter watering holes - or with the cycle today to the higher bands which is normal and maybe we will gain some back to 30 Meters after this peak - but all in all NA was not even a 1/10th as active on 30 Meters as the EU Digital Operators......
            >
            > Why are the EU digital ops so much more active on digital modes and on 30 Meters than those in NA/USA?
            >
            > Don KB9UMT
            > 30MDG#0001
            > www.30mdg.net
            >
          • Don
            Hi Ken wa8jxm, Good reply and noted - thanks for taking the time to respond. I don t get on the other bands much but when I do I see the same thing - 20m is
            Message 5 of 27 , May 20, 2012
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              Hi Ken wa8jxm,

              Good reply and noted - thanks for taking the time to respond.

              I don't get on the other bands much but when I do I see the same thing - 20m is the strong hold of course for BPSK31 so it is always active and you can count on that - I find 17m hit and miss but good band conditions for me into EU and other parts of the World on 17m so if the prop/DX is good 17m is great for me -12m/10m also good but as you say 40m to me since the switch down seems to be confusing, too conjested, or maybe a fight for operating space - 80 meters also use to be active late at night but have not see that here as of late - 160m seems to be a no go for BPSK31 activity or any other digital mode activity as far as what I see on 160m from here -for the most part unless you are working JT65 on 160m and there isn't a contest there doesn't seem to be any other digital activity.

              I like all bands and all digital modes but for me I find the main-stay 20m band boring - sure I will work the DX when there but for me a 599, TU, 73 contact doesn't give me much because I can already see if you are 599 to me most times I would be the same back and don't chase paper or Awards (although I like true reports -mine are sure not all 599) so to know a little more about the others operating conditions the operator or such is nice so a short or long ragchew seems enjoyable for me.

              Thanks for the comment Ken.

              Don KB9UMT 30MDG#0001
              www.30mdg.net

              --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Ken <wa8jxm@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > On May 20, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Don wrote:
              >
              > > I for one have not been as active for months but when I do get a chance to get to the shack I too have noticed this....busy on CW portion, band in great shape, but digital portion only a few signals to no signals in NA - where are the USA Digital Operators on 30 Meters?
              >
              >
              > FWIW, I've noticed the same thing on 40m. 40 cw is active but 40 digital is pretty empty, especially anything beyond PSK. It seems to me that 40 digital activity has dropped significantly from a year ago.
              >
              > I don't hit the other bands much but it may be across the board. OTOH, maybe I'm just not listening enough.
              >
              > Ken WA8JXM
              >
            • Don
              Hi Fred DL6XAZ, Always good to see your replies and views from an EU point of view, good reply. I agree with your reply - I wonder why RSID and other modes are
              Message 6 of 27 , May 20, 2012
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                Hi Fred DL6XAZ,

                Always good to see your replies and views from an EU point of view, good reply.

                I agree with your reply - I wonder why RSID and other modes are not used more often when the band is not in the best shape also.

                I know you're right on the 30+ tracks on the waterfall from EU because I can watch it from here go from a few from NA/USA to when the band opens to EU many tracks and digita activity as you say -would be nice to see that here but we have not had that for a long time.

                Good as always to see your replies here and your signal on the 30m band.

