Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: FAQ discussion - start

Expand Messages
  • Ming-Hua
    ... help out with some rewrites/tightening, if you d like. That would be nice. I intend to do section by section and put the changed text directly into a WIP
    Message 1 of 28 , May 31, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      > Once the group decides what's good and needs to be included, I can
      help out with some rewrites/tightening, if you'd like.

      That would be nice. I intend to do section by section and put the
      changed text directly into a WIP faq.

      Bye, Ming-Hua
    • jimbob1066e
      howdy I too would be available for aide should the amount of work exceed what the kind Mr. Cooke has already offered. peace
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        howdy

        I too would be available for aide should the amount of work exceed
        what the kind Mr. Cooke has already offered.

        peace
      • Ming-Hua
        Jimbob, thanks for the offer. Ok, here is the first section: ************ 2.1 -What do you need to start sculpting? Sculpting does not take much in the way of
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 1, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Jimbob, thanks for the offer.

          Ok, here is the first section:

          ************
          2.1 -What do you need to start sculpting?
          Sculpting does not take much in the way of "stuff" to get you started.
          You need some tools, a bit of putty, and references.

          Toolwise, you need to have something to push putty around, something
          to bend and cut wires with, and something to stick the armature into.
          A basic sculpting tool kit would include a wax carver, a pair of
          pliers with a wire cutter, and a cork. See 5.2 for sources of tools.

          Kneadatite blue-yellow (a. k. a. "green stuff" or "GS") in combination
          with a harder putty like Milliput, A& B or AVES is the most common
          combination. All putties have their own unique properties and it's a
          good idea to play around with them to get to know the differences. See
          3.2 and 3.8 for descriptions and 5.1 for sources of putties.

          Sculpting means that you will be making something from scratch. The
          toughest thing about this is that you will need to really know what
          the subject looks like. Not being able to make something is not
          usually a technical problem -it happens because you don't know what
          you are trying to make well enough. This may sound obvious, but newbie
          sculptors/ artists tend to find out very fast how limited their own
          knowledge actually is. Good examples are faces and hands. You see them
          every day, so you would expect to know them thoroughly - and this is
          true enough for critical analysis. Still, these two essential parts of
          the anatomy are (for many people) the most difficult things to make.
          Because they have seen the subjects so often, they sense when
          something is wrong with what they are sculpting, but may not know the
          subject well enough to see what exactly is wrong. The converse of this
          can be see this with beginner sculptors that have experience in other
          arts or forms of sculpting. They will often make very good first
          sculpts even if they have never sculpted before because they already
          have the knowledge of their subjects and the instincts needed to break
          them down into their component shapes. It will take a while for
          beginners to develop this, so (in the beginning) you'll need to get
          and study references: books, websites, articles, and especially
          pictures are useful. You need to know anatomy,
          proportions, movement, poses, clothing and its behaviour, weapons and
          their useage, textures, etc. The "books" file (See Section 5.3) in the
          FAQ folder gives suggestions on where to find all this.

          Once you've gotten everything you need, you can start sculpting.
          Getting "down and sirty" is really the only way to learn. (Theory
          counts for a lot, but if your fingers don't know what to do, all the
          theory in the world won't help you.)
          Design something and make it. It doesn't matter if it is a whole
          sculpt or a conversion. (Often, conversions are easier because only
          small parts need to be sculpted.) Get used to the tools and the
          materials -then practice, practice, practice.
          If you want to, you can practice on reusable materials like Blue-Tac,
          plasticene, or polymer clays. Do note though that these materials
          behave differently from epoxy putty.

          You should also develop your skills of observation. Seeing what
          something really is shaped like (and not "looks like") should become
          second-nature so that you can instinctively get the sculpt right. This
          will come with study, practice, and experience. It sometimes occurs in
          a kind of "Eureka!" moment when it all suddenly fits together.
          **********

          I'm thinking it would be a good idea to split this up in "what do I
          need to start", "what do I need to learn" and "what course should I
          take".

