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Re: [18cMusic] point of war

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  • Deirdre Florance
    Hello ; Sorry I can t help you , but Jim Krause is the one you should ask. Jim Florance
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 1, 2007
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      Hello ;


      Sorry I can't help you , but Jim Krause is the one you should ask.



      Jim
      Florance













      >Hi would someone please explain to me beating a point of war in 1812.
      >what was the beat? was it potters?
      >cheers
      >
      >
    • Jim Krause
      ... The Point Of War is the first part of The Three Camps. This beat is traditional, and can be found in Longman & Broderip s The Young Drummer s Assistant
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 1, 2007
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        --- In 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com, "drummerspnwars" <drummerspnwars@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi would someone please explain to me beating a point of war in 1812.
        > what was the beat? was it potters?
        > cheers
        >

        The Point Of War is the first part of The Three Camps. This beat is
        traditional, and can be found in Longman & Broderip's "The Young
        Drummer's Assistant" (London, 1780s) as well as Charles Stewart
        Ashworth's "A New, Useful, and Complete System of Drum Beating."
        (Boston,1812). A variation of the beating for the same piece is in
        Potter's manual and forms part of the beating for Reveille. I suppose
        from your question that you are portraying Crown Forces, correct?

        If you play the first 16 bars of The Three Camps, you'll have played
        The Point of War.

        I hope this helps.

        Jim Krause
        Fife Instructor, Music Director
        Kaw Valley Fife & Drum Corps
      • toddstaxi@att.net
        Jim, Thank you for your insight and guidance. When would this be played? That is, when would the Pont of War be played? Thank you. Ihre Kreigskamerad, Herr
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 1, 2007
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          Jim,

            Thank you for your insight and guidance.  When would this be played?  That is, when would the "Pont of War" be played?

          Thank you.

          Ihre Kreigskamerad,

          Herr Hofmann, now with the Old BUFFS--American Contingent--(War of 1812)

          -------------- Original message from "Jim Krause" <jkrause365@...>: --------------

          --- In 18cMusic@yahoogroup s.com, "drummerspnwars" <drummerspnwars@ ...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi would someone please explain to me beating a point of war in 1812.
          > what was the beat? was it potters?
          > cheers
          >

          The Point Of War is the first part of The Three Camps. This beat is
          traditional, and can be found in Longman & Broderip's "The Young
          Drummer's Assistant" (London, 1780s) as well as Charles Stewart
          Ashworth's "A New, Useful, and Complete System of Drum Beating."
          (Boston,1812) . A variation of the beating for the same piece is in
          Potter's manual and forms part of the beating for Reveille. I suppose
          from your question that you are portraying Crown Forces, correct?

          If you play the first 16 bars of The Three Camps, you'll have played
          The Point of War.

          I hope this helps.

          Jim Krause
          Fife Instructor, Music Director
          Kaw Valley Fife &a mp; Drum Corps

        • drummerspnwars
          ... 1812. ... suppose ... thank you jim much appreciated
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 3, 2007
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            --- In 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Krause" <jkrause365@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com, "drummerspnwars" <drummerspnwars@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi would someone please explain to me beating a point of war in
            1812.
            > > what was the beat? was it potters?
            > > cheers
            > >
            >
            > The Point Of War is the first part of The Three Camps. This beat is
            > traditional, and can be found in Longman & Broderip's "The Young
            > Drummer's Assistant" (London, 1780s) as well as Charles Stewart
            > Ashworth's "A New, Useful, and Complete System of Drum Beating."
            > (Boston,1812). A variation of the beating for the same piece is in
            > Potter's manual and forms part of the beating for Reveille. I
            suppose
            > from your question that you are portraying Crown Forces, correct?
            >
            > If you play the first 16 bars of The Three Camps, you'll have played
            > The Point of War.
            >
            > I hope this helps.
            >
            > Jim Krause
            > Fife Instructor, Music Director
            > Kaw Valley Fife & Drum Corps
            >
            thank you jim much appreciated
          • Jim Krause
            ... be played? Quoting from Ashworth: The Point of War, or first part of the Three Camps is a compliment which a guard pays a Governor of a State and to no
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 6, 2007
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              --- In 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com, toddstaxi@... wrote:
              > When would this be played? That is, when would the "Pont of War"
              be >played?

              Quoting from Ashworth:
              "The Point of War, or first part of the Three Camps is a compliment
              which a guard pays a Governor of a State and to no other person. [It]
              is also beat when the Regiment's Colors are returned uncased to the
              Commandant's Quarters. If the Colors be cased, the Drum pays no
              compliment, also when Colors are received from the Commander's
              Quarters. It is understood that the President of the U.S. is also
              entitled to the Compliment in any state." [p. 20]

              "The Church Call ends with the first part of the three camps, or Point
              of War." [p. 22]

              This is reflective of American practice about the time of the War of
              1812. What British practice was during the last third of the 18th
              century, I cannot say.

              Jim Krause
            • andrew ambrus
              Point of War would have also been beat when the order Charge Bayonets was given. Andrew Ambrus ... be played? Quoting from Ashworth: The Point of War, or
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 8, 2007
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                Point of War would have also been beat when the order "Charge Bayonets" was given. 
                 
                Andrew Ambrus


                Jim Krause <jkrause365@...> wrote:
                --- In 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com, toddstaxi@... wrote:
                > When would this be played? That is, when would the "Pont of War"
                be >played?

