Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [1listSculpting] Re: Sculpting for casting

Expand Messages
  • poshgoblin
    Always cut your models up carefully so there are no undercuts - and remember to leave a keypoint in the cut parts so they can be joined together after casting.
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 22, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Always cut your models up carefully so there are no undercuts - and remember to leave a keypoint in the cut parts so they can be joined together after casting.




      ________________________________
      From: mrshortcutz <suggus.tds@...>
      To: 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, 22 February 2013, 0:14
      Subject: [1listSculpting] Re: Sculpting for casting


       


      I just wanted to say that I have since found a wonderful wealth of casting info on this site. I didn't see the blasted search bar! :S

      Still, if you have any handy hints you consider worth giving... :P


      --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "mrshortcutz" wrote:
      >
      > Hi again all, thank you for the warm welcome I've had since joining this site. ;p
      >
      > I've got some commission work for a fellow who is starting up his own miniature range. I wanted to ask if anybody had any advise they could share on designing/sculpting minis for the casting process.
      >
      > I've looked through the messages section but couldn't find anything quite relevant enough. I also have a few books on casting larger character busts and maquettes but I couldn't find any on miniatures.
      >
      > Thanks again. ;)
      >




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • grogbro
      What is an undercut? Are there examples on the web with pics? I will google it later when I am at my pc. Just curious. Thanks! Sent via the Samsung Galaxy
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 22, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        What is an undercut? Are there examples on the web with pics? I will google it later when I am at my pc. Just curious. Thanks!

        Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphoneposhgoblin <poshgoblin@...> wrote:Always cut your models up carefully so there are no undercuts - and remember to leave a keypoint in the cut parts so they can be joined together after casting.

        ________________________________
        From: mrshortcutz suggus.tds@...>
        To: 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, 22 February 2013, 0:14
        Subject: [1listSculpting] Re: Sculpting for casting


         

        I just wanted to say that I have since found a wonderful wealth of casting info on this site. I didn't see the blasted search bar! :S

        Still, if you have any handy hints you consider worth giving... :P

        --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "mrshortcutz" wrote:
        >
        > Hi again all, thank you for the warm welcome I've had since joining this site. ;p
        >
        > I've got some commission work for a fellow who is starting up his own miniature range. I wanted to ask if anybody had any advise they could share on designing/sculpting minis for the casting process.
        >
        > I've looked through the messages section but couldn't find anything quite relevant enough. I also have a few books on casting larger character busts and maquettes but I couldn't find any on miniatures.
        >
        > Thanks again. ;)
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • poshgoblin
        It s an enclosed space within a model, such as the loop that would occur if your figure was to hold a spear directly in front of it, held with both hands. You
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 22, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          It's an enclosed space within a model, such as the loop that would occur if your figure was to hold a spear directly in front of it, held with both hands. You can either cut the arms off as a seperate piece, or fill in the gap in order to make it suitable for casting.




          ________________________________
          From: grogbro <grogbro@...>
          To: 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, 22 February 2013, 13:15
          Subject: Re: [1listSculpting] Re: Sculpting for casting


           
          What is an undercut? Are there examples on the web with pics? I will google it later when I am at my pc. Just curious. Thanks!

          Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphoneposhgoblin poshgoblin@...> wrote:Always cut your models up carefully so there are no undercuts - and remember to leave a keypoint in the cut parts so they can be joined together after casting.

          ________________________________
          From: mrshortcutz suggus.tds@...>
          To: 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, 22 February 2013, 0:14
          Subject: [1listSculpting] Re: Sculpting for casting

           

          I just wanted to say that I have since found a wonderful wealth of casting info on this site. I didn't see the blasted search bar! :S

          Still, if you have any handy hints you consider worth giving... :P

          --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "mrshortcutz" wrote:
          >
          > Hi again all, thank you for the warm welcome I've had since joining this site. ;p
          >
          > I've got some commission work for a fellow who is starting up his own miniature range. I wanted to ask if anybody had any advise they could share on designing/sculpting minis for the casting process.
          >
          > I've looked through the messages section but couldn't find anything quite relevant enough. I also have a few books on casting larger character busts and maquettes but I couldn't find any on miniatures.
          >
          > Thanks again. ;)
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • diquet
          Undercuts - if you were wearing a skirt, the space between your legs would be an undercut - in miniature terms you d need to fill it with putty. You could get
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 22, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Undercuts - if you were wearing a skirt, the space between your legs would be an undercut - in miniature terms you'd need to fill it with putty. You could get away with not filling it all the way to the hem, but only a millimetre or so at most.

