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More on drum slings

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  • George F Franks III
    Great exchange on drum slings. Thank you all. So based on this, does anyone have patterns for correct British and American drum slings? Who if anybody makes
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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      Great exchange on drum slings. Thank you all.

      So based on this, does anyone have patterns for correct British and
      American drum slings? Who if anybody makes them today?

      I so enjoyed the comment about all the drum majors running around (due
      to the stick holders on the slings).

      Having worn slings both over the shoulder and around the neck, I for
      one have always found it easier to play and definitely march wearing a
      sling over the shoulder. Others???

      Cheers!

      George Franks
    • richard ruquist
      Moodus uses the around the neck sling because when they were founded, in the early 1800s I believe, they were in vogue, a vogue that carried thru the Civil
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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        Moodus uses the around the neck sling because when they were founded, in the early 1800s I believe, they were in vogue, a vogue that carried thru the Civil War. But having grown up in the 20th century slung over the shoulder, I cannot cope around the neck.
         
        Clem

        George F Franks III <gffranks3@...> wrote:
        Great exchange on drum slings.  Thank you all.

        So based on this, does anyone have patterns for correct British and
        American drum slings?  Who if anybody makes them today?

        I so enjoyed the comment about all the drum majors running around (due
        to the stick holders on the slings).

        Having worn slings both over the shoulder and around the neck, I for
        one have always found it easier to play and definitely march wearing a
        sling over the shoulder.  Others???

        Cheers!

        George Franks







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      • JOEWHITNEY@AOL.COM
        The biggest reason people today prefer shoulder to neck slings is almost all reproduction drums are much heavier than original drums. The shells today are
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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          The biggest reason people today prefer shoulder to neck slings is almost all reproduction drums are much heavier than original drums. The shells today are often thicker, or longer, or wider, all addding to the weight. Also the hoops are often thicker and taller, the leather ears thicker and wider, and they have more metal hardware on them than the originals, which usually had none. Even snare strainers don't show up on most original drums I've seen. All of this makes the drum heavier. The exception would probably be brass shelled drums, although not owning one, I don't know how they compare to wood in overall weight.
           
          I've always used a neck sling. Then again, I've never owned a heavy Cooperman. My original snares weigh around six pounds, and I haven't found them to be a problem. It would be interesting to hear how much other's drums weigh.
        • richard ruquist
          My Cooperman 17 by 15 , a Mollier repro made by Roger Hunnewell in exchange for my Post 245 Mollier # 3, weighs 10 pounds. But the usual Cooperman with veneer
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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            My Cooperman 17" by 15", a Mollier repro made by Roger Hunnewell in exchange for my Post 245 Mollier # 3, weighs 10 pounds. But the usual Cooperman with veneer seems to be somewhat heavier.

            JOEWHITNEY@... wrote:
            The biggest reason people today prefer shoulder to neck slings is almost all reproduction drums are much heavier than original drums. The shells today are often thicker, or longer, or wider, all addding to the weight. Also the hoops are often thicker and taller, the leather ears thicker and wider, and they have more metal hardware on them than the originals, which usually had none. Even snare strainers don't show up on most original drums I've seen. All of this makes the drum heavier. The exception would probably be brass shelled drums, although not owning one, I don't know how they compare to wood in overall weight.
             
            I've always used a neck sling. Then again, I've never owned a heavy Cooperman. My original snares weigh around six pounds, and I haven't found them to be a problem. It would be interesting to hear how much other's drums weigh.


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          • JOEWHITNEY@AOL.COM
            I think with a ten pound snare, I d want a shoulder sling too. That may have been the case back then as well, shoulder slings for heavier drums. Certainly the
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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              I think with a ten pound snare, I'd want a shoulder sling too. That may have been the case back then as well, shoulder slings for heavier drums. Certainly the larger, heavier drums of the 16th and 17th centuries used shoulder slings, so the neck slings probably came along with the general reduction in drum size in the late 18th century.
            • richard ruquist
              The Eli Brown drums used by Moodus must be quite heavy, being more like 18 by 16 or so. Perhaps Ron can enlighten us on their size and weight. Yet Sgt Beth
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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                The Eli Brown drums used by Moodus must be quite heavy, being more like 18' by 16' or so. Perhaps Ron can enlighten us on their size and weight. Yet Sgt Beth and the other Moodus drummers have no problem using neck slings. I cannot imagine that their slower cadence makes any difference at all. I think it's just TRADITION.