          **********
          2.2 -Some tips for starters

          Sculpting is basically getting the right volume of putty in the right
          place and pushing it into the right shape. Keep this in mind.
          You have to get used to using the putty. This is especially true of
          Kneadatite blue-yellow (i. e. Green Stuff) because of its elasticity.
          It can be frustrating at first, but don't despair - you'll get there
          in the end. Once you've had some practice, you can experiment with
          mixing different putties together, as that's an way of changing the
          properties of the putties to match your needs. See 3.2, 3.8 and 3.15
          for more info on putties.
          Play around with the putty and tools. Experiment and learn! Remember,
          there is no special tool, technique, or secret that will turn you into
          a good sculptor. There are no Holy Grails . . . and there is no
          special magic. It all comes down to trying, sculpting, learning . . .
          and of course, practice, practice, practice. Patience can be quite
          helpful as well. See 3.6 for more info on tools.
          There is more than one way to do something. So don't be surprised to
          find out that different sculptors use different techniques and tools
          for the same thing.
          If a whole sculpt is too intimidating for you, start with a conversion
          or two first.
          If you have problems doing a human, try a monster. It's a more
          forgiving subject because proportions are a lot less important. Fully-
          clothed humans are easier to sculpt than nude ones because the cloth
          covers a lot of the details. Learn about proportions and anatomy.
          Drawing anatomy books are good for this. See 4.11, 4.18 and 5.3.
          Visualize what you want to make. Try the pose yourself in front of a
          mirror, and make some sketches. Get some reference pics together, if
          you need to. Don't expect to be able to do it all by heart on the
          first try. Even once you're experienced, you will find that you need
          references from time to time. See 5.3.
          Don't mix too much putty at once. You can only work on small sections,
          since you only have 1-1.5 hours before the putty is hard. A ball
          smaller than a pea will normally be plenty unless you're fleshing out
          something (that is, building up volume without much care for details).
          Learn to observe and visualize. Look around you and study what
          everything really looks like. The general shapes, the surfaces, the
          lines, the details, etc. Making this a habit will make it easier to
          visualize what you are going to make when you are sculpting. And while
          visualization is probably the most difficult thing to learn in art,
          it's also pretty much the most important thing.
          Don't worry if your first sculpt didn't come out well. Don't throw it
          out! Just try another. Don't forget, every sculptor was a beginner
          once. :^) Old sculpts are good for parts, inspiration, or just to
          compare to see how much you have improved.
          If some part of the sculpt is really "wrong", don't feel bad about
          removing and redoing it. This can be done with a sharp knife. If it's
          really a painful loss, put it aside and try again. Don't throw it
          away.
          Finish your sculpt. Even if it's disappointing. Finishing a sculpt is
          one of the steps you have to get across.
          Don't be discouraged if you see others making much better first
          sculpts than you do. Not everybody starts at the same level and some
          people learn faster. Those who have an art background have an
          advantage for instance since they have already been trained to
          visualise things.
          Repeat to yourself: sculpting is fun! :^)
          ********

          Bye, Ming-Hua
        • Brian Cooke
          ... I agree, I think it will be easier to digest for first-time sculptors. I also think perhaps we should bullet-point the tips in the next section, to
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 1, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            > I'm thinking it would be a good idea to split this up in "what do I
            > need to start", "what do I need to learn" and "what course should I
            > take".
            >

            I agree, I think it will be easier to digest for first-time sculptors.


            I also think perhaps we should bullet-point the tips in the next
            section, to separate them a bit and make them a bit easier to read.

            -Brian
          • Ming-Hua
            ... Oops, sorry. It looks like the copy-paste didn t copy the bullets. Any additions to the text, corrections, anyone? Bye, Ming-Hua
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 2, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              > I also think perhaps we should bullet-point the tips in the next
              > section, to separate them a bit and make them a bit easier to read.

              Oops, sorry. It looks like the copy-paste didn't copy the bullets.

              Any additions to the text, corrections, anyone?

              Bye, Ming-Hua
            • Zygore (G)
              Hi All I think Getting down and sirty is really the only way to learn. (Theory should read down and dirty Zygore
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 2, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi All

                I think

                Getting "down and sirty" is really the only way to learn. (Theory

                should read

                "down and dirty"


                Zygore
              • jppatton1@aol.com
                Hi M-H and all, I ve got a copy of this section in MS Word right now, and I m playing around a bit with the language. What s the aim of changing the FAQ,
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 2, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi M-H and all,

                  I've got a copy of this section in MS Word right now, and I'm playing
                  around a bit with the language. What's the aim of changing the FAQ, exactly?
                  Streamlining and adding new information?

                  I can try and bring my tech writing teaching to bear on this, and I've been
                  looking at manuscripts for friends all week, by an odd coincidence, so I'm
                  primed. I just need a goal and some reminders not to be so damned lazy. :)

                  Joel


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ming-Hua
                  ... adding new information? Yup, you got it. I also intend to make a kind of extract as a beginner s FAQ. Note, we re still discussing if anything should be
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 2, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > What's the aim of changing the FAQ, exactly? Streamlining and
                    adding new information?

                    Yup, you got it. I also intend to make a kind of extract as a
                    beginner's FAQ.