            If the rubber from the mold goes too far 'into' the minaiture - I.e. Up the skirt (if you'll excuse the example!) Then eventually that bit of the rubber mold will tear off and ruin the mold and subsequent castings - hence the need to avoid undercuts.

            Another example would be overlapping armour plates. You'd need to make sure you fill any voids between the plates.

            You also need to be mindful of the plane when you're sculpting - the mold consists of 2 flat plates, so you need to think about where the mold line will run around the model - you don't really want it running through the middle of the face for example.

            Also, be careful about complex poses. A model with both arms outstretched in front of them holding a staff in both hands for example - this will create a hollow void at a tangent to the body. If you don't separate the arms and have it as a multi part model, you'll end up with the arms being trapped in the rubber and an unusable mold and possibly master too.

            Best thing to do is look at how other companies supply their models - look for where parts are separated, where mold lines are etc.

            Final point of note - if you're planning to use fimo or similar for your master, you may want to make sure the first mold is made using rtv rubber as the traditional vulcanising process (heat + pressure) does tend to result in a crumbled master! If the mold doesn't take first time, you won't get a second chance!

            Sorry if that's a lot to take in (and a fair bit of doom and gloom talk of ruined models reading it back!) but hopefully there's a few useful bits that'll save you some heartache down the line.

            Good luck!

            Dan
          • mrshortcutz
            Wow! Thanks Dan, that really clears a lot of stuff up. I m feeling much more confident on sending my minis to be casted now. :P Although, I don t think that
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 27, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Wow! Thanks Dan, that really clears a lot of stuff up.

              I'm feeling much more confident on sending my minis to be casted now. :P

              Although, I don't think that I'll be sending my Fimo/URO figures to be casted anytime soon. I'll be keeping it safe with good old Green Stuff for the time being.

              Thanks again!
              Gus

              --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, diquet@... wrote:
              >
              > Undercuts - if you were wearing a skirt, the space between your legs would be an undercut - in miniature terms you'd need to fill it with putty. You could get away with not filling it all the way to the hem, but only a millimetre or so at most.
              >
              > If the rubber from the mold goes too far 'into' the minaiture - I.e. Up the skirt (if you'll excuse the example!) Then eventually that bit of the rubber mold will tear off and ruin the mold and subsequent castings - hence the need to avoid undercuts.
              >
              > Another example would be overlapping armour plates. You'd need to make sure you fill any voids between the plates.
              >
              > You also need to be mindful of the plane when you're sculpting - the mold consists of 2 flat plates, so you need to think about where the mold line will run around the model - you don't really want it running through the middle of the face for example.
              >
              > Also, be careful about complex poses. A model with both arms outstretched in front of them holding a staff in both hands for example - this will create a hollow void at a tangent to the body. If you don't separate the arms and have it as a multi part model, you'll end up with the arms being trapped in the rubber and an unusable mold and possibly master too.
              >
              > Best thing to do is look at how other companies supply their models - look for where parts are separated, where mold lines are etc.
              >
              > Final point of note - if you're planning to use fimo or similar for your master, you may want to make sure the first mold is made using rtv rubber as the traditional vulcanising process (heat + pressure) does tend to result in a crumbled master! If the mold doesn't take first time, you won't get a second chance!
              >
              > Sorry if that's a lot to take in (and a fair bit of doom and gloom talk of ruined models reading it back!) but hopefully there's a few useful bits that'll save you some heartache down the line.
              >
              > Good luck!
              >
              > Dan
              >
            • mrshortcutz
              Hi All, I have begun sculpting for commission work and have a question regarding the moulding process. Although I am aware of looking out for undercuts, what s
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 21, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi All,


                I have begun sculpting for commission work and have a question regarding the moulding process.


                Although I am aware of looking out for undercuts, what's confusing me is the dividing line between the moulds when the model is cast.


                I have received somewhat mixed messages about this on the forums and websites I've been on.