                Don KB9UMT 30MDG#0001
                www.30mdg.net

                --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "dl6xaz" <dl6xaz@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi all,
                > you are all right in what you observe and comment; my tuppence to the topic:
                > - whenever I switch on to 30m, there is always at least one stn from RA, OK, HA and UR (don't about the DL as I rarely hear them), and as from 16z onwards it gets really active, condx permitting, until around 20-22z. There are times when you get simultaneously up to 30+ tracks in upto half a dozen modes. I dare say that for us Europeans it is a very common and always active band.
                > - yes we have to stop for OTHR which fortunately in the past fortnight or so has been absent; if it comes on, only Olivia and Contestia can make it through, as tested.
                > - JT65 from stateside is rather common until about 07z but very few and regular stations are heard. We would welcome more activity!
                > Evidently, having worked most of the stns on 30m already, at this moment I often change to 17 and 12m what has been quite rewarding, too, although I must tweak my 30m L/4 vertical with an ATU; never mind, it works reasonably.
                > - CW section suffers from military activity from TA around 10.111-113 and at times in RTTY/ASCII and similar at about 10.120 and 10.130 which can be annoying. We also got some idiots who love disturbing DX activity with carriers, especially on weekends.
                > - 40m is for me a no-go-area for being too crowded in CW, and the digital section shift to 7.040-60 has not reached all brains yet. However, I have worked at least a dozen modes there already.
                > - in general the liking of different digital modes has not increased, despite RSID and Video-ID. Most ops have either no liking for anything different from bpsk-31 or are unaware that under less favourable condx they can make QSOs which in bspk would be doomed.
                > - I am missing calls from Oceania which usually come through at this time of the year in the mornings. So apparently the neglect of 30m is not a regional but a general fact.
                > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ #988
                >
                > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "Don" <dhobson123@> wrote:
                > >
                > > GM all,
                > >
                > > Interesting copy the other day about a week ago on 30m (copy and paste from the waterfall below):
                > >
                > > ********
                > ----------------snip------
                >
              • Don
                Hi Paul N7XFT, Thanks for the reply and I meant to comment also on Fred s reply about JT65 on 30m -it would be nice to see more JT65 acitvity (we use to have
                Message 7 of 27 , May 20, 2012
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                  Hi Paul N7XFT,

                  Thanks for the reply and I meant to comment also on Fred's reply about JT65 on 30m -it would be nice to see more JT65 acitvity (we use to have more-seems many have moved or worked all they could work I guess-there are only so many ops using the JT65 mode so not sure if more are joining in or not). What kind of trouble are you having on JT65? What software? The JT65-HF software seems very easy to use and works great.

                  I have noticed my last few contacts a few CW ops on 30m finally coming up higher working digital modes but with the lack of activity I also notice many digital ops moving down to the CW portion too.

                  Keep up the good work on the band as I have seen your signal a few times on the band so next time I will take the time to respond back to your call.

                  GL on the 30m band.

                  Don KB9UMT 30MDG#0001
                  www.30mdg.net

                  --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Cavnar" <paul.cavnar@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello everyone -
                  >
                  > 30m has been and continues to be my favorite band. I worked a lot of CW
                  > for years but recently I have been mostly running digital modes. I
                  > found that I do like Olivia best of all. I like to use FLDigi software
                  > which seems to be a little more user friendly and far less complicated
                  > than HRD. Although DM780 does have some good features on it's own. I
                  > especially like the auto-detect signal notifications.
                  >
                  > The JT65 software does not seem very 'friendly' to me and although I
                  > have been able to receive some stations, I can only seem to get call
                  > sign reports and no text of messages.
                  >
                  > Usually on weekends, I am on 30m about 10.142 watching my waterfall
                  > which rarely picks up anything even in the US until late afternoons
                  > here. Then, mostly PSK with a lot of QSB. I find the most activity on
                  > 40m in the evenings.
                  >
                  > I would enjoy QSO's with anyone on 30m, especially Olivia. The last few
                  > weekends I have spent quite a bit of time throughout the evening and
                  > afternoon calling CQ and have not had a contact. But, I won't give up.
                  > :)
                  >
                  > Hopefully, I will have my 30m vertical up and working soon and that
                  > might make a bit of difference for DX. My main problem is high power
                  > overhead power lines on the back of the property and an average S7-S8
                  > noise level on all bands. :(
                  >
                  > 73, Paul - N7XFT
                  > Reno, Nevada USA
                  >
                • Don Leitch
                  Paul 30 is also my favourite band. I like the ops who work it, they seem a more dedicated bunch than those who work 20 say. Jt65hf is simple in that all it
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 20, 2012
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                    Paul 30 is also my favourite band. I like the ops who work it, they seem a more dedicated bunch than those who work 20 say.

                    Jt65hf is simple in that all it does is call sign and report, its a qrp mode really and not meant as a rag chew mode. Though  you can logon  and chat online within the group

                    If so inclined.

                    The older method was hard to use compared to what we have now.

                    For me, down under in oceania, I don’t hear a LOT of stations  and those I do hear are the same ones over and over again.

