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RE: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2

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  • Erik Vos
    ... Actually, in our last game that did not happen. The brown phase passed quickly, and in the grey phase all normal cities were still green. In all later ORs
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 1, 2004
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      > > Hmm, 3 cities in one hex - that would have made a nice OOO
      > (or perhaps
      > > DDD)
      > > tile!
      > > Certainly worthy of the Ruhrgebiet, perhaps the biggest
      > industrial area of
      > > Europe.
      > > But no, the NW corner of this game is already too good.... ;-)
      > >
      >
      > Actually, if you think about it...by the time the game is
      > ending, that hex
      > can have a triple-city 60 gray tile, and so can
      > Cologne...it's exactly
      > thinking about the Ruhrgebiet that made me set that up! :-)

      Actually, in our last game that did not happen.
      The brown phase passed quickly, and in the grey phase all normal cities were
      still green.
      In all later ORs nobody had two consecutive companies with access to such
      cities,
      so laying a brown tile would give someone else the opportunity
      to lay the grey tile - and the extra token.
      The brown tiles were poisoned, as it were.

      Erik.
    • Erik Vos
      In preparation for our next 18EU game, I m wondering what strategies people have developed so far for the minors auction phase under the new rules (bidding up
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 1, 2004
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        In preparation for our next 18EU game, I'm wondering what strategies
        people have developed so far for the minors auction phase under the new
        rules
        (bidding up from 100, or reduce price if noone bids, possibly even to 0).

        What minor companies do you start offering for auction?
        The ones you want, or the ones you don't want?

        Erik.
      • David G.D. Hecht
        ... From: Erik Vos To: Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 2:28 PM Subject: RE: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2 ... It
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 1, 2004
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Erik Vos" <erik.vos@...>
          To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 2:28 PM
          Subject: RE: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2


          >
          > Actually, in our last game that did not happen.
          > The brown phase passed quickly, and in the grey phase all normal cities
          > were
          > still green.
          > In all later ORs nobody had two consecutive companies with access to such
          > cities,
          > so laying a brown tile would give someone else the opportunity
          > to lay the grey tile - and the extra token.
          > The brown tiles were poisoned, as it were.
          >

          It happens: just as it does with the Y-tiles.

          In the games I have played and seen, the brown tiles are often laid before
          and the grey tiles open things up.
        • David G.D. Hecht
          I usually try to offer companies that I know will get people interested, and that I don t want. ... From: Erik Vos To:
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 1, 2004
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            I usually try to offer companies that I know will get people interested, and
            that I don't want.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Erik Vos" <erik.vos@...>
            To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 2:37 PM
            Subject: [18xx] 18EU opening strategy


            > In preparation for our next 18EU game, I'm wondering what strategies
            > people have developed so far for the minors auction phase under the new
            > rules
            > (bidding up from 100, or reduce price if noone bids, possibly even to 0).
            >
            > What minor companies do you start offering for auction?
            > The ones you want, or the ones you don't want?
            >
            > Erik.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Lou Jerkich
            ... My preferred strategy is to first offer the companies I don t want, but which I am willing to take for a reasonable price. That way, it may be possible to
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 1, 2004
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              Erik Vos wrote:
              >
              > In preparation for our next 18EU game, I'm wondering what strategies
              > people have developed so far for the minors auction phase under the new
              > rules
              > (bidding up from 100, or reduce price if noone bids, possibly even to 0).
              >
              > What minor companies do you start offering for auction?
              > The ones you want, or the ones you don't want?

              My preferred strategy is to first offer the companies I don't want, but
              which I am willing to take for a reasonable price. That way, it may be
              possible to buy them cheap if no one else wants them. Or, I may just
              bid $100 and hope that others will spend much more. (Usually, if I'm
              willing to spend $100 on a company, others are likely to be willing to
              spend more.)

              Later, when all the players have less cash, and (because I planned
              carefully) presumably have less cash than me, I can offer for auction
              the companies that I really want, and be guaranteed to get them, perhaps
              even cheaply.

              In any event, if someone else offers a company you really want, you can
              always bid up the price. Should the price get more expensive than you
              are willing to pay, settle for your alternative plan and very likely you
              will ultimately spend less on getting the companies you want.