                Some people advise me to sculpt as though the dividing plane is flat but when I look at many metal figures by company's like GW the dividing mould plane appears "wavy". (See images below)


                http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/wavymoldline.jpg/

                http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/flatcasting.jpg/


                I can create far more dynamic poses if I can allow for the mould line to be "wavy". (I apologise for the simple terms, I am sure all you experienced sculptors out there know the technical names for what I am trying to describe.)


                Can anyone give me any advise on this?


                Thanks!
                Gus


                --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "mrshortcutz" <suggus.tds@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Wow! Thanks Dan, that really clears a lot of stuff up.
                >
                > I'm feeling much more confident on sending my minis to be casted now. :P
                >
                > Although, I don't think that I'll be sending my Fimo/URO figures to be casted anytime soon. I'll be keeping it safe with good old Green Stuff for the time being.
                >
                > Thanks again!
                > Gus
                >
                > --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, diquet@ wrote:
                > >
                > > Undercuts - if you were wearing a skirt, the space between your legs would be an undercut - in miniature terms you'd need to fill it with putty. You could get away with not filling it all the way to the hem, but only a millimetre or so at most.
                > >
                > > If the rubber from the mold goes too far 'into' the minaiture - I.e. Up the skirt (if you'll excuse the example!) Then eventually that bit of the rubber mold will tear off and ruin the mold and subsequent castings - hence the need to avoid undercuts.
                > >
                > > Another example would be overlapping armour plates. You'd need to make sure you fill any voids between the plates.
                > >
                > > You also need to be mindful of the plane when you're sculpting - the mold consists of 2 flat plates, so you need to think about where the mold line will run around the model - you don't really want it running through the middle of the face for example.
                > >
                > > Also, be careful about complex poses. A model with both arms outstretched in front of them holding a staff in both hands for example - this will create a hollow void at a tangent to the body. If you don't separate the arms and have it as a multi part model, you'll end up with the arms being trapped in the rubber and an unusable mold and possibly master too.
                > >
                > > Best thing to do is look at how other companies supply their models - look for where parts are separated, where mold lines are etc.
                > >
                > > Final point of note - if you're planning to use fimo or similar for your master, you may want to make sure the first mold is made using rtv rubber as the traditional vulcanising process (heat + pressure) does tend to result in a crumbled master! If the mold doesn't take first time, you won't get a second chance!
                > >
                > > Sorry if that's a lot to take in (and a fair bit of doom and gloom talk of ruined models reading it back!) but hopefully there's a few useful bits that'll save you some heartache down the line.
                > >
                > > Good luck!
                > >
                > > Dan
                > >
                >
              • oli2001uk
                Gus, With those wavy mould lines you are most likely seeing an illusion caused by a photograph of a 3d figure presented in a 2d image. With the standard moulds
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 22, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Gus,

                  With those wavy mould lines you are most likely seeing an illusion caused by a photograph of a 3d figure presented in a 2d image.

                  With the standard moulds used for spin-casting metals your master is sandwiched between two flat sheets. The connecting surface area between those sheets needs to be perfectly flat otherwise you could end up with bubbles between the surfaces which - if in the wrong place - could ruin the castablilty of the model.

                  However, when creating a mould the figure does not 'have' to be put into the mould perfectly flat on its back or side. The mould maker looks at the figure and chooses to lay it down in the best position to allow for the mould to work.

                  This could mean the figure goes into the mould on a slight diagonal (e.g. lying on it's back with the left side deeper into the mould than the right), which when photographed straight on could 'seem' to have a wavy mould line because the camera is not lined up to specifically 'show off' the mould line.

                  A decent mould make can deal with the majority of dynamic poses, the main issue that you need to think about is ensuring that there is no undercut. Some undercuts 'can' be moulded but this comes down to the skill of the mould maker and the care of the caster when removing the items from the mould. It's safer to always assume no undercutting is possible.

                  Another main thing to take into consideration is whether or not the metal will be able to actually flow through the model. If for example you have a huge long thin weapon sticking out on it's own at a 90 degree angle to the bulk of the figure it's harder for the metal to get to the end. In situations like that you might be better off thinking about a multi-part figure.