                    Note, we're still discussing if anything should be addded so more info
                    can be forthcoming. Still, if you can rewrite that bit we can see how
                    well the new format works.

                    Bye, Ming-Hua
                  • Brian Cooke
                    Huh...I d say run with it then, since you ve already started. I believe Ming is awaiting not just our feedback, but also feedback from some other groups as
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 2, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Huh...I'd say run with it then, since you've already started. I
                      believe Ming is awaiting not just our feedback, but also feedback
                      from some other groups as well.

                      -Brian


                      --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, jppatton1@a... wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi M-H and all,
                      >
                      > I've got a copy of this section in MS Word right now, and I'm
                      playing
                      > around a bit with the language. What's the aim of changing the
                      FAQ, exactly?
                      > Streamlining and adding new information?
                      >
                      > I can try and bring my tech writing teaching to bear on this, and
                      I've been
                      > looking at manuscripts for friends all week, by an odd coincidence,
                      so I'm
                      > primed. I just need a goal and some reminders not to be so damned
                      lazy. :)
                      >
                      > Joel
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • jppatton1@aol.com
                      In a message dated 6/3/2005 10:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... OK -- I held off for now, since I wasn t sure exactly what was going on, but I may take a
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 3, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        In a message dated 6/3/2005 10:00:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                        1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com writes:

                        > Note, we're still discussing if anything should be addded so more info
                        > can be forthcoming. Still, if you can rewrite that bit we can see how
                        > well the new format works.

                        OK -- I held off for now, since I wasn't sure exactly what was going on,
                        but I may take a crack at it (since there's probably not a whole lot of new
                        stuff for that section).

                        Joel
                        http://www.minutiae-minis.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ming-Hua
                        Hi, I ve made some changes to the first two sections and send them to Joel so he can check it. We ll be back with the revised version soon. Here are the next
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 3, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi,

                          I've made some changes to the first two sections and send them to Joel
                          so he can check it. We'll be back with the revised version soon. Here
                          are the next two:

                          ***********
                          2.3 -What are some general steps when sculpting a figure?
                          There are several ways of tackling the process of getting started.
                          Here is one common method:
                          - First, make an armature and plug it into a cork.
                          - Apply a thin layer of putty (to harden the armature) and let it
                          cure.
                          - You can add more putty to create some volume in advance (bulking
                          out).

                          Then a possible order to sculpt is (let cure after each step):
                          - First, sculpt one leg.
                          - Then, do the other leg.
                          - Next, sculpt the torso.
                          - Depending on the pose/ type of figure, either the arms or the head
                          should come next.
                          - Finally, add the hair and last details.

                          Sculpt the surface as clean and smooth as you can. For example, sculpt
                          the leg completely and smooth everything. Then, work the surface
                          texture into it, such as pressing folds into cloth, working the ankles
                          out of the wet green stuff by pushing/thrusting, adding grooves in
                          chain mail, etc. Do this in small careful steps and don't forget that
                          if you push in one side, then something will get distorted somewhere
                          else. Don't forget to fix this if it is needed. Don't try to do more
                          than you can within the curing time of the putty - once the cure is
                          underway, you might tear it instead of pushing it. Try not to mix up
                          too much or you will just waste it. It's worthwhile to start a large
                          (long-term) project just to have
                          someplace to stick small bits of mixed putty that you can't use at the
                          current moment (they go to bulking up the large project).

                          2.4 How do I sculpt...?
                          This is quite a common question and while in some cases it's a matter
                          of technique (like with chainmail), in many cases it's unfamiliarity
                          with the subject. Faces and hands are prime examples. You see them
                          every day but when you want to sculpt them you just don't seem to be
                          able to get it right. The reason is because you know them well enough
                          to see that you're doing them wrong but not good enough to see what
                          you're doing wrong. The only solution to this is to really study the
                          subject. Check books and photo's. Look in drawing and sculpting books
                          to see how other people do them and what the basic shapes are. Try to
                          clearly visualize what you want to make. And then try again.

                          Keep this in mind when you're reading any of the "how do I sculpt"
                          questions in this FAQ or when you have such a question yourself.
                          ***********

                          A reply as in 2.4 has already been given in 2.1 but since it's a
                          common question it has been added here. Perhaps it should be shortened
                          and refer to that section in 2.1.