                    I have 38 US states  on 30 so far . The only time for me  30 “works” is the grey line 1500 to 1900. Having said that  daytime VK and  pacific island DX peditions sometimes

                    So I have to ask more us ops to stay up just a few more hours

                    Don zl1atb

                     

                     

                     

                    From: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:30MDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Cavnar
                    Sent: Monday, 21 May 2012 5:17 a.m.
                    To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [30MDG] Re: NA/USA Digital Ops on 30 Meter Band - activity

                     

                     

                    Hello everyone -

                    30m has been and continues to be my favorite band. I worked a lot of CW
                    for years but recently I have been mostly running digital modes. I
                    found that I do like Olivia best of all. I like to use FLDigi software
                    which seems to be a little more user friendly and far less complicated
                    than HRD. Although DM780 does have some good features on it's own. I
                    especially like the auto-detect signal notifications.

                    The JT65 software does not seem very 'friendly' to me and although I
                    have been able to receive some stations, I can only seem to get call
                    sign reports and no text of messages.

                    Usually on weekends, I am on 30m about 10.142 watching my waterfall
                    which rarely picks up anything even in the US until late afternoons
                    here. Then, mostly PSK with a lot of QSB. I find the most activity on
                    40m in the evenings.

                    I would enjoy QSO's with anyone on 30m, especially Olivia. The last few
                    weekends I have spent quite a bit of time throughout the evening and
                    afternoon calling CQ and have not had a contact. But, I won't give up.
                    :)

                    Hopefully, I will have my 30m vertical up and working soon and that
                    might make a bit of difference for DX. My main problem is high power
                    overhead power lines on the back of the property and an average S7-S8
                    noise level on all bands. :(

                    73, Paul - N7XFT
                    Reno, Nevada USA

                  • pa3gwh@pa3gwh.com
                    ... We sure do! Supposedly, there is an OTHR station on Cyprus, if that is the one I see every once in a while, a large portion of the band becomes unusable,
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 20, 2012
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                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > Do they have to stop a QSO for OTH RADAR in Europe?
                      >
                      We sure do! Supposedly, there is an OTHR station on Cyprus, if that is the one I see every once in a while, a large portion of the band becomes unusable, 9+20 signal puts everything behind bars....

                      Richard
                    • dl6xaz
                      Richard, - when it comes on and you are in Olivia or Contestia even, you will see that you can carry on with the QSO! Happened to me on several occasions. Of
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 21, 2012
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                        Richard, - when it comes on and you are in Olivia or Contestia even, you will see that you can carry on with the QSO! Happened to me on several occasions. Of course, got to turn the audio down as otherwise I get barmy by that noise...
                        vy73 Fred DL6XAZ

                        --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, pa3gwh@... wrote:
                        >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > Do they have to stop a QSO for OTH RADAR in Europe?
                        > >
                        > We sure do! Supposedly, there is an OTHR station on Cyprus, if that is the one I see every once in a while, a large portion of the band becomes unusable, 9+20 signal puts everything behind bars....
                        >
                        > Richard
                        >
                      • dl6xaz
                        Hi Don, thank you very much. As for the possible reason why in EU we are more active, it could be that the sheer number of dxcc-entities available at short
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 21, 2012
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                          Hi Don,
                          thank you very much.
                          As for the possible reason why in EU we are more active, it could be that the sheer number of dxcc-entities available at short distance helps to make it more attractive. We are so close to each other that I for ex. have difficulties in working OZ which is just a bit more than 100 km away... Late G0UZP Paul (SK) complained that from the Midlands usually he could not work GD, GJ or GU on 30m... On the other hand, many very active hams from RA, UR, IZ etc. are at one-hop distance and are roaring in at such levels that I got to use all available narrowing and filtering to blank them when working weak signals. Imagine what happens when rare DX comes up. It is deafening.
                          Yes, it is highly interesting being on 30m here on the old continent, even with my very low location and simple vertical. Can't even hang up a proper dipole.
                          vy73 Fred DL6XAZ