                  On another note, we've got a database of freelance sculptors on our website. Every now and again a new client will come to us and we'll help them commission the concept art, sculpts and(or) casting of miniatures. If you're interested in freelance work send some examples of your work and prices etc, to either myself or Dan (diquet).

                  ~Oli


                  --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "mrshortcutz" <suggus.tds@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi All,
                  >
                  >
                  > I have begun sculpting for commission work and have a question regarding the moulding process.
                  >
                  >
                  > Although I am aware of looking out for undercuts, what's confusing me is the dividing line between the moulds when the model is cast.
                  >
                  >
                  > I have received somewhat mixed messages about this on the forums and websites I've been on.
                  >
                  >
                  > Some people advise me to sculpt as though the dividing plane is flat but when I look at many metal figures by company's like GW the dividing mould plane appears "wavy". (See images below)
                  >
                  >
                  > http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/wavymoldline.jpg/
                  >
                  > http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/flatcasting.jpg/
                  >
                  >
                  > I can create far more dynamic poses if I can allow for the mould line to be "wavy". (I apologise for the simple terms, I am sure all you experienced sculptors out there know the technical names for what I am trying to describe.)
                  >
                  >
                  > Can anyone give me any advise on this?
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks!
                  > Gus
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "mrshortcutz" <suggus.tds@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Wow! Thanks Dan, that really clears a lot of stuff up.
                  > >
                  > > I'm feeling much more confident on sending my minis to be casted now. :P
                  > >
                  > > Although, I don't think that I'll be sending my Fimo/URO figures to be casted anytime soon. I'll be keeping it safe with good old Green Stuff for the time being.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks again!
                  > > Gus
                  > >
                  > > --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, diquet@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Undercuts - if you were wearing a skirt, the space between your legs would be an undercut - in miniature terms you'd need to fill it with putty. You could get away with not filling it all the way to the hem, but only a millimetre or so at most.
                  > > >
                  > > > If the rubber from the mold goes too far 'into' the minaiture - I.e. Up the skirt (if you'll excuse the example!) Then eventually that bit of the rubber mold will tear off and ruin the mold and subsequent castings - hence the need to avoid undercuts.
                  > > >
                  > > > Another example would be overlapping armour plates. You'd need to make sure you fill any voids between the plates.
                  > > >
                  > > > You also need to be mindful of the plane when you're sculpting - the mold consists of 2 flat plates, so you need to think about where the mold line will run around the model - you don't really want it running through the middle of the face for example.
                  > > >
                  > > > Also, be careful about complex poses. A model with both arms outstretched in front of them holding a staff in both hands for example - this will create a hollow void at a tangent to the body. If you don't separate the arms and have it as a multi part model, you'll end up with the arms being trapped in the rubber and an unusable mold and possibly master too.
                  > > >
                  > > > Best thing to do is look at how other companies supply their models - look for where parts are separated, where mold lines are etc.
                  > > >
                  > > > Final point of note - if you're planning to use fimo or similar for your master, you may want to make sure the first mold is made using rtv rubber as the traditional vulcanising process (heat + pressure) does tend to result in a crumbled master! If the mold doesn't take first time, you won't get a second chance!
                  > > >
                  > > > Sorry if that's a lot to take in (and a fair bit of doom and gloom talk of ruined models reading it back!) but hopefully there's a few useful bits that'll save you some heartache down the line.
                  > > >
                  > > > Good luck!
                  > > >
                  > > > Dan
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • mrshortcutz
                  Thanks for your in-depth answer Oli, that really clears things up. Looks like casting to a flat mould is the way to go. There is far more to miniature
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 26, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks for your in-depth answer Oli, that really clears things up.

                    Looks like casting to a flat mould is the way to go. There is far more to miniature sculpting than meets the eye.
                    There are still a few GW miniatures that are leaving me scratching my head as to how they were casted flat. I think it seems likely that GW have better tech to handle more complicated poses.

                    As I'm booked up with a few commissions at the moment I will put my stuff up on the site when things quieten down a bit.