                          Bye, Ming-Hua
                        • Zurik
                          ... wrote: [snip] ... shortened ... I think that reply in 2.4 is important and well-put. It certainly bears repeating. The length of the reply is fine, IMO.
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 3, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "Ming-Hua" <minimaker3@y...>
                            wrote:
                            [snip]
                            > A reply as in 2.4 has already been given in 2.1 but since it's a
                            > common question it has been added here. Perhaps it should be
                            shortened
                            > and refer to that section in 2.1.
                            >
                            > Bye, Ming-Hua

                            I think that reply in 2.4 is important and well-put. It certainly
                            bears repeating. The length of the reply is fine, IMO. It's one of
                            those things I need to keep telling myself until it sinks in and
                            becomes second nature, I think.
                          • BatHead207@AOL.com
                            How about a section of tips and secrets from the pros ? Cliff Linton Sculptor for Mega Miniatures http://discounthobby.com/, and for Grim Reaper Casting s
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 3, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              How about a section of tips and secrets from the pros ?

                              Cliff Linton
                              Sculptor for Mega Miniatures
                              http://discounthobby.com/,
                              and for Grim Reaper Casting's "Nasteez" line of Fantasy miniatures
                              <A HREF="mailto:grc1991@...">mailto:grc1991@...</A>
                              <A HREF="mailto:BatHead207@...">mailto:BatHead207@...</A>
                              Phone: 1(610) 998-9277
                              Fax: 1(610) 998-9279
                              <A HREF="http://www.grimreapercasting.com">http://www.grimreapercasting.com</A>


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ming-Hua
                              Hi, not too many comments on 2.3 and 2.4 (thanks Zurik) so I ll leave them the way they are. Cliff, tips by professionals sounds great, I ll add that to the
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 6, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi,

                                not too many comments on 2.3 and 2.4 (thanks Zurik) so I'll leave them
                                the way they are. Cliff, tips by professionals sounds great, I'll add
                                that to the list of additions.

                                Next two are up.

                                *************
                                Section 3: Tools and Materials

                                3.1 -What types of wire can I use for armatures?
                                You can use almost any type of solid metal wire, such as copper,
                                brass, florists' wire, paper clips, or fuse wire. Just make sure that
                                it is bare metal and not coated with plastic or anything else. The
                                wire needs to be rigid enough to give support, but soft enough to be
                                bent into shape with a pair of pliers. As to size, this depends on
                                your useage. For 15mm, you could use 0.6mm (0.024"), while a diameter
                                of 0.8 mm (0.03") could be used for up to 30mm. It's also possible to
                                use a thick wire for the legs and body and a thinner wire for the arms
                                and head. Brass, copper and fuse wires can be bought at hardware and
                                DIY stores. Brass rods can also be bought at scale modeling stores
                                (where you can also find brass sheets and profiles). See 4.1 for
                                details on making armatures.

                                3.2 -What are the putties/ mediums that are used for sculpting by
                                members of the group?
                                A little bit of history: In the earlier days, masters for miniatures
                                were either done in wax or carved in solder. Around1970, epoxy putties
                                began to be used that could withstand vulcanization (like A&B).
                                Originally developed as plumbers'putties, these were well-suited for
                                sculpting. In 1973, Tom Meier was the first person to start sculpting
                                in Green Stuff(i.e. Blue-Yellow Kneadatite) after a misunderstanding.
                                In his words:

                                "The material my figure was made from was called E-POX-E putty - a
                                blue and yellow ribbon. I had chosen it because of a conversation with
                                Stan Glanzer (sp?) of Heritage Models (over a game of British
                                colonials) at a local convention. I asked him what the originals were
                                made of and he said, y [sic]. I chose the green (it turns green when
                                blended) putty by mistake."

                                The popularity of green stuff as a sculpting compound increased and
                                went worldwide. In 1993, the company that sold green stuff decided to
                                go to another manufacturer. The resulting putty turned out to be
                                useless for sculpting. By accident, Sandy Garrity found the original
                                manufacturer -- and from that point on, they started to sell it
                                directly as a sculpting putty. Nowadays, green stuff is probably the
                                most-used putty for miniatures.

                                Other epoxy putties are also used, as well as polymer clays and other
                                sculpting media.About the materials themselves: Epoxy putties are
                                supplied as two separate components, a filler and a hardener -- that
                                need to be mixed to cure. Curing is a chemical reaction and does not
                                need heat - though the speed of curing is influenced by it (See 3.5).
                                The putties can be divided into two rough groups: "flexible" putties
                                and "hard" putties.

                                "Flexible" putties remain a little flexible after curing - a bit like
                                very hard rubber. These putties have a bit of "memory"(they try to get
                                back to their original shape), which can take some getting used to.
                                This creates a certain amount of "feedback" when you sculpt, which
                                some sculptors find useful. The flexibility makes them better at
                                surviving the vulcanization process - and they are better for curved
                                "organic" shapes. They can also be easily cut after curing - but are
                                harder to sand and file. Some putties that belong to this group are:
                                Polymerics Kneadatite blue-yellow (aka green stuff).
                                Polymerics Kneadatite blue-white (aka white stuff).