                          --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "Don" <dhobson123@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Fred DL6XAZ,
                          >
                          > Always good to see your replies and views from an EU point of view, good reply.
                          >
                          .........snip.-............
                        • Robin Hodgson
                          Richard, I have similar experience to Fred. So long as the RF input is not saturating, you can continue working through OTHR with some modes. Sound cards have
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 21, 2012
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                            Richard, I have similar experience to Fred.  So long as the RF input is not saturating, you can continue working through OTHR with some modes.
                            Sound cards have a huge dynamic range and provided the software is designed to handle the signal range and has good noise rejection, there
                            is no reason for stopping a QSO as the OTHR powers up.  With JT65 you may not even notice it.... I have seen a -20dB S/N signal continue to decode
                            as the S9++ OTHR apparantly eclipses it on the waterfall.  Same goes for WSPR.
                            The problem is that operators want to see the signals on the waterfall (or even listen to the audio), so take fright, switch off or change bands!
                            So all 30 meter ham activity ceases.
                            If, like me, you decide to stick with it, and call CQ, then how do you know where to find another similar minded ham?
                            I would think it is possible to use RSID and choose a very robust mode like Olivia.
                            I have tried the DM780 Superbrowser, but its decode of PSK is not robust enough in the presence of OTHR.
                            As I said before, JT65-HF works fine here. Maybe ROS can also handle this?

                            If the OTHR originates in ZC4-land maybe someone in 5B-land can tell us how they cope with a few megawatts of 10 MHz RF power in their back yard? 
                            As Russia (in Kaliningrad?) and NATO (in Poland?) are talking about new Radar Systems, we may have to learn how to live with this (or worse).
                            I believe the US has de-commissioned its military OTHRs on US soil.
                            Robin,  9H1ZZ 


                            To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                            From: dl6xaz@...
                            Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 07:54:24 +0000
                            Subject: [30MDG] Re: NA/USA Digital Ops on 30 Meter Band - activity

                             
                            Richard, - when it comes on and you are in Olivia or Contestia even, you will see that you can carry on with the QSO! Happened to me on several occasions. Of course, got to turn the audio down as otherwise I get barmy by that noise...
                            vy73 Fred DL6XAZ

                            --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, pa3gwh@... wrote:
                            >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > Do they have to stop a QSO for OTH RADAR in Europe?
                            > >
                            > We sure do! Supposedly, there is an OTHR station on Cyprus, if that is the one I see every once in a while, a large portion of the band becomes unusable, 9+20 signal puts everything behind bars....
                            >
                            > Richard
                            >


                          • dl6xaz
                            Robin - right you are. - As for the discussed radar in SP, RA2 and else, I doubt it very much that they will use the same stuff as ZC4 which to large extent is
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 21, 2012
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                              Robin - right you are. - As for the discussed radar in SP, RA2 and else, I doubt it very much that they will use the same stuff as ZC4 which to large extent is superfluous and a cold war relic. Also, there is a lot of sabre-rattling involved, usually much exaggerated by the media. Wait and see.
                              vy73 Fred DL6XAZ


                              --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Robin Hodgson <robin_a_hodgson@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Richard, I have similar experience to Fred. So long as the RF input is not saturating, you can continue working through OTHR with some modes.
                              > Sound cards have a huge dynamic range and provided the software is designed to handle the signal range and has good noise rejection, there
                              > is no reason for stopping a QSO as the OTHR powers up. With JT65 you may not even notice it.... I have seen a -20dB S/N signal continue to decode
                              > as the S9++ OTHR apparantly eclipses it on the waterfall. Same goes for WSPR.
                              > The problem is that operators want to see the signals on the waterfall (or even listen to the audio), so take fright, switch off or change bands!
                              > So all 30 meter ham activity ceases.
                              > If, like me, you decide to stick with it, and call CQ, then how do you know where to find another similar minded ham?
                              > I would think it is possible to use RSID and choose a very robust mode like Olivia.
                              > I have tried the DM780 Superbrowser, but its decode of PSK is not robust enough in the presence of OTHR.
                              > As I said before, JT65-HF works fine here. Maybe ROS can also handle this?
                              >
                              > If the OTHR originates in ZC4-land maybe someone in 5B-land can tell us how they cope with a few megawatts of 10 MHz RF power in their back yard?
                              > As Russia (in Kaliningrad?) and NATO (in Poland?) are talking about new Radar Systems, we may have to learn how to live with this (or worse).
                              > I believe the US has de-commissioned its military OTHRs on US soil.
                              > Robin, 9H1ZZ
                              >
                              > To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                              > From: dl6xaz@...
                              > Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 07:54:24 +0000
                              > Subject: [30MDG] Re: NA/USA Digital Ops on 30 Meter Band - activity
                              >
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                              > Richard, - when it comes on and you are in Olivia or Contestia even, you will see that you can carry on with the QSO! Happened to me on several occasions. Of course, got to turn the audio down as otherwise I get barmy by that noise...
                              >
                              > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, pa3gwh@ wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > >
                              >
                              > > > >
                              >
                              > > > >
                              >
                              > > > Do they have to stop a QSO for OTH RADAR in Europe?
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > > We sure do! Supposedly, there is an OTHR station on Cyprus, if that is the one I see every once in a while, a large portion of the band becomes unusable, 9+20 signal puts everything behind bars....
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > Richard
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Don
                              Fred DL6XAZ, Very good points and thanks for the reply. Don KB9UMT 30MDG#0001 www.30mdg.net
                              Message 14 of 27 , May 24, 2012
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                                Fred DL6XAZ,

