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Re: [18xx] 1844 forced train purchase

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  • Maisnestce@aol.com
    Sergio Giacuzzo wrote ... It s slightly worse than that. Suppose you have sfr.549 in the company treasury and no train, and the next train in the bank is a
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 1, 2008
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      Sergio Giacuzzo wrote

      > I think that, if you can choice which train to buy if forced to, this is
      > true in any situation, even if the company has enough money to buy an
      > H-train (or one from the bank pool) but not one "full" train. If the
      > president wants so, he can buy the more expensive train.

      It's slightly worse than that. Suppose you have sfr.549 in the company
      treasury and no train, and the next train in the bank is a 6/6H. You're about to
      add sfr.1 from hand to buy a 6H when a helpful opponent offers to sell you his
      3H train for sfr.150. As far as I can tell from reading the rules, you only
      have licence to choose which train to buy when you're forced to put money in
      from hand, which means that the only available train is the 3H. I am fairly
      sure that this isn't what's intended by the designers, but you only need one
      unreasonable person at the table and you're doomed.

      Steve Thomas maisnestce@a...


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • allen
      incorrect Steve, as the one rule states under purchasing a locomotive. ***** § If different locomotives are available (bank, bank pool or offers from
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 1, 2008
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        incorrect Steve,
        as the one rule states under purchasing a locomotive.
        *****
        § If different locomotives are available (bank, bank pool or offers
        from other companies), then the director selects which to buy.

        ****
        therefore, the director is not forced to purchase that
        train offered by another player.
        ----- Original Message -----

        From: <Maisnestce@...>
        To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 4:58 AM
        Subject: Re: [18xx] 1844 forced train purchase


        > Sergio Giacuzzo wrote
        >
        >> I think that, if you can choice which train to buy if forced to, this is
        >> true in any situation, even if the company has enough money to buy an
        >> H-train (or one from the bank pool) but not one "full" train. If the
        >> president wants so, he can buy the more expensive train.
        >
        > It's slightly worse than that. Suppose you have sfr.549 in the company
        > treasury and no train, and the next train in the bank is a 6/6H. You're
        > about to
        > add sfr.1 from hand to buy a 6H when a helpful opponent offers to sell you
        > his
        > 3H train for sfr.150. As far as I can tell from reading the rules, you
        > only
        > have licence to choose which train to buy when you're forced to put money
        > in
        > from hand, which means that the only available train is the 3H. I am
        > fairly
        > sure that this isn't what's intended by the designers, but you only need
        > one
        > unreasonable person at the table and you're doomed.
        >
        > Steve Thomas maisnestce@a...
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Maisnestce@aol.com
        ... Unfortunately, the rule you quote is dependent upon another clause: If a company has to buy a locomotive and does not have enough working capital
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 1, 2008
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          Allen Stancius wrote:

          > incorrect Steve,
          > as the one rule states under purchasing a locomotive.
          > *****
          > § If different locomotives are available (bank, bank pool or offers
          > from other companies), then the director selects which to buy.
          >
          > ****
          > therefore, the director is not forced to purchase that
          > train offered by another player.

          Unfortunately, the rule you quote is dependent upon another clause:

          If a company has to buy a locomotive and does not have enough working
          capital (emergency financing):

          (The dependency is quite explicit, with indented bullet points. That may be
          less clear when whatever software you use to read the text for you has
          finished mangling it.) In the example I gave, the company has enough working capital
          to buy the offered 3H train, so the emergency financing rules don't apply.
          Or possibly they do. I said at the start of this thread that the rules here
          are by no means unambiguous. That means whichever interpretation you choose, I
          can choose the other and be no less wrong. Oh, the joys of being a rules
          lawyer!

          Having said that, I suspect the designer agrees that your interpretation
          makes for a better game, and I know I do.

          Steve Thomas maisnestce@a...



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • allen
          agreed, indentation doesn t show up unless i trace the statement line entirely. secondly,if rules are split on a page to appear as two separate columns, then
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 1, 2008
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            agreed, indentation doesn't show up unless i
            trace the statement line entirely.
            secondly,if rules are split on a page to appear
            as two separate columns, then the reader really
            distorts the information by placing the printed
            right hand side below the information that's on the left.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <Maisnestce@...>
            To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 5:41 AM
            Subject: Re: [18xx] 1844 forced train purchase


            Allen Stancius wrote:

            > incorrect Steve,
            > as the one rule states under purchasing a locomotive.
            > *****
            > § If different locomotives are available (bank, bank pool or offers
            > from other companies), then the director selects which to buy.
            >
            > ****
            > therefore, the director is not forced to purchase that
            > train offered by another player.

            Unfortunately, the rule you quote is dependent upon another clause:

            If a company has to buy a locomotive and does not have enough working
            capital (emergency financing):

            (The dependency is quite explicit, with indented bullet points. That may be
            less clear when whatever software you use to read the text for you has
            finished mangling it.) In the example I gave, the company has enough
            working capital
            to buy the offered 3H train, so the emergency financing rules don't apply.
            Or possibly they do. I said at the start of this thread that the rules here
            are by no means unambiguous. That means whichever interpretation you
            choose, I
            can choose the other and be no less wrong. Oh, the joys of being a rules
            lawyer!

            Having said that, I suspect the designer agrees that your interpretation
            makes for a better game, and I know I do.

            Steve Thomas maisnestce@a...



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


            ------------------------------------

            This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.Yahoo! Groups Links
          • winsomegames
            That is the way we play it, given the rulebook.
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 2, 2008
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              That is the way we play it, given the rulebook.

              --- In 18xx@yahoogroups.com, "Sergio Giacuzzo" <sergio.giacuzzo@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hello to everyone, I'm Sergio Giacuzzo from Italy and I'm new to this
              > group.
              >
              > I've a question about 1844: when a major company is forced to purchase
              > a train and doesn't have the money to do it, does it have to buy "the
              > cheapest train" or not? In few word, does the company have to buy an H-
              > train or may it buy a normal one?
              >
              > From my understanding of the rules, it seems to me that the answer
              > is "it can buy also a more expensive train", if the President is
              > willing to pay the difference.
              >
              > I tried to search in the past meassages, but I wasn't able to find a
              > definitive answer to this question.
              >
              > Thank you in advance for your replies!
              >
              > Bye,
              > Sergio
              >
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