              --Lou Jerkich
            • Eoin Gibb
              This comment very much strikes a cord with our group. We seldom see the greys get played at all except occasionally in the very last round. Usually it is more
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 3, 2004
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                This comment very much strikes a cord with our group.
                We seldom see the greys get played at all except
                occasionally in the very last round. Usually it is
                more profitable o create a new route rather than just
                upgrading a brown city.


                --- "David G.D. Hecht" <Barzai@...> wrote:
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Erik Vos" <erik.vos@...>
                > To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 2:28 PM
                > Subject: RE: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2
                >
                >
                > >
                > > Actually, in our last game that did not happen.
                > > The brown phase passed quickly, and in the grey
                > phase all normal cities
                > > were
                > > still green.
                > > In all later ORs nobody had two consecutive
                > companies with access to such
                > > cities,
                > > so laying a brown tile would give someone else the
                > opportunity
                > > to lay the grey tile - and the extra token.
                > > The brown tiles were poisoned, as it were.
                > >
                >
                > It happens: just as it does with the Y-tiles.
                >
                > In the games I have played and seen, the brown tiles
                > are often laid before
                > and the grey tiles open things up.
                >
                >
                >

                Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
                http://au.movies.yahoo.com
              • David G.D. Hecht
                If you have the tempi (tempoes?) to do it, that s great. One of the aspects of 18EU that is not often commented on is that you are still laying tile in a
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 3, 2004
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                  If you have the tempi (tempoes?) to do it, that's great. One of the aspects
                  of 18EU that is not often commented on is that you are still laying tile in
                  a useful way (i.e., with significant impact on your revenue: not in the
                  1830/1870 style, where enormous effort is expended for an increase of one
                  dollar per share...) all the way through to the end. Often routes are not
                  completely optimized when the buzzer rings. This implies that one should
                  never waste a tempo: there's always something one should be doing to improve
                  one's long-term, big-train runs.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Eoin Gibb" <eoin_gibb@...>
                  To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 6:21 PM
                  Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2


                  >
                  > This comment very much strikes a cord with our group.
                  > We seldom see the greys get played at all except
                  > occasionally in the very last round. Usually it is
                  > more profitable o create a new route rather than just
                  > upgrading a brown city.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- "David G.D. Hecht" <Barzai@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                  >> From: "Erik Vos" <erik.vos@...>
                  >> To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                  >> Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 2:28 PM
                  >> Subject: RE: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> >
                  >> > Actually, in our last game that did not happen.
                  >> > The brown phase passed quickly, and in the grey
                  >> phase all normal cities
                  >> > were
                  >> > still green.
                  >> > In all later ORs nobody had two consecutive
                  >> companies with access to such
                  >> > cities,
                  >> > so laying a brown tile would give someone else the
                  >> opportunity
                  >> > to lay the grey tile - and the extra token.
                  >> > The brown tiles were poisoned, as it were.
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >> It happens: just as it does with the Y-tiles.
                  >>
                  >> In the games I have played and seen, the brown tiles
                  >> are often laid before
                  >> and the grey tiles open things up.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
                  > http://au.movies.yahoo.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Dave Mitton
                  ... more basic question; how do I print this on letter paper? It doesn t seem like Adobe Acrobat understands how to divide it up into 4 sheets. Or does it?
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 3, 2004
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                    On 9/29/2004 04:44 PM, David G.D. Hecht wrote:

                    >I've revised these some more to try to put the cities and towns
                    >where they belong (within the limits of the possible, obviously).
                    >
                    >Any thoughts on your part--including mispositioning issues--feel
                    >free to respond.

                    more basic question; how do I print this on letter paper?
                    It doesn't seem like Adobe Acrobat understands how to divide it up into 4
                    sheets.
                    Or does it?

                    Dave.
                  • David G.D. Hecht
                    ... From: Dave Mitton To: Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2 ...
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 3, 2004
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Dave Mitton" <dave@...>
                      To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 6:58 PM
                      Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2


                      > more basic question; how do I print this on letter paper?
                      > It doesn't seem like Adobe Acrobat understands how to divide it up into 4
                      > sheets.
                      > Or does it?
                      >

                      Blest if I know, Dave.

                      It was not my intent that people would print these out themselves, though of
                      course there's little I can do to prevent it.