                                "Hard" putties tend to be extremely hard after curing (some are even
                                rock-hard!). This can make them somewhat brittle, which can lead to
                                damaged masters after vulcanizing (they do produce good cavities
                                though). They can be easily filed and sanded, but can be a little more
                                difficult to cut. Applying too much force can cause smaller parts to
                                shatter. These putties are best for "mechanical" parts with sharp
                                angles and flat surfaces. Some putties belonging to this group are:
                                Milliput, A&B, Tamiya, Henkel Nural 34, Magic-sculp, Aves Apoxy
                                Sculpt, Andrea Sculpt and Grey matter.


                                There are also putties which combine a slight flexibility with the
                                possibility of sanding and filing. One example is Polymerics
                                Kneadatite brown-aluminum (aka brown stuff). The original formula was
                                also sold as Victor "Gas Tank Rrepair Kit" Code V915 and E19/A07.
                                Since late 2002, there is a new formula which makes the compound
                                easier to use in sculpting. See 3.8.

                                The putties mentioned are those most suitable for sculpting. There are
                                also a lot of other putties at do-it-yourself stores.These tend to be
                                cheaper but are less well-suited for sculpting because they can be too
                                sticky, don't take details well, become really, really hard, are
                                grainy, or are too brittle for vulcanization. They are often good
                                enough to use as a cheap bulking out material, though. See 3.8 and 3.
                                12 for more information sculpting.


                                There are also several fast-curing putties, such as Quickcopper (by
                                Polymerics), which are useful for quickly stiffening the armature and
                                bulking out the figure - however, they tend to cure too fast to do
                                fine detail sculpting with, apart from dry-sculpting (since they cure
                                rock-hard).

                                Putties can be blended together to create different properties. The
                                most popular blend is a 1:1 mix (equal amounts of each) of Kneadatite
                                blue-yellow and a "hard" putty, like Milliput. This combination is
                                somewhat stronger than the pure hard putty, plus it can be easily
                                sanded and filed after curing. You can also mix fillers and hardeners
                                from different putties to get other properties. Make sure you know
                                which component is the filler and which the hardener, though! Mixing
                                filler with filler will not cure. Another option is to vary the amount
                                of the components in the mix. For instance, by using more yellow than
                                blue with green stuff, you will get a stickier mixture that cures
                                softer.

                                Most sculptors on the list seem to use Kneadatite blue-yellow for
                                general work and Kneadatite brown-aluminium or a Kneadatite Blue-
                                yellow/hard putty mix for parts with sharp edges.

                                Polymer clays are PVC-based clays which will only cure when heated, as
                                heating evaporates the solvent. The advantages of this material over
                                epoxy putties are that (1) it is cheaper and (2) the sculptor has more
                                time to work. Some people also prefer the way it reacts to
                                manipulation while curing. It is often used for larger-sized figures.
                                A handy tip is that, like epoxy putty, you can heat the figure in
                                steps so that you don't destroy previously-sculpted areas by accident.
                                This can be done in an oven or even with a hairdryer. It needs to be
                                done carefully though, in order to avoid cracks. The disadvantages of
                                this material appear when the figure is to be used as the master of a
                                production figure. The pressure and heat of the vulcanized mold-making
                                process can make the master flake, deform, or shrink. It will often
                                not survive the process (i.e. no second chances). Modifications to the
                                process, like longer vulcanization combined with lower heat and using
                                soft rubber at a lower temperature, can give better results - but they
                                take more time; and in the latter case, result in a faster-wearing
                                mold. Another method is a two-step method in which a mold is first
                                made using room temperature vulcanizing (RTV) silicone rubber. A cast
                                in a vulcanizable material (like some resins, see 5.14) is then made,
                                which will be used to make a vulcanized rubber mold. Nevertheless,
                                there are companies that use Polymer clays for 28mm figures with very
                                good results -- Rackham and Fenryll are prime examples of this.


                                There are several brands of Polymer clays with sub-types that have
                                different properties. Super Sculpey, Promat, Premo, and Fimo soft have
                                been mentioned as clays that take detail very well. Sculpey III and
                                basic Fimo are much firmer to use. Fimo is water soluble, while you
                                need mineral spirits for others. The standard Sculpey remains soft and
                                vulnerable after baking and is not recommended for surface work.
                                Cernit and Creal-temp are two others that have been mentioned
                                as good sculpting clays. More information can be found in the many
                                polymer clay mailinglists and websites.

