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Re: [1curanderismo] Re: Spam

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  • E Bryant Holman
    Okay. Well I have changed the settings, so any moderators here will be notified of messages which need approval first whenever anyone new signs up a sends
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 27, 2006
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      Okay. Well I have changed the settings, so any moderators here will be notified of messages which need approval first whenever anyone new signs up a sends something to the list. So the important thing is that these newcomers not be made to wait to long. Also, if the first time they post, their post is a good one, then they need to have their status changed to post without being moderated.
       
      Thanks
       
      Bryant
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: lapapu
      Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 12:42 PM
      Subject: [1curanderismo] Re: Spam

      Hi, Bryant,


        I just got the message in my box that "sexy . . . "[I'll just bet]
      had joined the group, too late to ban the guy, but I did delete his
      post from the message board.  I would have banned him purely based on
      his handle, without reading his messages, by the way!  (Some people
      have ENTIRELY TOO MUCH time on their hands to be able to waste it
      polluting message boards, and if they choose a handle like that they
      deserve to be kicked off boards!)

        As a matter of fact, I'd written Laurisa thanking her for her
      message re the jerk.  I'd intended to ban the guy, and had intended to
      delete her message as well to keep the archives on topic, but . . . as
      you've addressed this, I'll leave her post alone . . . .  One of these
      days, I'll learn to skim ALL following messages to see if things have
      been taken care of.

        I'd be willing to do furhter moderation.  

       
        Regards,


         lapapu  (whose a little cranky, what with willful idiots polluting
      message boards and all.)

      --- In 1curanderismo@yahoogroups.com, "E Bryant Holman" <bryanth@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Yes, we know that someone spammed the group. I immediately banned
      that person, but they signed up and sent the spam right away and there
      is not much we can do about that. What I want to do is to make it
      where all new members have to be moderated until they post the first
      time and we can see if they are spammers or not. But I need a fulltime
      moderator to help me with this. Any volunteers?
      >
      > Bryant
      >   ----- Original Message -----
      >   From: laurisa mw
      >   To: 1curanderismo@yahoogroups.com
      >   Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:20 AM
      >   Subject: [1curanderismo] Re: from Laurisa
      >
      >
      >   Bryan:
      >   Best wishes and many blessings! Thank you for having this
      important site which benefits many!
      >   I am writing because I just received a "spam" notice under your
      yahoo group
      >         sexysingles_001   [1curanderismo] Looking for a better SEX
      partner! 
      >   I did not open the e-mail, and I thought that you should know:
      >
      >   Laurisa
      >   Curandera Maya
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >   New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC
      and save big.
      >
      >
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      >     a..  Visit your group "1curanderismo" on the web.
      >      
      >     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >      1curanderismo-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >      
      >     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      Service.
      >
      >
      >
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >




    • laurisa mw
      Hola, Personally I cannot tell you if she is a charlatana or not. Having witnessed and participated in some of her ceremonies, I know that she did not do
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 27, 2006
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        Hola,
        Personally I cannot tell you if she is a "charlatana" or not.  Having  witnessed and participated in some of her ceremonies,  I know that she did not do anything that could be offensive to the traditions or "invented" by her in order to promote herself as a curandera.  I have not finished reading her book but I understand that the book is mostly her autobiography, and it was written in collaboration with some one else.  During the ceremonies that she conducted I did not see that her attitude or behaviour was mockery or lack of respect to the rituals.  I know this because I have   worked with people who were "authentic" practitioners of Aztec and Conchera traditions.
        It is my personal approach to have a ceremony before I engage in any kind of apprenticeship and this provides me with the guidance to proceed or not, and prior to joining her I was given "the green light" to  go ahead.
        I will let you know when I finish whether I found what I was looking for in her classes or not.
        Muchas bendiciones,
        Laurisa


        Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
      • E Bryant Holman
        I really don t think that the items you point to are any indications of whether she is a fraud or not. Most new age plastic shamans pretty much put on the same
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 27, 2006
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          I really don't think that the items you point to are any indications of whether she is a fraud or not. Most new age plastic shamans pretty much put on the same sort of presentation. There is not going to be any sort of mocking attitudes or anything of that sort.
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 1:33 PM
          Subject: Re: [1curanderismo] Re: from Laurisa