                Quoting from Ashworth:
                "The Point of War, or first part of the Three Camps is a compliment
                which a guard pays a Governor of a State and to no other person. [It]
                is also beat when the Regiment's Colors are returned uncased to the
                Commandant's Quarters. If the Colors be cased, the Drum pays no
                compliment, also when Colors are received from the Commander's
                Quarters. It is understood that the President of the U.S. is also
                entitled to the Compliment in any state." [p. 20]

                "The Church Call ends with the first part of the three camps, or Point
                of War." [p. 22]

                This is reflective of American practice about the time of the War of
                1812. What British practice was during the last third of the 18th
                century, I cannot say.

                Jim Krause




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              • Sherri Rapp
                I ve noticed that some drummers play this beating (Three Camps, Point of War, Reveille, whatever) with a straight old eighth feel (1-and-2- and, etc), which is
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 9, 2007
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                  I've noticed that some drummers play this beating (Three Camps, Point
                  of War, Reveille, whatever) with a straight old eighth feel (1-and-2-
                  and, etc), which is a literal interpretation of how the notes are
                  written (5-stroke, 7-stroke). Except for three instances where the
                  above was played, in this hobby and all through high school and
                  college I have always played it and heard it played with a triplet
                  feel (1-lay-lee-2-lay-lee) where the final stroke of the rolls are
                  accented single strokes and the other notes are doubled.

                  Does regional tradition account for this difference, such as British
                  vs German vs French? Is it personal or unit preference? What's going
                  on here?

                  Very curious....
                  Sherri Rapp
                  7th Royal Fusiliers
                  Guilford Courthouse NMP F&D Corps


                  --- In 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com, andrew ambrus <adambrus@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Point of War would have also been beat when the order "Charge
                  Bayonets" was given.
                  >
                  > Andrew Ambrus
                  >
                  >
                  > Jim Krause <jkrause365@...> wrote:
                  > --- In 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com, toddstaxi@ wrote:
                  > > When would this be played? That is, when would the "Pont of War"
                  > be >played?
                  >
                  > Quoting from Ashworth:
                  > "The Point of War, or first part of the Three Camps is a compliment
                  > which a guard pays a Governor of a State and to no other person.
                  [It]
                  > is also beat when the Regiment's Colors are returned uncased to the
                  > Commandant's Quarters. If the Colors be cased, the Drum pays no
                  > compliment, also when Colors are received from the Commander's
                  > Quarters. It is understood that the President of the U.S. is also
                  > entitled to the Compliment in any state." [p. 20]
                  >
                  > "The Church Call ends with the first part of the three camps, or
                  Point
                  > of War." [p. 22]
                  >
                  > This is reflective of American practice about the time of the War of
                  > 1812. What British practice was during the last third of the 18th
                  > century, I cannot say.
                  >
                  > Jim Krause
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • richard ruquist
                  Sherri, ... r r l l l r r r l l r r l Richard Sherri Rapp wrote: I ve noticed that some drummers
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 9, 2007
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                    Sherri,
                     
                    I cannot imagine playing 3 camps, with fives and elevens in part A, and tens and fives in parts B & C, in any time but straight time, where the bass drum plays e.g., for part A:
                     
                                                       :1  2  3 rest 5  6  7 rest 1  2  3  4  5  6  7 rest:
                                                        r   r   l        l   l   r        r   r   l   l   r   r   l
                     
                    Richard

                    Sherri Rapp <sherrirapp@...> wrote:

                    I've noticed that some drummers play this beating (Three Camps, Point
                    of War, Reveille, whatever) with a straight old eighth feel (1-and-2-
                    and, etc), which is a literal interpretation of how the notes are
                    written (5-stroke, 7-stroke). Except for three instances where the
                    above was played, in this hobby and all through high school and
                    college I have always played it and heard it played with a triplet
                    feel (1-lay-lee-2- lay-lee) where the final stroke of the rolls are
                    accented single strokes and the other notes are doubled.

                    Does regional tradition account for this difference, such as British
                    vs German vs French? Is it personal or unit preference? What's going
                    on here?

                    Very curious....
                    Sherri Rapp
                    7th Royal Fusiliers
                    Guilford Courthouse NMP F&D Corps

                    --- In 18cMusic@yahoogroup s.com, andrew ambrus <adambrus@.. .> wrote:
                    >
                    > Point of War would have also been beat when the order "Charge
                    Bayonets" was given.
                    >
                    > Andrew Ambrus
                    >
                    >
                    > Jim Krause <jkrause365@ ...> wrote:
                    > --- In 18cMusic@yahoogroup s.com, toddstaxi@ wrote:
                    > > When would this be played? That is, when would the "Pont of War"
                    > be >played?
                    >
                    > Quoting from Ashworth:
                    > "The Point of War, or first part of the Three Camps is a compliment
                    > which a guard pays a Governor of a State and to no other person.
                    [It]
                    > is also beat when the Regiment's Colors are returned uncased to the
                    > Commandant's Quarters. If the Colors be cased, the Drum pays no
                    > compliment, also when Colors are received from the Commander's
                    > Quarters. It is understood that the President of the U.S. is also
                    > entitled to the Compliment in any state." [p. 20]
                    >
                    > "The Church Call ends with the first part of the three camps, or
                    Point
                    > of War." [p. 22]
                    >
                    > This is reflective of American practice about the time of the War of
                    > 1812. What British practice was during the last third of the 18th
                    > century, I cannot say.
                    >
                    > Jim Krause
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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