                                Remarks:

                                Duro used to be the old name for Kneadatite blue-yellow. In the US
                                there is still a putty called "Duro" (by Loctite) but it is not
                                Kneadatite! (Even if it's blue-yellow.) It's much more sticky and
                                grainy. In Europe, Kneadatite blue-yellow is still sometimes seen with
                                the name Duro on the label. It can be recognized as green putty by the
                                note on the package that it is formulated like the original "green
                                putty" and can state "Kneadatite" as well. The European distributor is
                                Sylmasta. In France, "Duro" is a more common name than "green stuff"
                                for Kneadatite blue-yellow.
                                Squadron sells 'green putty". This is a filler paste in a tube for
                                modeling purposes and not a sculpting putty.
                                Polymer clay is PVC-based and will give off chloride gas if burned, so
                                be careful to not overheat when baking.
                                Polymer clays and epoxy putties can be used together. See 3.15.
                                ***********

                                Any comments?

                                Bye, Ming-Hua

                                P.s. thanks for the comments on the badger. Arms do need some rework
                                since they were also a last moment change.
                              • Ming-Hua
                                Hi, no comments on these two sections? How many here use a Fimo/GS mix and how many of you have had experience with vulcanising it (baked and not baked)? Bye,
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jun 8, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi,

                                  no comments on these two sections?

                                  How many here use a Fimo/GS mix and how many of you have had
                                  experience with vulcanising it (baked and not baked)?

                                  Bye, Ming-Hua
                                • Iron Rook
                                  If my memory serves correctly, I believe a fimo/GS mix will lose some of it s tensile strength compared to a straight GS mix. During vulcanization this will
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jun 8, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    If my memory serves correctly, I believe a fimo/GS mix will lose some
                                    of it's tensile strength compared to a straight GS mix. During
                                    vulcanization this will become apparent wherever a part might tend to
                                    twist while being pressed. In other words rather than holding it's
                                    shape it's more likely to crack at a stress point. It also seems to
                                    lose resistance to compression so it is more likely to experience
                                    "thinning".


                                    On Jun 8, 2005, at 12:43 PM, Ming-Hua wrote:

                                    > Hi,
                                    >
                                    > no comments on these two sections?
                                    >
                                    > How many here use a Fimo/GS mix and how many of you have had
                                    > experience with vulcanising it (baked and not baked)?
                                    >
                                    > Bye, Ming-Hua
                                    >
                                  • Tomas Castaÿfffff1o
                                    Hi alls, For my experience both putties can be vulcanized (with wire armature inside). Tomas Ming-Hua escribió: Hi, no comments on
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jun 8, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi alls,
                                      For my experience both putties can be vulcanized (with wire armature inside).

                                      Tomas

                                      Ming-Hua <minimaker3@...> escribió:
                                      Hi,

                                      no comments on these two sections?

                                      How many here use a Fimo/GS mix and how many of you have had
                                      experience with vulcanising it (baked and not baked)?

                                      Bye, Ming-Hua




                                      ---------------------------------
                                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                                      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/1listSculpting/

                                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      1listSculpting-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                                      ---------------------------------

                                      Correo Yahoo!
                                      Comprueba qué es nuevo, aquí
                                      http://correo.yahoo.es

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Zurik
                                      ... I read them, but didn t really have anything to useful to add except to say it looks good and thanks for all the work! I haven t experimented much with
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jun 8, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "Ming-Hua" <minimaker3@y...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > Hi,
                                        >
                                        > no comments on these two sections?
                                        >
                                        > How many here use a Fimo/GS mix and how many of you have had
                                        > experience with vulcanising it (baked and not baked)?
                                        >
                                        > Bye, Ming-Hua

                                        I read them, but didn't really have anything to useful to add except
                                        to say it looks good and thanks for all the work!
                                        I haven't experimented much with different putty mixes, much less with
                                        putty/"clay" mixes (still trying to get a better handle on GS - lol).
                                      • bobsimian@aol.com
                                        my experience with it is that it should be left to cure overnight, then baked. that way the putty is set up, and less likely to bubble under the higher heat
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 8, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          my experience with it is that it should be left to cure overnight, then
                                          baked. that way the putty is set up, and less likely to bubble under the higher
                                          heat to set the fimo/sculpey/cernit.

                                          seems to vulcanize well, although it is a bit harder. mixing at 50/50 or
                                          less fimo seems to be best...hard and tough, not crumbly.