                JOEWHITNEY@... wrote:
                I think with a ten pound snare, I'd want a shoulder sling too. That may have been the case back then as well, shoulder slings for heavier drums. Certainly the larger, heavier drums of the 16th and 17th centuries used shoulder slings, so the neck slings probably came along with the general reduction in drum size in the late 18th century.


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              • David Dooks
                As a fifer, I can t speak from personal experience in carrying a drum around the neck, however my first regiment did just that. In the earlier days of HM 10th
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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                  As a fifer, I can't speak from personal experience in carrying a drum around the neck, however my first regiment did just that. 

                  In the earlier days of HM 10th Foot, Col. Vincent Kehoe purchased drums from Potter in England.  The were big monsters, but light weight.  The drum slings were neck slings and had a brass ring with a hook on the end.  There was another brass ring on the drum that the hook went through.

                  Unfortunately, I have no idea where any living drummers are, or the Potter drums for that matter, (the last know drummer to have a Potter drum hasn't been withthe regiment since the mid 1980s).   Where Col. Kehoe got his documentation for the sling design (if he had any) I don't know.  I will try to track down any info from the 10th on this and post it if I can.

                  David Dooks

                  JOEWHITNEY@... wrote:
                  The biggest reason people today prefer shoulder to neck slings is almost all reproduction drums are much heavier than original drums. The shells today are often thicker, or longer, or wider, all addding to the weight. Also the hoops are often thicker and taller, the leather ears thicker and wider, and they have more metal hardware on them than the originals, which usually had none. Even snare strainers don't show up on most original drums I've seen. All of this makes the drum heavier. The exception would probably be brass shelled drums, although not owning one, I don't know how they compare to wood in overall weight.
                   
                  I've always used a neck sling. Then again, I've never owned a heavy Cooperman. My original snares weigh around six pounds, and I haven't found them to be a problem. It would be interesting to hear how much other's drums weigh.

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                • JOEWHITNEY@AOL.COM
                  Tradition, plus personal preference and neck muscles. Of course, in military organizations, personal preference would probably have had to take a back seat to
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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                    Tradition, plus personal preference and neck muscles. Of course, in military organizations, personal preference would probably have had to take a back seat to orders.
                     
                    I do believe that the drive for a more military, symmetrical look of the drummer, with the drum centered in front of the player without the left elbow sticking out or slid to the rear, influenced the evolution of the mounting method. Today's modern marching drums are mounted directly to the front and vertical, and played with matched grip.
                  • richard ruquist
                    However, now (e.g., DCI, Old Guard too) the right elbow sticks way out. The moderns have lost the symmetry of elbow motion around the vertical exemplified by
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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                      However, now (e.g., DCI, Old Guard too) the right elbow sticks way out. The moderns have lost the symmetry of elbow motion around the vertical exemplified by the older ancients, but not the younger ones influenced by drum & bugle. Also lost by almost all drummers is the 'droop' that Mollier carried to an extreme. For example Lemley had it, but Pace did not, both played together in the Regimentals and later the Mariners. Today, in the Whiskey Boys. Mitchell has it, but Sprance does not, the droop that is. But none of them stuck their right elbows way out.

                      JOEWHITNEY@... wrote:
                      Tradition, plus personal preference and neck muscles. Of course, in military organizations, personal preference would probably have had to take a back seat to orders.
                       
                      I do believe that the drive for a more military, symmetrical look of the drummer, with the drum centered in front of the player without the left elbow sticking out or slid to the rear, influenced the evolution of the mounting method. Today's modern marching drums are mounted directly to the front and vertical, and played with matched grip.


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                    • Rich Benoit
                      Could you please better define the droop ? I m not sure I want to be anywhere near any drummer with it . . . ... From: 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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                        Could you please better define "the droop"?  I'm not sure I want to be anywhere near any drummer with it . . .
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:18cMusic@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of richard ruquist
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 1:02 PM
                        To: 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [18cMusic] More on drum slings

                        However, now (e.g., DCI, Old Guard too) the right elbow sticks way out. The moderns have lost the symmetry of elbow motion around the vertical exemplified by the older ancients, but not the younger ones influenced by drum & bugle. Also lost by almost all drummers is the 'droop' that Mollier carried to an extreme. For example Lemley had it, but Pace did not, both played together in the Regimentals and later the Mariners. Today, in the Whiskey Boys. Mitchell has it, but Sprance does not, the droop that is. But none of them stuck their right elbows way out.