                                Very good points and thanks for the reply.

                                Don KB9UMT 30MDG#0001
                                www.30mdg.net

                                --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "dl6xaz" <dl6xaz@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Don,
                                > thank you very much.
                                > As for the possible reason why in EU we are more active, it could be that the sheer number of dxcc-entities available at short distance helps to make it more attractive. We are so close to each other that I for ex. have difficulties in working OZ which is just a bit more than 100 km away... Late G0UZP Paul (SK) complained that from the Midlands usually he could not work GD, GJ or GU on 30m... On the other hand, many very active hams from RA, UR, IZ etc. are at one-hop distance and are roaring in at such levels that I got to use all available narrowing and filtering to blank them when working weak signals. Imagine what happens when rare DX comes up. It is deafening.
                                > Yes, it is highly interesting being on 30m here on the old continent, even with my very low location and simple vertical. Can't even hang up a proper dipole.
                                > vy73 Fred DL6XAZ
                                >
                                > --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "Don" <dhobson123@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hi Fred DL6XAZ,
                                > >
                                > > Always good to see your replies and views from an EU point of view, good reply.
                                > >
                                > .........snip.-............
                                >
                              • Scott Currier
                                Good day everyone, been a while since I ve posted, I hope you re all doing well. This year, the only digital mode that I have been spending any time on is
                                Message 15 of 27 , May 24, 2012
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                                  Good day everyone, been a while since I've posted, I hope you're all doing well.

                                  This year, the only digital mode that I have been spending any time on is JT65. Thus the following remarks are biased from a JT65 users point of view.

                                  I would expect a big drop in 30 meter activity this time of year and at this point in the sunspot cycle.

                                  One of the things that makes 30 meters such a great band is that it is usable on a daily basis throughout the 11 year solar cycle.

                                  The same is not true of bands above 20 meters.

                                  Thus there is merit to using the higher bands when the "using" is good knowing full well that 30 meters is available at any point in the cycle.

                                  20 meters is open quite often around the clock now.

                                  Most days 15 meters is open, sometimes 10 and 12.

                                  30 meters at this time is the place to be mainly late at nite and through the overnight, unless 20 is hopping at the same time.

                                  I have also noticed a bias in the JT65 world towards the non-warc bands.

                                  It seems like activity on jt65 skips from 10 to 15, 15 to 20, and 20 to 40.

                                  It would make more sense to not skip the warc bands and thus staying closer to the MUF.

                                  There is some jt65 on 160 and I am hoping that there is much more this fall.

                                  The main reasons that I don't work much 30 jt65 now are the following.

                                  1. Lack of activity. After so many unanswered cq's, it's time to change bands.

                                  2. I am working on JT65 WAS confirmed via LOTW on all bands. I already have 30 meters and 20. I need the rest. 

                                  3. 10 and 12 aren't open that often so I work them anytime I see them open.

                                  4. 15 has been very good for long distance JT65 contacts, even as late as midnight local.

                                  5. I need contacts on the higher bands more than 30 so if I am going to call CQ and not get many answers, I'd rather do it on the higher bands.

                                  6. In the low part of the sunspot cycle I'll be spending plenty of time on 30.


                                  I suspect that a lot of people, especially those new to digital probably spend most of their time on 20 meters. I know that when I first got on psk31 I used 20 meters for the most part. It was open all day, there was plenty of activity but not too much. In short, there was little reason in the beginning to change.

