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Re: [18xx] Re: 18?? Destination run question (to Allen)

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  • allen stancius
    well bruce, since you know that i cannot see the board, then your statement is irrelevant. but since Allen Sli has explained it, then you have your answer to
    Message 1 of 5 , May 1, 2012
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      well bruce, since you know that i "cannot" see the board, then your
      statement is irrelevant.
      but since Allen Sli has explained it, then you have your answer to your
      question don't you?
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mike Coyne" <mpcoyne@...>
      To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 6:20 PM
      Subject: Re: [18xx] Re: 18?? Destination run question (to Allen)


      Again, this comment of Bruce's was meant for Allen Stancius, not Allen
      Sliwinski. Sheesh, so confusing!


      Mike Coyne
      mpcoyne@...




      -----Original Message-----
      From: Allen Sli <allensli@...>
      To: 18xx <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 8:57 pm
      Subject: RE: [18xx] Re: 18?? Destination run question (to Allen)


      Since I think that you know the answer, this appears to be a pointed
      question,
      ut I don't know what it is pointed at. In 18?? the four corner red off-board
      ocations have two entrances, and the the two center ones have three
      entrances.

      llen S.
      --- On Mon, 4/30/12, Beard, Bruce D. <bruce_d_beard@...> wrote:

      rom: Beard, Bruce D. <bruce_d_beard@...>
      ubject: RE: [18xx] Re: 18?? Destination run question (to Allen)
      o: "18xx@yahoogroups.com" <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
      ate: Monday, April 30, 2012, 7:23 PM

      n 1870, you can run 4 trains out of Dallas or Fort Worth or St. Louis,
      Allen.
      an you run 4 trains out of SE, SW, or Denver? The destinations in ?? are
      off
      oard red areas.
      -Bruce
      ________________________________
      rom: 18xx@yahoogroups.com [18xx@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of allen stancius
      astancius@...]
      ent: Monday, April 30, 2012 3:26 PM
      o: 18xx@yahoogroups.com
      ubject: Re: [18xx] Re: 18?? Destination run question