          Hola,
          Personally I cannot tell you if she is a "charlatana" or not.  Having  witnessed and participated in some of her ceremonies,  I know that she did not do anything that could be offensive to the traditions or "invented" by her in order to promote herself as a curandera.  I have not finished reading her book but I understand that the book is mostly her autobiography, and it was written in collaboration with some one else.  During the ceremonies that she conducted I did not see that her attitude or behaviour was mockery or lack of respect to the rituals.  I know this because I have   worked with people who were "authentic" practitioners of Aztec and Conchera traditions.
          It is my personal approach to have a ceremony before I engage in any kind of apprenticeship and this provides me with the guidance to proceed or not, and prior to joining her I was given "the green light" to  go ahead.
          I will let you know when I finish whether I found what I was looking for in her classes or not.
          Muchas bendiciones,
          Laurisa


          Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

        • laurisa mw
          HI, It is of my opinion that anytime that anyone pretends that is conducting a ritual and it is not conducted improperly for whatever reason, it is a
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 27, 2006
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            HI,
            It is of my opinion that anytime that anyone "pretends" that is conducting a ritual and it is not conducted improperly for whatever reason, it is a disrespect to the deities/sants that are supposed to be honored. Mockery implies to make sport of, mimic, satirize, pretend, etc.  Thus if anyone claims to be someone who is not (curandero, shaman, etc), that person by virtue of not being "the real thing" is mocking the traditions. 
            I am not in a position to judge anyone for I only know who I am.  When the experience presents itself to me to work with someone, I try to bring an open mind without judgment.  I don't know Teresa Avila as a person, only as a ceremonial leader.  It is too early for me to determine whether she is "too new age," or not.  Ultimately I will be given the insight to learn only what will ring true  and what I can incorporate into my spiritual work.  If it turns out that there is nothing that I can incorporate to my work, at least I would learn to recognize what is correct or not and that is a very valuable lesson. 
            Every day of our lives we are learning to connect with our Spirit, sometimes there are people who can teach/guide us, other  times we are learning from Nature and other living beings - animals, plants, crystals, minerals, etc.
            May each be blessed with the knowledge that is being searched for and with the wisdom to use that knowledge. Asi sera!
            Laurisa


            Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.
          • E Bryant Holman
            Her name is not Teresa. I think you are confusing her with the famous catholic saint of that name. I think that you do not share the same view of curanderismo
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 27, 2006
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              Her name is not Teresa. I think you are confusing her with the famous catholic saint of that name.
               
              I think that you do not share the same view of curanderismo that we do. It is true that in Mexico there are just as many frauds as there are anywhere, and there are new agers of all sorts, too, like Walter Mercado, for instance. So just because someone is operating on Mexican soil or has a Spanish surname, in my opinion, does not entitle them to call themselves a curandero or curandera within the difinition that we use here. This list could have been taken over by new agers a long time ago if we had allowed it, but we have chosen to avoid that sort of thing. We are interested in what traditional curanderos and curanderas in the Mexican tradition are doing, and we have been investigating that and trying to separate it from modern influences and the influences of hoaxes and frauds ever since we started. I think that many of us also support the work of groups like the Native American (Indian) activist group NAFPS which seeks to educate people about the cultural plundering of the religions and spiritual practices of Indigenous peoples, and I have had the honor of working with them specifically on the matter of this practice when it comes to Latin America and especially Mexico. There is actually a Mexican government agency which organizes sort of conventions between traditional Indigenous curanderos, and the delegate from the Tarahumara tribe, who is an amazing curandero, is a good friend of mine. I can assure everyone that they frown in all of this cultural plunder just as much as do their friends who are also Indigenous people north of the border. We feel that this is a real issue.
               
              What bothers me is that Avila is connected with just about every known new age guru around, including a lot who are considered to be pariahs by NAFPS. The very fact that she endorses and claims to give legitimacy to people who are being decried as frauds by the tribal councils of such as those of the Comanches, the Hopi, and the Lakota, just to name a few, raises a lot of red flags as far as I am concerned. To me, if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
               
              Bryant
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:35 PM
              Subject: Re: [1curanderismo] Re: from Laurisa

              HI,
              It is of my opinion that anytime that anyone "pretends" that is conducting a ritual and it is not conducted improperly for whatever reason, it is a disrespect to the deities/sants that are supposed to be honored. Mockery implies to make sport of, mimic, satirize, pretend, etc.  Thus if anyone claims to be someone who is not (curandero, shaman, etc), that person by virtue of not being "the real thing" is mocking the traditions. 
              I am not in a position to judge anyone for I only know who I am.  When the experience presents itself to me to work with someone, I try to bring an open mind without judgment.  I don't know Teresa Avila as a person, only as a ceremonial leader.  It is too early for me to determine whether she is "too new age," or not.  Ultimately I will be given the insight to learn only what will ring true  and what I can incorporate into my spiritual work.  If it turns out that there is nothing that I can incorporate to my work, at least I would learn to recognize what is correct or not and that is a very valuable lesson. 
              Every day of our lives we are learning to connect with our Spirit, sometimes there are people who can teach/guide us, other  times we are learning from Nature and other living beings - animals, plants, crystals, minerals, etc.
              May each be blessed with the knowledge that is being searched for and with the wisdom to use that knowledge. Asi sera!
              Laurisa


              Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone.