                                  It's unfortunate that most people seem to skip over 30 meters when the MUF drops below 14 mHz. I could never understand that.

                                  Why go down to 40, why cut your frequency in half? 40 is crowded and noisy. Makes more sense to work 30 until the MUF drops below 10 mHz.

                                  I hope that gives some insight.

                                  73 all and have a nice weekend.

                                  Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA





















                                  To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: dhobson123@...
                                  Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:33:34 +0000
                                  Subject: [30MDG] Re: NA/USA Digital Ops on 30 Meter Band - activity

                                   
                                  Hi Paul N7XFT,

                                  Thanks for the reply and I meant to comment also on Fred's reply about JT65 on 30m -it would be nice to see more JT65 acitvity (we use to have more-seems many have moved or worked all they could work I guess-there are only so many ops using the JT65 mode so not sure if more are joining in or not). What kind of trouble are you having on JT65? What software? The JT65-HF software seems very easy to use and works great.

                                  I have noticed my last few contacts a few CW ops on 30m finally coming up higher working digital modes but with the lack of activity I also notice many digital ops moving down to the CW portion too.

                                  Keep up the good work on the band as I have seen your signal a few times on the band so next time I will take the time to respond back to your call.

                                  GL on the 30m band.

                                  Don KB9UMT 30MDG#0001
                                  www.30mdg.net

                                  --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Cavnar" <paul.cavnar@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello everyone -
                                  >
                                  > 30m has been and continues to be my favorite band. I worked a lot of CW
                                  > for years but recently I have been mostly running digital modes. I
                                  > found that I do like Olivia best of all. I like to use FLDigi software
                                  > which seems to be a little more user friendly and far less complicated
                                  > than HRD. Although DM780 does have some good features on it's own. I
                                  > especially like the auto-detect signal notifications.
                                  >
                                  > The JT65 software does not seem very 'friendly' to me and although I
                                  > have been able to receive some stations, I can only seem to get call
                                  > sign reports and no text of messages.
                                  >
                                  > Usually on weekends, I am on 30m about 10.142 watching my waterfall
                                  > which rarely picks up anything even in the US until late afternoons
                                  > here. Then, mostly PSK with a lot of QSB. I find the most activity on
                                  > 40m in the evenings.
                                  >
                                  > I would enjoy QSO's with anyone on 30m, especially Olivia. The last few
                                  > weekends I have spent quite a bit of time throughout the evening and
                                  > afternoon calling CQ and have not had a contact. But, I won't give up.
                                  > :)
                                  >
                                  > Hopefully, I will have my 30m vertical up and working soon and that
                                  > might make a bit of difference for DX. My main problem is high power
                                  > overhead power lines on the back of the property and an average S7-S8
                                  > noise level on all bands. :(
                                  >
                                  > 73, Paul - N7XFT
                                  > Reno, Nevada USA
                                  >


                                • Scott Currier
                                  Does anyone have any insight on the possible negative impact on the popularity of JT65 on 30 meters due to the fact that most of the activity is below 10.140?
                                  Message 16 of 27 , May 24, 2012
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                                    Does anyone have any insight on the possible negative impact on the popularity of JT65 on 30 meters due to the fact that most of the activity is below 10.140?

                                    People in this forum in the past have stated that they are not allowed to operate digital below 10.140 mHz.

                                    There is another frequency suggested for 30 meters up higher in the band but so far I have made only one Q up there.

                                    It does not appear to be used.

                                    Does anyone have a list of countries where it is illegal to use digital modes below 10.140?

                                    My understanding is while the Region 1 bandplan recommends that digital be used above 10.140, not all countries in Region 1 have put that into their regulations.

                                    Please correct me if I am wrong.

                                    Thank you in advance for any input.

                                    73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA

























                                  • Scott Currier
                                    I guess we re pretty lucky over here. With our measly 200 watt power limit, it s pretty rare to get signals on 30 that are so strong they cause problems. Of
                                    Message 17 of 27 , May 24, 2012
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                                      I guess we're pretty lucky over here. With our measly 200 watt power limit, it's pretty rare to get signals on 30 that are so strong they cause problems.

                                      Of course on the digital modes most people are running 50 or less which helps.