                      I'm merely giving /vox pop/ some input on the revised map, which will be
                      sold in the usual way.
                    • Dave Mitton
                      ... Okay, color me confused. At first glance I could barely understand that last sentence. And the one before it ended in suspicion, But I think I understand
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 3, 2004
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                        On 10/3/2004 07:13 PM, David G.D. Hecht wrote:


                        >----- Original Message -----
                        >From: "Dave Mitton" <dave@...>
                        >To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                        >Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 6:58 PM
                        >Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2
                        >
                        >
                        > > more basic question; how do I print this on letter paper?
                        > > It doesn't seem like Adobe Acrobat understands how to divide it up into 4
                        > > sheets.
                        > > Or does it?
                        > >
                        >
                        >Blest if I know, Dave.
                        >
                        >It was not my intent that people would print these out themselves, though of
                        >course there's little I can do to prevent it.
                        >
                        >I'm merely giving /vox pop/ some input on the revised map, which will be
                        >sold in the usual way.

                        Okay, color me confused. At first glance I could barely understand that
                        last sentence. And the one before it ended in suspicion, But I think I
                        understand what's going on now.

                        As an owner of an 18EU set, for me it's about the enjoyment of playing
                        it. I was very disappointed in the original map and would really like to
                        use one of the nature you recently displayed.

                        It's not like the rest of the game is a kit online anywhere (is it?)


                        Dave.
                      • John A. Tamplin
                        ... I am sorry you are disappointed in the original map. I don t show an order from you, so I assume you got it from someone else. I personally don t have a
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 3, 2004
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                          On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Dave Mitton wrote:

                          > As an owner of an 18EU set, for me it's about the enjoyment of playing
                          > it. I was very disappointed in the original map and would really like to
                          > use one of the nature you recently displayed.

                          I am sorry you are disappointed in the original map. I don't show an
                          order from you, so I assume you got it from someone else.

                          I personally don't have a problem with you printing out the map and using
                          it (it isn't like I am making anything at the prices quoted -- paper, ink,
                          and pouchboard costs alone are over $6/ea, and I have about a 25% waste
                          rate after they go through the laminator. Add in a bit of labor to run
                          them through the laminator multiple times and the cut/trim the map boards
                          and there is hardly anything to cover wear and tear on the equipment
                          involved much less any profit.

                          As far as printing them, I take the 22x17 Postscript output from CDR
                          (which I believe is what David used to create the PDF) and write some
                          Postscript wrappers around it to position it and split it into two 11x17
                          pages. I presume you could do the same thing except into four 8.5x11
                          pages, but of course you would need to know Postscript. If you are using
                          a Unix system with ghostscript, you should be able to do it with pstops
                          which allows rotating, scaling and transforming PS code. There may be
                          Windows tools to do that as well, but I have no experience with any of
                          them.

                          You might also run into problems trying to fit it on four pages depending
                          on the margin of your printer -- there is very little extra margin when
                          printing it on 11x17 paper, so if you have typical inkjet margins you will
                          probably not be able to fit it vertically with an extra pair of margins
                          down the middle. You could probably take it to a print shop and get it
                          printed on 11x17 paper, but at that point you aren't saving anything over
                          buying the map from me and you wouldn't have it mounted and laminated.

                          --
                          John A. Tamplin jat@...
                          770/436-5387 HOME 4116 Manson Ave
                          Smyrna, GA 30082-3723
                        • David G.D. Hecht
                          ... From: Dave Mitton To: Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2 ...
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 3, 2004
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                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Dave Mitton" <dave@...>
                            To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 7:53 PM
                            Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2


                            >
                            > Okay, color me confused. At first glance I could barely understand that
                            > last sentence. And the one before it ended in suspicion, But I think I
                            > understand what's going on now.
                            >
                            > As an owner of an 18EU set, for me it's about the enjoyment of playing
                            > it. I was very disappointed in the original map and would really like to
                            > use one of the nature you recently displayed.
                            >
                            > It's not like the rest of the game is a kit online anywhere (is it?)
                            >

                            Hmmm...obviously you have not fully followed this thread, or any of the
                            related ones.

                            I'll summarize, throwing in a little history along the way.

                            18EU was in development for a longish time, during part of which it was
                            available for download as PDF files on the Yahoo site (as is still the case
                            with 18VA, for example).