            • laurisa mw
              You are right I confused the last name, and I am sure that St. Teresa de Avila must be turning in her grave because of my error. It is always good to know that
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 28, 2006
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                You are right I confused the last name, and I am sure that St. Teresa de Avila must be turning in her grave because of my error.
                 It is always good to know that there are still  people who are watching for the maintenance of the traditions. I was privileged last year to be an honored guest in the very powerful pow wow that took place in Washington DC in August.  It had been a great number of years since the last time an event of this magnitude had taken place in DC.  The previous year had been the official inauguration of the Museum of Native Americans of the Smithsonian Institute and all the effort and hard work from that inauguration resulted in the Pow Wow. This event was so powerful that after all the dancing and drumming that took place for three days, that area which was suffering from lack of rain, received a rain storm. 
                 I work very closely with a Cherokee Elder and was commissioned by her and a group of Elders to translate a Holy Book about their visions.  Just as their book took a lot of time to be written because it was always done through sacred ceremonies,  I can only work on the translation  after purifying ceremonies.  The complete translated work will also be exhibited in the Smithsonian when is finished. 
                We all contribute to the keeping of the traditions by respecting them and honoring them.  We do not have to be part of a particular ethnic group to  learn and honor their traditions.  Spirit will always take care of weeding the charlatans and quacks.
                Thank you for your generosity in having this group. 
                May all be blessed!
                Laurisa


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              • E Bryant Holman
                I am glad that you feel that way. Since I started working with NAFPS, I and some of their main activists there have been trying to find a way of accommodating
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 28, 2006
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                  I am glad that you feel that way. Since I started working with NAFPS, I and some of their main activists there have been trying to find a way of accommodating what we think is something of a problem, in that people are actually cut off from their spiritual roots, and that they are looking to either find them again or find something that replaces them. We feel that these people are being exploited, quite simply, by cultural plunderers. It is a very involved sort of problem that we are trying to tackle, and we have come up with a lot of ideas that I think address this. I will try to explain more about this when I get a chance.
                   
                  I first made contact with these people as a result of one of them finding me after I had allowed myself to be interviewed (and I think the interview is still up on the internet) by a person who is on NAFPS's sort of "hit list" of phoney "Indian Shamans" (who claims to be representing the Cherokee, by the way). When I was being interviewed I found myself contradicting practically everything that had been said by people he had formerly inerviewed who were talking about roughly the same subjects I was interested in. Also, I noticed that practically all of the "Indian Shamans" whose pictures he had on his website were obviously White Folks!
                   
                  I would recommend to anyone who is interested in the topic of phoney Indian shamans to read the classic book on the subject, "Going Native or Going Naive" by Dagmar Wernitznig. (We simply refer to this book as "Dagmar" when we made reference to it in discussion).
                   
                  To understand, now, how so much of this culture is tied up with this mythical representation of Mexican Indian culture, I think that the numerous exposes of the notorious fraud Carlos Castaneda would give anyone a very good background on how this business has evolved, or at least where the seeds of it lie.
                   
                  Bryant
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:23 AM
                  Subject: Re: [1curanderismo] Re: from Laurisa

                  You are right I confused the last name, and I am sure that St. Teresa de Avila must be turning in her grave because of my error.
                   It is always good to know that there are still  people who are watching for the maintenance of the traditions. I was privileged last year to be an honored guest in the very powerful pow wow that took place in Washington DC in August.  It had been a great number of years since the last time an event of this magnitude had taken place in DC.  The previous year had been the official inauguration of the Museum of Native Americans of the Smithsonian Institute and all the effort and hard work from that inauguration resulted in the Pow Wow. This event was so powerful that after all the dancing and drumming that took place for three days, that area which was suffering from lack of rain, received a rain storm. 
                   I work very closely with a Cherokee Elder and was commissioned by her and a group of Elders to translate a Holy Book about their visions.  Just as their book took a lot of time to be written because it was always done through sacred ceremonies,  I can only work on the translation  after purifying ceremonies.  The complete translated work will also be exhibited in the Smithsonian when is finished. 
                  We all contribute to the keeping of the traditions by respecting them and honoring them.  We do not have to be part of a particular ethnic group to  learn and honor their traditions.  Spirit will always take care of weeding the charlatans and quacks.
                  Thank you for your generosity in having this group. 
                  May all be blessed!
                  Laurisa


                  Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

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