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Alf Vierth
                                          I experiment with as many different mixtures as possible. Currently I m trying to mix the white from magic sculpt with first the blue from the greenstuff and
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jun 9, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I experiment with as many different mixtures as possible. Currently I'm
                                            trying to mix the white from magic sculpt with first the blue from the
                                            greenstuff and then with the yellow. I'm doing likewise with the grey part
                                            from magic sculpt.
                                            So far I've still found pure normal green stuff best (Lately in combination
                                            with pure normal magic sculpt for hard edges) but I'm just a curious type of
                                            person :-)
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Zurik" <siragramore@...>
                                            To: <1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 2:50 AM
                                            Subject: [1listSculpting] Re: FAQ discussion - 3.1 and 3.2


                                            > --- In 1listSculpting@yahoogroups.com, "Ming-Hua" <minimaker3@y...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > > Hi,
                                            > >
                                            > > no comments on these two sections?
                                            > >
                                            > > How many here use a Fimo/GS mix and how many of you have had
                                            > > experience with vulcanising it (baked and not baked)?
                                            > >
                                            > > Bye, Ming-Hua
                                            >
                                            > I read them, but didn't really have anything to useful to add except
                                            > to say it looks good and thanks for all the work!
                                            > I haven't experimented much with different putty mixes, much less with
                                            > putty/"clay" mixes (still trying to get a better handle on GS - lol).
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Ming-Hua
                                            Hi, here are section 3.3 and 3.4. I ll be making some changes in 3.1 and 3.2 in this weekend. There are a few questions by me in the text below. *************
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jun 9, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi,

                                              here are section 3.3 and 3.4. I'll be making some changes in 3.1 and
                                              3.2 in this weekend.

                                              There are a few questions by me in the text below.

                                              *************
                                              3.3 -What materials can cause problems in the mouldmaking process?
                                              If a miniature is not going to be exposed to a vulcanized mould making
                                              process, then you are pretty much free in your choices of materials.
                                              Otherwise you have to take into account you need to use materials that
                                              can withstand a high temperature (about 350 Fahrenheit/ 177 degrees
                                              Centigrade) and pressure (about 50PSI/ 3.45 bar).

                                              First and most important rule: if in doubt, check with your mouldmaker
                                              before using the material.

                                              Some materials that can cause a problem:
                                              - Plastics (thermoplasts): These often have a softening- and melting
                                              temperature that is below what is used during mouldmaking.
                                              [Does anybody know if the name thermoplast is correct for English and
                                              what the correct name is for the "weakening temperature" (when it goes
                                              from solid to rubberphase) of plastics? I know these in Dutch but not
                                              in English.
                                              - Waxes: These melt.
                                              - Superglue: This liquefies which can affect the mold. It can work if
                                              covered with putty. Check this with the mold-maker as some do not seem
                                              to be troubled by it. See 3.14.
                                              - Resin: Depends on the material and casting quality. You have to be
                                              careful about enclosed air bubbles. These would collapse during
                                              vulcanization of the mold. See 5.14.
                                              - Metal tubes: These can collapse under the pressure and if they are
                                              enclosed on both sides, the seals on the ends can pop off. If tubes
                                              are used, then they should be totally filled with putty for support
                                              and to avoid enclosed air spaces.
                                              - Lead and other soft metals: These can deform under pressure. It's
                                              better to use brass or another stiff metal.
                                              - Aluminium: This can sometimes be a problem.
                                              [What was the problem with Aluminium again?]
                                              - Brittle materials like certain clays: they can crumble or explode
                                              from impurities overheating.
                                              - Ren Shape: It's porous and will fill up with rubber, which makes
                                              cleaning the mold a problem.
                                              - Wood: Saps and resins in the wood can damage the rubber or boil off,
                                              causing deformations and possible ruptures.
                                              - Low-Melt Alloys: Make sure that, whatever metal you use for parts,
                                              the melting temperature is above the vulcanization temperature.
                                              - Polymer clay: not every moldmaker can handle this material. See 3.15

                                              This does not mean that a mold can not be made if parts are made of
                                              these materials. There are different techniques for this, such making
                                              a cast of it first, using a room temperature vulcanizing rubber mould
                                              or using a vulcanization process at lower temperatures -but not all
                                              mold-makers are willing to or can go to this extra effort.

                                              If there is no need to use these materials I'd avoid them to avoid
                                              problems for the mouldmaker.
                                              Back to Index

                                              3.4 -How long is Kneadatite workable?
                                              Depending on the ambient temperature and age, Kneadatite (and most
                                              other) putties are on average workable for about 1-2 hours. You have
                                              about half an hour in which the putty is very "soft". After that, it
                                              becomes more and more rigid and rubbery as time passes. This phase can
                                              still be used for sculpting, though. You can "cut in" sharp( er)
                                              details and work with burnishers. It can also be useful for drapery
                                              effects. A full cure is complete after 24 hours.

