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1841 IRSFF Play (was rules question)

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  • marktderrick
    The last two times I have played 1841, I got the IRSFF concession and set the initial price at 216 and was careful to only hold 20%-30%. The high stock price
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 1, 2004
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      The last two times I have played 1841, I got the IRSFF concession and
      set the initial price at 216 and was careful to only hold 20%-30%.
      The high stock price discourages poachers grabbing the stock. In
      those games, no one bought more than 10% so in each game the SFV
      entered play "freezed". I'd say with higher initial stock prices this
      would be common.
      >
      > But then, the situation will rarely come up (even with
      SFV "freezed"),
      > since we play that the last pair of IRSFF shares in a player's hand
      > must be traded for a presidency if there is one not yet claimed.
    • Jeremy
      I wanted to verify the rules about corporate stock sales in 1841. If a company is in the emergency money raising step, shares of the controlling corporation
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 6, 2010
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        I wanted to verify the rules about corporate stock sales in 1841.

        If a company is in the emergency money raising step, shares of the controlling corporation cannot be sold. What exactly is "the controlling corporation"?

        Example: If the SFLi goes into the emergency money raising step in order to buy a train, does it have to sell its 20% president's share of the RATF that it owns?

        Thanks.
      • allen stancius
        the controlling corporation is any company that owns the majority of shares of another company. however, other shares are not limited to the 50% rule during
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 6, 2010
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          the "controlling corporation" is any company that owns
          the majority of shares of another company.
          however, other shares are not limited to the 50% rule during the emergency
          cash raising phase when
          being sold to the market.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Jeremy" <jermey.vipperman@...>
          To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:17 PM
          Subject: [18xx] 1841 rules question


          >I wanted to verify the rules about corporate stock sales in 1841.
          >
          > If a company is in the emergency money raising step, shares of the
          > controlling corporation cannot be sold. What exactly is "the controlling
          > corporation"?
          >
          > Example: If the SFLi goes into the emergency money raising step in order
          > to buy a train, does it have to sell its 20% president's share of the RATF
          > that it owns?
          >
          > Thanks.
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > This is a message from the 18xx mailing list.Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • allen stancius
          sorry, didn t read the entire post. ... the controlling corporation is any company that owns the majority of shares of another company. however, other shares
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 6, 2010
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            sorry, didn't read the entire post.
            --- --- ---
            the "controlling corporation" is any company that owns
            the majority of shares of another company.
            however, other shares are not limited to the 50% rule during the emergency
            cash raising phase when
            being sold to the market.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Jeremy" <
            jermey.vipperman@...>
            To: <
            18xx@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:17 PM
            Subject: [18xx] 1841 rules question

            >I wanted to verify the rules about corporate stock sales in 1841.
            >
            > If a company is in the emergency money raising step, shares of the
            > controlling corporation cannot be sold. What exactly is "the controlling
            > corporation"?
            >
            > Example: If the SFLi goes into the emergency money raising step in order
            > to buy a train, does it have to sell its 20% president's share of the RATF
            > that it owns?
            >
            > Thanks.

            yes, and it becomes a "frozen" corporation
            until somebody buys the directorship
            during the next stock round.
          • allen stancius
            to clarify the differences between controlled, and controlling. lets say SFLI owns 30% of RATF & vice versa, and SFLI owns the majority in RATF which makes
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 6, 2010
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              to clarify the differences
              between controlled, and controlling.
              lets say SFLI owns 30% of RATF & vice versa,
              and SFLI owns the majority in RATF
              which makes SFLI the "controlling" company.
              if RATF needed to raise emergency cash, it cannot
              sell shares in SFLI, as it's the "controlling company.
              however, if SFLI needed to raise emergency cash,
              it must sell all shares in it's treasury before the player
              could contribute their cash towards the purchase.
              thus, in either case, company shares are first sold, followed by
              unrestricted shares, and then
              player contribution.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "allen stancius" <astancius@...>
              To: <18xx@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:29 PM
              Subject: Re: [18xx] 1841 rules question


              > sorry, didn't read the entire post.
              > --- --- ---
              > the "controlling corporation" is any company that owns
              > the majority of shares of another company.
              > however, other shares are not limited to the 50% rule during the emergency
              > cash raising phase when
              > being sold to the market.
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Jeremy" <
              > jermey.vipperman@...>
              > To: <
              > 18xx@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 1:17 PM
              > Subject: [18xx] 1841 rules question
              >
              >>I wanted to verify the rules about corporate stock sales in 1841.
              >>
              >> If a company is in the emergency money raising step, shares of the
              >> controlling corporation cannot be sold. What exactly is "the controlling
              >> corporation"?
              >>
              >> Example: If the SFLi goes into the emergency money raising step in order
              >> to buy a train, does it have to sell its 20% president's share of the
              >> RATF
              >> that it owns?
              >>
              >> Thanks.
              >
              > yes, and it becomes a "frozen" corporation
              > until somebody buys the directorship
              > during the next stock round.
            • Steve Thomas
              ... Suppose you own the presidency of company A. A owns the presidency of company B. B owns the presidency of company C. Then A and B are controlling
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 7, 2010
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                > I wanted to verify the rules about corporate stock sales in 1841.

                > If a company is in the emergency money raising step, shares of
                > the controlling corporation cannot be sold. What exactly is "the
                > controlling corporation"?

                Suppose you own the presidency of company A. A owns the presidency of
                company B. B owns the presidency of company C. Then A and B are
                controlling corporations of C. A is also the controlling corporation of B.
                However, the constraint in emergency money raising is not that shares in the
                controlling corporations can't be sold. Instead, emergency sales are not
                allowed to shift the presidency of controlling corporations. Suppose the
                situation is as above and C is in emergency money raising, C sells
                everything it has. If that's not enough, B has to chip in, and it's not
                allowed to dump C, either on anyone else or even the pool, but it is allowed
                to sell shares in C short of that point. Similarly, when A has to chip in
                it can't dump B.

                I think you're confusing this with the rule in the normal stock sale step
                (4.7.1). There, it says that shares in any of the active company's
                controlling corporations must be sold. In the above example, C must sell
                any shares it owns in A and/or B. It's a rule that rarely comes into play
                because it's not entirely straightforward to get into that situation, since
                C can't buy shares in A or B while the chain of control is as it is.

                > Example: If the SFLi goes into the emergency money raising
                > step in order to buy a train, does it have to sell its 20%
                > president's share of the RATF that it owns?

                Yes, it does. In fact, that RATF presidency is one of the first things to
                go--after exhausting cash on hand, the company must sell its treasury
                certificates (i.e. shares of other companies that it owns). If that's not
                enough, it must sell its initial offering certificates (i.e. shares in
                itself that have never been sold). This order is mandatory, even if you'd
                like it to be the other way around.

                --
                Steve Thomas maisnestce@b...
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