                            After some discussions with various potential producers, I decided to allow
                            John Tamplin to produce and distribute my game. At the same time as this was
                            announced, I deaccessioned the old 18EU files, on the theory that John was
                            entitled to sell as many as possible.

                            The 18EU game (one can hardly call it a kit anymore, since all the parts are
                            available completely finished...for a price) has been available since last
                            spring, and has sold briskly: over a hundred units shipped, thus far.

                            One of the tradeoffs that was made in order to meet our delivery schedule
                            was to go with a cleaned up version of the prototype map, which is somewhat
                            abstract in nature. It was suggested that a more "realistic" map (with
                            coastlines and such) would be desirable, but it was also agreed that people
                            wanted the game to be printed, sold and shipped and they wanted it now.

                            At the time I did not feel I had the innate talent to do justice to the
                            "realistic" style of map, and I couldn't find anyone suitable to subcontract
                            the artwork to.

                            Since then, I have been working on several other prototypes, and my added
                            experience in doing those has led me to the thought that I could now go back
                            and revise the map to make it "prettier' and certainly more "realistic".
                            This, I have done, and the only major issue outstnading at this point is
                            whether to color each country differently, or to use the same background for
                            all of them. There is a poll in the "Polls" section that addresses this, and
                            (obviously) I had to put up images of the maps so people could get an idea
                            of what the options were.

                            It is my intent to allow John to sell replacement maps at a price which is
                            consistent with his cost structure. I should add that the entire production
                            run has been done basically at cost, with a small allowance for profit for
                            John, bearing in mind that the investment cost of the equipment had to be
                            amortized: this includes the printer, the laminator, the die cutter, and the
                            dies.

                            I should further note that--in the interest of keeping prices as low as
                            possible, and thus to encourage people in the hobby to buy--I have entirely
                            waived my own royalty on the game. I do not receive a single dime from John
                            for these games, or for any other aspect of production. What I do get, is
                            two "designer's copies" of each game (18EU and 1826, so far), and the
                            privilege of having made a significant contribution to the hobby.

                            If you do not believe it is worth $12 to buy a fully-mounted, laminated,
                            replacement map, then...don't do it. If--on the other hand--you would rather
                            print out the PDF file and laminate, trim and mount it yourself...I
                            certainly won't stop you.
                          • Mark J. Dulcey
                            ... As someone who suggested printing out the map (on a single sheet, as a play aid), I ll also add that I wasn t suggesting it as any sort of alternative to
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 3, 2004
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                              > I should further note that--in the interest of keeping prices as low as
                              > possible, and thus to encourage people in the hobby to buy--I have entirely
                              > waived my own royalty on the game. I do not receive a single dime from John
                              > for these games, or for any other aspect of production. What I do get, is
                              > two "designer's copies" of each game (18EU and 1826, so far), and the
                              > privilege of having made a significant contribution to the hobby.
                              >
                              > If you do not believe it is worth $12 to buy a fully-mounted, laminated,
                              > replacement map, then...don't do it. If--on the other hand--you would rather
                              > print out the PDF file and laminate, trim and mount it yourself...I
                              > certainly won't stop you.

                              As someone who suggested printing out the map (on a single sheet, as a
                              play aid), I'll also add that I wasn't suggesting it as any sort of
                              alternative to buying the game.

                              I was in a PBEM game of 1826 recently. I found it very convenient to
                              make copies of the small map that appears on the back of the 1826
                              rulebook, so I could mark them up with the track as built and have a
                              record of the board state that wouldn't use up table space. I'm certain
                              that this falls into the category of fair use of the materials for an
                              owner of the game.

                              With the PDF available, you can do even better by printing it out,
                              reduced onto a single page. The result certainly looks better than a
                              copy does.
                            • David G.D. Hecht
                              I have no quarrel with that. Adobe Acrobat Reader provides this capability in the current version, which is version 6 (Print.../Page Scaling/Fit To Paper). I
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 3, 2004
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                                I have no quarrel with that.

                                Adobe Acrobat Reader provides this capability in the current version, which
                                is version 6 (Print.../Page Scaling/Fit To Paper). I do not know if it was
                                previously provided in version 5.

                                Had that been the question, I would have been perfectly happy to provide the
                                information I just provided, and to say that I would have no objection to
                                same.