                                              If you need to stop sculpting for a little while, you can put the
                                              mixed putty in the freezer. It will remain workable that way for some
                                              time, as the chemical reaction is slowed down (but does not stop!).
                                              Bob Lippman noted that mixed putty in the freezer will only be usable
                                              for 1-2 days. After that, it will remain soft, but will be unusable
                                              for sculpting.
                                              Back to Index
                                              ****************

                                              Comments?

                                              Bye, Ming-Hua
                                            • Iron Rook
                                              ... I usually start with about 2000PSI for pressure and it increases to about 3000PSI from heat expansion before it is finished. Softer silicone rubber can be
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jun 9, 2005
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                On Jun 9, 2005, at 1:23 PM, Ming-Hua wrote:

                                                > Hi,
                                                >
                                                > here are section 3.3 and 3.4. I'll be making some changes in 3.1 and
                                                > 3.2 in this weekend.
                                                >
                                                > There are a few questions by me in the text below.
                                                >
                                                > *************
                                                > 3.3 -What materials can cause problems in the mouldmaking process?
                                                > If a miniature is not going to be exposed to a vulcanized mould making
                                                > process, then you are pretty much free in your choices of materials.
                                                > Otherwise you have to take into account you need to use materials that
                                                > can withstand a high temperature (about 350 Fahrenheit/ 177 degrees
                                                > Centigrade) and pressure (about 50PSI/ 3.45 bar).
                                                > [snip]

                                                I usually start with about 2000PSI for pressure and it increases to
                                                about 3000PSI from heat expansion before it is finished. Softer
                                                silicone rubber can be done with 1000PSI to 1500PSI.
                                              • Jeff Valent
                                                I am with Iron Rook on these numbers although we start a little lower some times, around 1800psi Jeff ... -- Life s journey is not to arrive at the grave
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jun 9, 2005
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  I am with Iron Rook on these numbers although we start a little lower
                                                  some times, around 1800psi

                                                  Jeff

                                                  Iron Rook wrote on 6/9/2005, 2:42 PM:

                                                  > I usually start with about 2000PSI for pressure and it increases to
                                                  > about 3000PSI from heat expansion before it is finished. Softer
                                                  > silicone rubber can be done with 1000PSI to 1500PSI.


                                                  --
                                                  Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved
                                                  body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting
                                                  "...holy shit...what a ride!"
                                                • Ming-Hua
                                                  Hi, thanks for the corrections. That s one of the reasons I m going over the FAQ right now. :) How long are greens exposed to pressure and heat during the
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jun 9, 2005
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Hi,

                                                    thanks for the corrections. That's one of the reasons I'm going over
                                                    the FAQ right now. :)

                                                    How long are greens exposed to pressure and heat during the process?

                                                    Bye, Ming-Hua
                                                  • Jeff Valent
                                                    55 minutes to an hour usually Jeff ... -- Life s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jun 9, 2005
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      55 minutes to an hour usually

                                                      Jeff

                                                      Ming-Hua wrote on 6/9/2005, 5:31 PM:

                                                      > Hi,
                                                      >
                                                      > thanks for the corrections. That's one of the reasons I'm going over
                                                      > the FAQ right now. :)
                                                      >
                                                      > How long are greens exposed to pressure and heat during the process?
                                                      >
                                                      > Bye, Ming-Hua
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >

                                                      --
                                                      Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved
                                                      body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting
                                                      "...holy shit...what a ride!"
                                                    • BatHead207@AOL.com
                                                      In a message dated 06/09/2005 2:26:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Also, wood can compress badly under the pressures inherent in the vulcanization process,
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Jun 10, 2005
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        In a message dated 06/09/2005 2:26:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                        minimaker3@... writes:


                                                        > - Wood: Saps and resins in the wood can damage the rubber or boil off,
                                                        > causing deformations and possible ruptures.
                                                        >

                                                        Also, wood can compress badly under the pressures inherent in the
                                                        vulcanization process, resulting in distortion of the piece.
                                                        Cliff Linton
                                                        Sculptor for Mega Miniatures
                                                        http://discounthobby.com/,
                                                        and for Grim Reaper Casting's "Nasteez" line of Fantasy miniatures
                                                        <A HREF="mailto:grc1991@...">mailto:grc1991@...</A>
                                                        <A HREF="mailto:BatHead207@...">mailto:BatHead207@...</A>
                                                        Phone: 1(610) 998-9277
                                                        Fax: 1(610) 998-9279
                                                        <A HREF="http://www.grimreapercasting.com">http://www.grimreapercasting.com</A>


                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.