                                      On my Yaesu I don't see too many signals that are much over S9, hardly anything 10db over and 10db over is rare. 

                                      Thats with 6db between each S unit. I understand Icom uses 4db between S units so there can be quite a difference in readings between the two brands.

                                      Thats using my 80 meter OCF at about 17 meters.

                                      I'm fortunate to be within 10 miles of the ocean. Makes working over to your part of the world quite easy.

                                      73

                                      Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA



                                      To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: dl6xaz@...
                                      Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 08:02:39 +0000
                                      Subject: [30MDG] Re: NA/USA Digital Ops on 30 Meter Band - activity

                                       
                                      Hi Don,
                                      thank you very much.
                                      As for the possible reason why in EU we are more active, it could be that the sheer number of dxcc-entities available at short distance helps to make it more attractive. We are so close to each other that I for ex. have difficulties in working OZ which is just a bit more than 100 km away... Late G0UZP Paul (SK) complained that from the Midlands usually he could not work GD, GJ or GU on 30m... On the other hand, many very active hams from RA, UR, IZ etc. are at one-hop distance and are roaring in at such levels that I got to use all available narrowing and filtering to blank them when working weak signals. Imagine what happens when rare DX comes up. It is deafening.
                                      Yes, it is highly interesting being on 30m here on the old continent, even with my very low location and simple vertical. Can't even hang up a proper dipole.
                                      vy73 Fred DL6XAZ

                                      --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, "Don" <dhobson123@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Fred DL6XAZ,
                                      >
                                      > Always good to see your replies and views from an EU point of view, good reply.
                                      >
                                      .........snip.-............


                                    • n9jca
                                      As a Regular user of JT65A on 30m; the JT65-HF Group uses 10138; you d be surprised at how many Station (US and European) are using this Frequency. The other
                                      Message 18 of 27 , May 24, 2012
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                                        As a Regular user of JT65A on 30m; the JT65-HF Group uses 10138; you'd be surprised at how many Station (US and European) are using this Frequency. The other night; just for fun, I left my rig on 10138 from 0100 UTC until when I got up at 1100 UTC and Reported over 100 RB's back to PSKReporter this included USA and Europe

                                        On the flip-side not sure of what you mean by "Negative"

                                        May have my Wires crossed but thought that I would give some kind of Answer

                                        Chris - N9JCA #0333

                                        --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Does anyone have any insight on the possible negative impact on the popularity of JT65 on 30 meters due to the fact that most of the activity is below 10.140?
                                        >
                                        > People in this forum in the past have stated that they are not allowed to operate digital below 10.140 mHz.
                                        >
                                        > There is another frequency suggested for 30 meters up higher in the band but so far I have made only one Q up there.
                                        >
                                        > It does not appear to be used.
                                        >
                                        > Does anyone have a list of countries where it is illegal to use digital modes below 10.140?
                                        >
                                        > My understanding is while the Region 1 bandplan recommends that digital be used above 10.140, not all countries in Region 1 have put that into their regulations.
                                        >
                                        > Please correct me if I am wrong.
                                        >
                                        > Thank you in advance for any input.
                                        >
                                        > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
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                                      • YV5MM Manuel Mosquera
                                        ... 73 de Manuel # 690 MANUEL MOSQUERA RAMIREZYV5MM / 4M6M / YW6ISS P.O. Box 20285CARACAS 1020A D.C. yv5mm@arrl.netyv5mm@amsat.orgyv5mm6@gmail.com ... From:
                                        Message 19 of 27 , May 25, 2012
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                                          > Good morning Scott: With all respect. It´s not a matter of popularity. We were at the beginning in 10.139 Mhz. and too much QRM came from other digi modes in 10.140 Mhz & up. I am happy in 10.138 MHz working DX stations with 5 Watts with very clear signals.
                                          73 de Manuel # 690

                                          MANUEL MOSQUERA RAMIREZ

                                          YV5MM / 4M6M / YW6ISS


                                          P.O. Box 20285

                                          CARACAS 1020A D.C.



                                          yv5mm@...

                                          yv5mm@...

                                          yv5mm6@...