      well, since 18qq follows mostly the same rules as 1870, then it's viable to
      orce any company that meets the minimum requirements to make a destination
      un as soon as it's possible to do so.
      ---- Original Message -----
      rom: "Mike Coyne" <mpcoyne@...<mailto:mpcoyne%40aol.com>>
      o: <18xx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:18xx%40yahoogroups.com>>
      ent: Monday, April 30, 2012 12:19 PM
      ubject: Re: [18xx] Re: 18?? Destination run question
      Any decision rule that short and simple will be bound to have the occasional
      xception. But getting to a destination, dropping the token, and being able
      o use it for double the value now, and in all future turns, is a powerful
      rgument for earlier. Especially since it is also possible to then use it
      or multiple trains many more times. The folks who like to delay, and make a
      iller destination run later with large trains, are in my opinion overly
      mpressed with the size of the individual run, and losing sight of the lost
      pportunities they have let go by. They also lose sight of the growth effect
      f their money invested earlier, in more shares which make them more money
      ver all those rounds they waited. So if you wait for 6Ts to destinate, hit
      whole lot of cities with two trains and make a killing, ask yourself: how
      any rounds would I have been able to use this city for double value if I
      ad destinated back when I had a 3T? How many trains lost that opportunity?
      ow many more shares of stock, or perhaps just slightly more expensive,
      igher paying stock, did I not have earlier because I waited this long?
      This is especially true when the destination offers the opportunity for
      ultiple runs, and when the destination is a high value city. So
      estinations in the middle of the board make better use of this than those
      hat are off in a corner. I will say that in the 18?? games I played this
      eekend, the fact that all of the destination runs are off on the corner or
      ide of the board made it less likely that companies used them with multiple
      rains at a time, and mitigated this concept somewhat. Or maybe we just
      aven't become as skilled at using them as we are in 1870.
      Mike Coyne
      pcoyne@...<mailto:mpcoyne%40aol.com>
      -----Original Message-----
      rom: Allen Sli <allensli@...<mailto:allensli%40yahoo.com>>
      o: 18xx <18xx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:18xx%40yahoogroups.com>>
      ent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 2:54 pm
      ubject: Re: [18xx] Re: 18?? Destination run question
      If you have no use for money now, more money later is better than some money
      w.
      llen
      would say that there has to be a very good reason to hold the destinate run
      til after the next stock round.
      here could be times that waiting an operating round or two is useful though
      ----Original Message-----
      om: Beard, Bruce D.
      <bruce_d_beard@...<mailto:bruce_d_beard%40mcpsmd.org>>
      : 18xx <18xx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:18xx%40yahoogroups.com>>; allensli
      allensli@...<mailto:allensli%40att.net>>; Alan Winterrowd
      lan@...<mailto:alan%40boomcoach.com>>
      : Russ Rusnak <rrrrrusnak@...<mailto:rrrrrusnak%40aol.com>>
      nt: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 2:03 pm
      bject: RE: [18xx] Re: 18?? Destination run question
      oney now is better than money later. Destinate ASAP.
      ruce
      ______________________________________
      m: 18xx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:18xx%40yahoogroups.com>
      [18xx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:18xx%40yahoogroups.com>]
      n Behalf Of Dutton, Richard
      dutton@...<mailto:dutton%40asahq.org>]
      t: Monday, April 30, 2012 1:00 PM
      18xx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:18xx%40yahoogroups.com>;
      allensli@...<mailto:allensli%40att.net>;
      lan Winterrowd
      18xx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:18xx%40yahoogroups.com>; Russ Rusnak
      ject: RE: [18xx] Re: 18?? Destination run question
      is one has always baffled me because it seems that the vast majority of the
      e the RR should want to make its destination run ASAP. This gives it the
      t runs to a doubled city.
      e Hannaford school of thought is that waiting for that special moment to
      ake
      extra run (perhaps with two trains on the RR) is worth the delay.
      d like to challenge some of the math whizzes on the list to analyze this,
      nd
      e up with an evidence-based answer. If we're ever going to beat Bruce at
      0, we need the data!
      ck
      ______________________________
      om: 18xx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:18xx%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of thomas
      all hannaford, jr.
      t: Mon 4/30/2012 11:39 AM
      allensli@...<mailto:allensli%40att.net>; Alan Winterrowd
      18xx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:18xx%40yahoogroups.com>; Russ Rusnak
      ject: [18xx] Re: 18?? Destination run question
      st to emphasize one of designer Sliwinski's points, allowing the Railroad's
      sident to CONTROL the TIMING of the Railroad's destination run is a VERY
      ortant design element (IMOHO). There are other '1870'-style 18XX games that
      e execution of a destination run AUTOMATIC as soon as such a run is
      ossible,
      other Players can "pimp" a Railroad by building a route that allows a
      lroad to destinate "prematurely" (before its President had set up an
      imized destination run [in terms of routes to & out of the best possible
      ed
      e, using the best possible Train inventory]).
      wever, it could be an '18??' optional rule to require that a Railroad
      xecute
      destination run as soon as a route is available (ala '1870'). -TWHJr
      ______________________________
      m: "allensli@...<mailto:allensli%40att.net> <mailto:allensli%40att.net>
      "
      allensli@...<mailto:allensli%40att.net>
      ilto:allensli%40att.net> >
      Alan Winterrowd <alan@...<mailto:alan%40boomcoach.com>
      mailto:alan%40boomcoach.com> >
      18xx@yahoogroups.com<mailto:18xx%40yahoogroups.com>
      <mailto:18xx%40yahoogroups.com>
      Russ Rusnak
      rrrusnak@...<mailto:rrrrusnak%40aol.com> <mailto:rrrrrusnak%40aol.com>
      >;
      om Hannaford
      all1958@...<mailto:wall1958%40yahoo.com>
      <mailto:twall1958%40yahoo.com> >
      t: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:47 AM
      ject: 18?? Destination run question
      Alan!
      18??, a company may only make its connection run immediately after one of
      ts
      s own operations. It is not required to make its connection run when it is
      e to. The president can decide to not make the connection run, no matter
      hat
      other stockholders think about it. The connection run can then be made
      fter
      ture operation of the company, if the opportunity still exists. If the
      sident decides to delay, the destination station marker is not placed - he
      't call "dibs" on the red off-board location. If there is a delay, another
      pany might block a city to cut off the connection, or connect there itself
      steal the location. A delay can be risky.
      e race to reach the better destination locations (or sometimes any
      estination
      cation!) is an important part of what makes 18?? different.
      why would the profitable connection run be nixed? The president might have
      lt the track so that his other company gets to connect later. Or, the
      nection run after a future operation might be improved enough to warrant
      he
      t. It can be an interesting calculation to make. Sometimes, on the final
      rating round of the game, a rear company will buy a front company's train
      en the front company is done and has no more use for it) to make a
      wo-train
      nection run. Companies that can no longer improve their own track can
      etimes be put to use building (or screwing up) this big double-train
      nection run for the other company. This can give players something
      eresting to do during the last dregs of the game.
      ope that you and your friends enjoy 18??, Alan, and I hope that you and
      ers reading this will let me know how your games go.
      len
      ordered a copy of this last week and have been reading the rules posted on
      . I think the game looks like a lot of fun. I have played 1870 games with
      presidency and free share determined randomly, and have not always been
      ressed with how it turns out, so I look forward to this 1870 "variant" if
      t
      be called such.
      eading through the rules, I had a question about the destination runs that

      ld see coming up in a game with our local crowd.
      he rules state that "When a company’s connection run is made, the red
      -board location that it connects to becomes the company’s destination, and
      company’s doubling destination station marker is placed there." It
      o states that "The company’s president decides whether his company will
      e a connection run or not. " Does this mean that I can be connected to a
      id Red location, but not make my connection run at the time, wanting
      itional trains, or a better Red area, then later make this same Red area my
      tination after all?
      -----
      an Winterrowd alan@...<mailto:alan%40boomcoach.com>
      mailto:alan%40boomcoach.com>
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