                                However, the person who asked the original question clearly indicated they
                                wanted to print out the map on four sheets, presumably at full size. This,
                                then, is the issue which has been addressed.

                                But your question is a good one, and now you have the answer as a matter of
                                record.

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Mark J. Dulcey" <mark@...>
                                To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 9:00 PM
                                Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2


                                >
                                >> I should further note that--in the interest of keeping prices as low as
                                >> possible, and thus to encourage people in the hobby to buy--I have
                                >> entirely
                                >> waived my own royalty on the game. I do not receive a single dime from
                                >> John
                                >> for these games, or for any other aspect of production. What I do get, is
                                >> two "designer's copies" of each game (18EU and 1826, so far), and the
                                >> privilege of having made a significant contribution to the hobby.
                                >>
                                >> If you do not believe it is worth $12 to buy a fully-mounted, laminated,
                                >> replacement map, then...don't do it. If--on the other hand--you would
                                >> rather
                                >> print out the PDF file and laminate, trim and mount it yourself...I
                                >> certainly won't stop you.
                                >
                                > As someone who suggested printing out the map (on a single sheet, as a
                                > play aid), I'll also add that I wasn't suggesting it as any sort of
                                > alternative to buying the game.
                                >
                                > I was in a PBEM game of 1826 recently. I found it very convenient to
                                > make copies of the small map that appears on the back of the 1826
                                > rulebook, so I could mark them up with the track as built and have a
                                > record of the board state that wouldn't use up table space. I'm certain
                                > that this falls into the category of fair use of the materials for an
                                > owner of the game.
                                >
                                > With the PDF available, you can do even better by printing it out,
                                > reduced onto a single page. The result certainly looks better than a
                                > copy does.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • krantzr2000
                                While Acrobat Reader will scale any size PDF to fit on one sheet of paper, you ll need Adobe Acrobat (the PDF creation tool) to tile a large print across
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 4, 2004
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                                  While Acrobat Reader will scale any size PDF to 'fit on one sheet of
                                  paper,' you'll need Adobe Acrobat (the PDF creation tool) to 'tile'
                                  a large print across multiple smaller sheets of paper. If you only
                                  have a one-time need, you can download the evaluation version of
                                  Adobe Acrobat directly from Adobe. You'll then have 30 days to
                                  create PDF's and 'tile' large prints. Afterwards, simply uninstall
                                  Adobe Acrobat and reinstall Acrobat Reader.

                                  --- In 18xx@yahoogroups.com, "David G.D. Hecht" <Barzai@e...> wrote:
                                  > I have no quarrel with that.
                                  >
                                  > Adobe Acrobat Reader provides this capability in the current
                                  version, which
                                  > is version 6 (Print.../Page Scaling/Fit To Paper). I do not know
                                  if it was
                                  > previously provided in version 5.
                                  >
                                  > Had that been the question, I would have been perfectly happy to
                                  provide the
                                  > information I just provided, and to say that I would have no
                                  objection to
                                  > same.
                                  >
                                  > However, the person who asked the original question clearly
                                  indicated they
                                  > wanted to print out the map on four sheets, presumably at full
                                  size. This,
                                  > then, is the issue which has been addressed.
                                  >
                                  > But your question is a good one, and now you have the answer as a
                                  matter of
                                  > record.
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Mark J. Dulcey" <mark@b...>
                                  > To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 9:00 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >> I should further note that--in the interest of keeping prices
                                  as low as
                                  > >> possible, and thus to encourage people in the hobby to buy--I
                                  have
                                  > >> entirely
                                  > >> waived my own royalty on the game. I do not receive a single
                                  dime from
                                  > >> John
                                  > >> for these games, or for any other aspect of production. What I
                                  do get, is
                                  > >> two "designer's copies" of each game (18EU and 1826, so far),
                                  and the
                                  > >> privilege of having made a significant contribution to the
                                  hobby.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> If you do not believe it is worth $12 to buy a fully-mounted,
                                  laminated,
                                  > >> replacement map, then...don't do it. If--on the other hand--you
                                  would
                                  > >> rather
                                  > >> print out the PDF file and laminate, trim and mount it
                                  yourself...I
                                  > >> certainly won't stop you.
                                  > >
                                  > > As someone who suggested printing out the map (on a single
                                  sheet, as a
                                  > > play aid), I'll also add that I wasn't suggesting it as any sort
                                  of
                                  > > alternative to buying the game.
                                  > >
                                  > > I was in a PBEM game of 1826 recently. I found it very
                                  convenient to
                                  > > make copies of the small map that appears on the back of the 1826
                                  > > rulebook, so I could mark them up with the track as built and
                                  have a
                                  > > record of the board state that wouldn't use up table space. I'm
                                  certain
                                  > > that this falls into the category of fair use of the materials
                                  for an
                                  > > owner of the game.
                                  > >
                                  > > With the PDF available, you can do even better by printing it
                                  out,
                                  > > reduced onto a single page. The result certainly looks better
                                  than a
                                  > > copy does.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                • Dave Mitton
                                  ... You would be correct, and thank you for the information. ... I hadn t seen that information offered yet either. My vision isn t perfect... nor is my
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 4, 2004
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                                    On 10/3/2004 08:28 PM, David G.D. Hecht wrote:


                                    >----- Original Message -----
                                    >From: "Dave Mitton" <dave@...>
                                    >To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 7:53 PM
                                    >Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > Okay, color me confused. At first glance I could barely understand that
                                    > > last sentence. And the one before it ended in suspicion, But I think I
                                    > > understand what's going on now.
                                    > >
                                    > > As an owner of an 18EU set, for me it's about the enjoyment of playing
                                    > > it. I was very disappointed in the original map and would really like to
                                    > > use one of the nature you recently displayed.
                                    > >
                                    > > It's not like the rest of the game is a kit online anywhere (is it?)
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >Hmmm...obviously you have not fully followed this thread, or any of the
                                    >related ones.
                                    >
                                    >I'll summarize, throwing in a little history along the way.
                                    >
                                    >...

                                    You would be correct, and thank you for the information.

                                    >If you do not believe it is worth $12 to buy a fully-mounted, laminated,
                                    >replacement map, then...don't do it. If--on the other hand--you would rather
                                    >print out the PDF file and laminate, trim and mount it yourself...I
                                    >certainly won't stop you.

                                    I hadn't seen that information offered yet either.
                                    My vision isn't perfect... nor is my memory.

                                    But I can operate a printer.
                                    (maybe even my employer's ... now that I have one)

                                    Dave.
                                  • Volker Schnell
                                    Hi David I ll made a copy from your files from 18xx version 0.993. Are there any differences to the now available version? Volker ... Email:
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 6, 2004
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                                      Hi David

                                      I'll made a copy from your files from 18xx version 0.993.
                                      Are there any differences to the now available version?

                                      Volker

                                      On 3 Oct 2004 at 23:10, David G.D. Hecht wrote:

                                      >
                                      > I have no quarrel with that.
                                      >
                                      > Adobe Acrobat Reader provides this capability in the current version, which
                                      > is version 6 (Print.../Page Scaling/Fit To Paper). I do not know if it was
                                      > previously provided in version 5.
                                      >
                                      > Had that been the question, I would have been perfectly happy to provide the
                                      > information I just provided, and to say that I would have no objection to
                                      > same.
                                      >
                                      > However, the person who asked the original question clearly indicated they
                                      > wanted to print out the map on four sheets, presumably at full size. This,
                                      > then, is the issue which has been addressed.
                                      >
                                      > But your question is a good one, and now you have the answer as a matter of
                                      > record.
                                      >

                                      Email: Volker_Schnell@...
                                      mailto: volker_schnell@...
                                      mailto: volker.schnell@...
                                      Homepage: home.arcor.de\volker_schnell
                                    • David G.D. Hecht
                                      Well, there are no differences between this version and the published version other than esthetics. The last substantive change in the developmental product
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 6, 2004
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                                        Well, there are no differences between this version and the published
                                        version other than esthetics.

                                        The last substantive change in the developmental product was to eliminate
                                        the mountain in Genoa. There were also some slight tweaks in the mountains
                                        near Vienna, though I suspect without much practical significance.