                    All the best,
                    Gus

                    --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "oli2001uk" <ogp@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Gus,
                    >
                    > With those wavy mould lines you are most likely seeing an illusion caused by a photograph of a 3d figure presented in a 2d image.
                    >
                    > With the standard moulds used for spin-casting metals your master is sandwiched between two flat sheets. The connecting surface area between those sheets needs to be perfectly flat otherwise you could end up with bubbles between the surfaces which - if in the wrong place - could ruin the castablilty of the model.
                    >
                    > However, when creating a mould the figure does not 'have' to be put into the mould perfectly flat on its back or side. The mould maker looks at the figure and chooses to lay it down in the best position to allow for the mould to work.
                    >
                    > This could mean the figure goes into the mould on a slight diagonal (e.g. lying on it's back with the left side deeper into the mould than the right), which when photographed straight on could 'seem' to have a wavy mould line because the camera is not lined up to specifically 'show off' the mould line.
                    >
                    > A decent mould make can deal with the majority of dynamic poses, the main issue that you need to think about is ensuring that there is no undercut. Some undercuts 'can' be moulded but this comes down to the skill of the mould maker and the care of the caster when removing the items from the mould. It's safer to always assume no undercutting is possible.
                    >
                    > Another main thing to take into consideration is whether or not the metal will be able to actually flow through the model. If for example you have a huge long thin weapon sticking out on it's own at a 90 degree angle to the bulk of the figure it's harder for the metal to get to the end. In situations like that you might be better off thinking about a multi-part figure.
                    >
                    > On another note, we've got a database of freelance sculptors on our website. Every now and again a new client will come to us and we'll help them commission the concept art, sculpts and(or) casting of miniatures. If you're interested in freelance work send some examples of your work and prices etc, to either myself or Dan (diquet).
                    >
                    > ~Oli
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "mrshortcutz" <suggus.tds@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi All,
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I have begun sculpting for commission work and have a question regarding the moulding process.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Although I am aware of looking out for undercuts, what's confusing me is the dividing line between the moulds when the model is cast.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I have received somewhat mixed messages about this on the forums and websites I've been on.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Some people advise me to sculpt as though the dividing plane is flat but when I look at many metal figures by company's like GW the dividing mould plane appears "wavy". (See images below)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/wavymoldline.jpg/
                    > >
                    > > http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/flatcasting.jpg/
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I can create far more dynamic poses if I can allow for the mould line to be "wavy". (I apologise for the simple terms, I am sure all you experienced sculptors out there know the technical names for what I am trying to describe.)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Can anyone give me any advise on this?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Thanks!
                    > > Gus
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "mrshortcutz" <suggus.tds@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Wow! Thanks Dan, that really clears a lot of stuff up.
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm feeling much more confident on sending my minis to be casted now. :P
                    > > >
                    > > > Although, I don't think that I'll be sending my Fimo/URO figures to be casted anytime soon. I'll be keeping it safe with good old Green Stuff for the time being.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks again!
                    > > > Gus
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, diquet@ wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Undercuts - if you were wearing a skirt, the space between your legs would be an undercut - in miniature terms you'd need to fill it with putty. You could get away with not filling it all the way to the hem, but only a millimetre or so at most.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > If the rubber from the mold goes too far 'into' the minaiture - I.e. Up the skirt (if you'll excuse the example!) Then eventually that bit of the rubber mold will tear off and ruin the mold and subsequent castings - hence the need to avoid undercuts.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Another example would be overlapping armour plates. You'd need to make sure you fill any voids between the plates.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > You also need to be mindful of the plane when you're sculpting - the mold consists of 2 flat plates, so you need to think about where the mold line will run around the model - you don't really want it running through the middle of the face for example.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Also, be careful about complex poses. A model with both arms outstretched in front of them holding a staff in both hands for example - this will create a hollow void at a tangent to the body. If you don't separate the arms and have it as a multi part model, you'll end up with the arms being trapped in the rubber and an unusable mold and possibly master too.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Best thing to do is look at how other companies supply their models - look for where parts are separated, where mold lines are etc.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Final point of note - if you're planning to use fimo or similar for your master, you may want to make sure the first mold is made using rtv rubber as the traditional vulcanising process (heat + pressure) does tend to result in a crumbled master! If the mold doesn't take first time, you won't get a second chance!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Sorry if that's a lot to take in (and a fair bit of doom and gloom talk of ruined models reading it back!) but hopefully there's a few useful bits that'll save you some heartache down the line.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Good luck!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Dan
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.