                                          --- On Fri, 5/25/12, n9jca <n9jca@...> wrote:

                                          From: n9jca <n9jca@...>
                                          Subject: [30MDG] Re: The impact of JT65 being below 10.140.
                                          To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Friday, May 25, 2012, 12:19 AM

                                           

                                          As a Regular user of JT65A on 30m; the JT65-HF Group uses 10138; you'd be surprised at how many Station (US and European) are using this Frequency. The other night; just for fun, I left my rig on 10138 from 0100 UTC until when I got up at 1100 UTC and Reported over 100 RB's back to PSKReporter this included USA and Europe

                                          On the flip-side not sure of what you mean by "Negative"

                                          May have my Wires crossed but thought that I would give some kind of Answer

                                          Chris - N9JCA #0333

                                          --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Does anyone have any insight on the possible negative impact on the popularity of JT65 on 30 meters due to the fact that most of the activity is below 10.140?
                                          >
                                          > People in this forum in the past have stated that they are not allowed to operate digital below 10.140 mHz.
                                          >
                                          > There is another frequency suggested for 30 meters up higher in the band but so far I have made only one Q up there.
                                          >
                                          > It does not appear to be used.
                                          >
                                          > Does anyone have a list of countries where it is illegal to use digital modes below 10.140?
                                          >
                                          > My understanding is while the Region 1 bandplan recommends that digital be used above 10.140, not all countries in Region 1 have put that into their regulations.
                                          >
                                          > Please correct me if I am wrong.
                                          >
                                          > Thank you in advance for any input.
                                          >
                                          > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
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                                        • Scott Currier
                                          Hi Chris, I ve worked a lot of stations on 10.138 as well. I have WAS on LOTW on that frequency as well as quite a few countries. There is another channel
                                          Message 20 of 27 , May 25, 2012
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                                            Hi Chris, I've worked a lot of stations on 10.138 as well. I have WAS on LOTW on that frequency as well as quite a few countries.

                                            There is another channel around 10.148 that is recommended in JT65HF for JT65, that's the frequency I hardly ever hear anyone on.

                                            By negative impact, I mean fewer users because they're not authorized to operate digital modes below 10.140.

                                            I hope you have a nice long weekend.

                                            73 and good DX

                                            Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA





















                                            To: 30MDG@yahoogroups.com
                                            From: n9jca@...
                                            Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 04:19:39 +0000
                                            Subject: [30MDG] Re: The impact of JT65 being below 10.140.

                                             
                                            As a Regular user of JT65A on 30m; the JT65-HF Group uses 10138; you'd be surprised at how many Station (US and European) are using this Frequency. The other night; just for fun, I left my rig on 10138 from 0100 UTC until when I got up at 1100 UTC and Reported over 100 RB's back to PSKReporter this included USA and Europe

                                            On the flip-side not sure of what you mean by "Negative"

                                            May have my Wires crossed but thought that I would give some kind of Answer

                                            Chris - N9JCA #0333

                                            --- In 30MDG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Currier <scott_currier@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Does anyone have any insight on the possible negative impact on the popularity of JT65 on 30 meters due to the fact that most of the activity is below 10.140?
                                            >
                                            > People in this forum in the past have stated that they are not allowed to operate digital below 10.140 mHz.
                                            >
                                            > There is another frequency suggested for 30 meters up higher in the band but so far I have made only one Q up there.
                                            >
                                            > It does not appear to be used.
                                            >
                                            > Does anyone have a list of countries where it is illegal to use digital modes below 10.140?
                                            >
                                            > My understanding is while the Region 1 bandplan recommends that digital be used above 10.140, not all countries in Region 1 have put that into their regulations.
                                            >
                                            > Please correct me if I am wrong.
                                            >
                                            > Thank you in advance for any input.
                                            >
                                            > 73 Scott KT1B Haverhill, MA
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                                          • Bill Vodall
                                            ... It would be nice if there was more activity there. That s special because it s possible to run all three APRS, APRS-Messenger and JT65-HF programs at the
                                            Message 21 of 27 , May 25, 2012
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                                              > There is another channel around 10.148 that is recommended in JT65HF for
                                              > JT65, that's the frequency I hardly ever hear anyone on.

                                              It would be nice if there was more activity there. That's special
                                              because it's possible to run all three APRS, APRS-Messenger and
                                              JT65-HF programs at the same time with one radio on one frequency...

                                              Bill
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