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Volker Schnell" <volker_schnell@...>
                                        To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 5:47 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Revised Map, MK. 2


                                        >
                                        > Hi David
                                        >
                                        > I'll made a copy from your files from 18xx version 0.993.
                                        > Are there any differences to the now available version?
                                        >
                                        > Volker
                                        >
                                        > On 3 Oct 2004 at 23:10, David G.D. Hecht wrote:
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >> I have no quarrel with that.
                                        >>
                                        >> Adobe Acrobat Reader provides this capability in the current version,
                                        >> which
                                        >> is version 6 (Print.../Page Scaling/Fit To Paper). I do not know if it
                                        >> was
                                        >> previously provided in version 5.
                                        >>
                                        >> Had that been the question, I would have been perfectly happy to provide
                                        >> the
                                        >> information I just provided, and to say that I would have no objection to
                                        >> same.
                                        >>
                                        >> However, the person who asked the original question clearly indicated
                                        >> they
                                        >> wanted to print out the map on four sheets, presumably at full size.
                                        >> This,
                                        >> then, is the issue which has been addressed.
                                        >>
                                        >> But your question is a good one, and now you have the answer as a matter
                                        >> of
                                        >> record.
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        > Email: Volker_Schnell@...
                                        > mailto: volker_schnell@...
                                        > mailto: volker.schnell@...
                                        > Homepage: home.arcor.de\volker_schnell
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Volker Schnell
                                        Hi David, In my rules-version 0.993 is not clear for me, if it is possible, trading trains even at Phase 1, when onyl 2 Trains exists. if Yes, it may be
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 7, 2004
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                                          Hi David,

                                          In my rules-version 0.993 is not clear for me, if it is possible, trading trains even at
                                          Phase 1, when onyl 2 Trains exists.

                                          if Yes, it may be possible for a minor company, to trade trains in the second OR.

                                          Or do you use the normal train-trading possible after the first 3-train.

                                          Volker

                                          Email: Volker_Schnell@...
                                          mailto: volker_schnell@...
                                          mailto: volker.schnell@...
                                          Homepage: home.arcor.de\volker_schnell
                                        • David G.D. Hecht
                                          Yes, buying trains across is legal right from the start. ... From: Volker Schnell Sent: Oct 7, 2004 4:02 PM To: 18xx@yahoogroups.com
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 7, 2004
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                                            Yes, buying trains across is legal right from the start.

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Volker Schnell <volker_schnell@...>
                                            Sent: Oct 7, 2004 4:02 PM
                                            To: 18xx@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [18xx] 18EU Trading Trains


                                            Hi David,

                                            In my rules-version 0.993 is not clear for me, if it is possible, trading trains even at
                                            Phase 1, when onyl 2 Trains exists.

                                            if Yes, it may be possible for a minor company, to trade trains in the second OR.

                                            Or do you use the normal train-trading possible after the first 3-train.

                                            Volker

                                            Email: Volker_Schnell@...
                                            mailto: volker_schnell@...
                                            mailto: volker.schnell@...
                                            Homepage: home.arcor.de\volker_schnell



                                            This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          • Craig Bartell
                                            What is trading trains? Our group has played a couple times and never traded trains? What section of the rulebook did I miss? Craig ... From: David G.D.
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Oct 8, 2004
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                                              What is trading trains? Our group has played a couple times and never
                                              'traded' trains? What section of the rulebook did I miss?

                                              Craig

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "David G.D. Hecht" <Barzai@...>
                                              To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:39 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Trading Trains


                                              >
                                              > Yes, buying trains across is legal right from the start.
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: Volker Schnell <volker_schnell@...>
                                              > Sent: Oct 7, 2004 4:02 PM
                                              > To: 18xx@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [18xx] 18EU Trading Trains
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Hi David,
                                              >
                                              > In my rules-version 0.993 is not clear for me, if it is possible, trading
                                              trains even at
                                              > Phase 1, when onyl 2 Trains exists.
                                              >
                                              > if Yes, it may be possible for a minor company, to trade trains in the
                                              second OR.
                                              >
                                              > Or do you use the normal train-trading possible after the first 3-train.
                                              >
                                              > Volker
                                              >
                                              > Email: Volker_Schnell@...
                                              > mailto: volker_schnell@...
                                              > mailto: volker.schnell@...
                                              > Homepage: home.arcor.de\volker_schnell
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • David G.D. Hecht
                                              I suspect you are puzzled by a peculiarity of language...I have interpreted the question to mean trading ^in^ trains , or IOW buying trains between companies
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Oct 8, 2004
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                                                I suspect you are puzzled by a peculiarity of language...I have interpreted the question to mean "trading ^in^ trains", or IOW buying trains between companies ("buying across" as the Brits say).

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: Craig Bartell <home@...>
                                                Sent: Oct 8, 2004 2:03 PM
                                                To: 18xx@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Trading Trains


                                                What is trading trains? Our group has played a couple times and never
                                                'traded' trains? What section of the rulebook did I miss?

                                                Craig

                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "David G.D. Hecht" <Barzai@...>
                                                To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:39 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Trading Trains


                                                >
                                                > Yes, buying trains across is legal right from the start.
                                                >
                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                > From: Volker Schnell <volker_schnell@...>
                                                > Sent: Oct 7, 2004 4:02 PM
                                                > To: 18xx@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: [18xx] 18EU Trading Trains
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Hi David,
                                                >
                                                > In my rules-version 0.993 is not clear for me, if it is possible, trading
                                                trains even at
                                                > Phase 1, when onyl 2 Trains exists.
                                                >
                                                > if Yes, it may be possible for a minor company, to trade trains in the
                                                second OR.
                                                >
                                                > Or do you use the normal train-trading possible after the first 3-train.
                                                >
                                                > Volker
                                                >
                                                > Email: Volker_Schnell@...
                                                > mailto: volker_schnell@...
                                                > mailto: volker.schnell@...
                                                > Homepage: home.arcor.de\volker_schnell
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >




                                                This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              • Volker Schnell
                                                Hi Craig Trading Trains means a company (minor or regular) buys a train from another company (minor or regular) for a price, which both directors accepted. In
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Oct 10, 2004
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                                                  Hi Craig

                                                  Trading Trains means a company (minor or regular) buys a train from another
                                                  company (minor or regular) for a price, which both directors accepted. In the rules
                                                  section "Train purchase".

                                                  Volker

                                                  On 8 Oct 2004 at 13:03, Craig Bartell wrote:

                                                  >
                                                  > What is trading trains? Our group has played a couple times and never
                                                  > 'traded' trains? What section of the rulebook did I miss?
                                                  >
                                                  > Craig
                                                  >
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > From: "David G.D. Hecht" <Barzai@...>
                                                  > To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 9:39 PM
                                                  > Subject: Re: [18xx] 18EU Trading Trains
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Yes, buying trains across is legal right from the start.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > > From: Volker Schnell <volker_schnell@...>
                                                  > > Sent: Oct 7, 2004 4:02 PM
                                                  > > To: 18xx@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > Subject: [18xx] 18EU Trading Trains
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Hi David,
                                                  > >
                                                  > > In my rules-version 0.993 is not clear for me, if it is possible, trading
                                                  > trains even at
                                                  > > Phase 1, when onyl 2 Trains exists.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > if Yes, it may be possible for a minor company, to trade trains in the
                                                  > second OR.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Or do you use the normal train-trading possible after the first 3-train.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Volker
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Email: Volker_Schnell@...
                                                  > > mailto: volker_schnell@...
                                                  > > mailto: volker.schnell@...
                                                  > > Homepage: home.arcor.de\volker_schnell
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >


                                                  Email: Volker_Schnell@...
                                                  mailto: volker_schnell@...
                                                  mailto: volker.schnell@...
                                                  Homepage: home.arcor.de\volker_schnell
                                                • Maisnestce@aol.com
                                                  In a message dated 07/10/04 21:04:22 GMT Daylight Time, volker_schnell@a... ... It s even possible to trade trains in the first OR. Company #1 could buy a
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Oct 10, 2004
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                                                    In a message dated 07/10/04 21:04:22 GMT Daylight Time, volker_schnell@a...
                                                    writes:

                                                    > if Yes, it may be possible for a minor company, to trade trains in the
                                                    > second OR.
                                                    >
                                                    It's even possible to trade trains in the first OR. Company #1 could buy a
                                                    train from a company in the very first operating turn of the game.

                                                    It probably wouldn't want to, though! It's occasionally the case that a
                                                    minor can run a second train for more than another company can run its first one
                                                    (#4's runs are often particularly dire) and under those circumstances an early
                                                    purchase across is profitable.

                                                    Steve Thomas maisnestce@a...


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