                        JOEWHITNEY@... wrote:
                        Tradition, plus personal preference and neck muscles. Of course, in military organizations, personal preference would probably have had to take a back seat to orders.
                         
                        I do believe that the drive for a more military, symmetrical look of the drummer, with the drum centered in front of the player without the left elbow sticking out or slid to the rear, influenced the evolution of the mounting method. Today's modern marching drums are mounted directly to the front and vertical, and played with matched grip.


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                      • Brian Watkinson
                        Richard, Could you explain what you mean by the droop ? ... From: richard ruquist To: 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 1:01 PM
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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                          Richard,
                           
                          Could you explain what you mean by the "droop"?
                           
                           
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 1:01 PM
                          Subject: Re: [18cMusic] More on drum slings

                          However, now (e.g., DCI, Old Guard too) the right elbow sticks way out. The moderns have lost the symmetry of elbow motion around the vertical exemplified by the older ancients, but not the younger ones influenced by drum & bugle. Also lost by almost all drummers is the 'droop' that Mollier carried to an extreme. For example Lemley had it, but Pace did not, both played together in the Regimentals and later the Mariners. Today, in the Whiskey Boys. Mitchell has it, but Sprance does not, the droop that is. But none of them stuck their right elbows way out.

                          JOEWHITNEY@... wrote:
                          Tradition, plus personal preference and neck muscles. Of course, in military organizations, personal preference would probably have had to take a back seat to orders.
                           
                          I do believe that the drive for a more military, symmetrical look of the drummer, with the drum centered in front of the player without the left elbow sticking out or slid to the rear, influenced the evolution of the mounting method. Today's modern marching drums are mounted directly to the front and vertical, and played with matched grip.


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                        • Ronald Peeler
                          Richard Richard I do not know any actual weights, but I do know an 18 X 18 Eli Brown drum (circa 1820) weights much less than a smaller Cooperman drum.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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                            Richard
                            Richard

                            I do not know any actual weights, but I do know an 18 X 18 Eli Brown drum
                            (circa 1820) weights much less than a smaller Cooperman drum. Whenever a
                            non- Moodus drummer picks up one of our drums to examine them, almost always
                            the first comment is how surprised they are on how light these large old
                            drums actually are. .
                            If you are ever at an event, go see a Moodus Drummer. They are very proud of
                            their drums and wouldn�t mind showing them off. Who knows they may even let
                            you play one (Calfskin heads unmuffled) If you want a real treat, pick up
                            the Bass

                            For more information on the Eli Brown drums, visit www.moodusdrums.com

                            Ron Peeler
                            President Moodus Drum and Fife
                            Drum Major Moodus Drum and Fife
                            (So much power, so little time)


                            ----Original Message Follows----
                            From: richard ruquist <yanniru@...>
                            Reply-To: 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com
                            To: 18cMusic@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [18cMusic] More on drum slings
                            Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:18:36 -0800 (PST)

                            The Eli Brown drums used by Moodus must be quite heavy, being more like 18'
                            by 16' or so. Perhaps Ron can enlighten us on their size and weight. Yet Sgt
                            Beth and the other Moodus drummers have no problem using neck slings. I
                            cannot imagine that their slower cadence makes any difference at all. I
                            think it's just TRADITION.

                            JOEWHITNEY@... wrote: I think with a ten pound snare, I'd want a
                            shoulder sling too. That may have been the case back then as well, shoulder
                            slings for heavier drums. Certainly the larger, heavier drums of the 16th
                            and 17th centuries used shoulder slings, so the neck slings probably came
                            along with the general reduction in drum size in the late 18th century.



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                          • JOEWHITNEY@AOL.COM
                            Richard, when Sprance and I toured Ireland with Duke Terreri, I could have sworn I saw him droop once or twice, but Guinness will do that.
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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                              Richard, when Sprance and I toured Ireland with Duke Terreri, I could have sworn I saw him droop once or twice, but Guinness will do that.
                            • richard ruquist
                              JOEWHITNEY@AOL.COM wrote: Richard, when Sprance and I toured Ireland with Duke Terreri, I could have sworn I saw him droop once or twice, but Guinness
                              Message 14 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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                                JOEWHITNEY@... wrote:
                                Richard, when Sprance and I toured Ireland with Duke Terreri, I could have sworn I saw him droop once or twice, but Guinness will do that.


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                              • richard ruquist
                                The best example of the droop is when say making a right hand Flam, you play the grace note with the left by rotating the hand towards the body at the same
                                Message 15 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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                                  The best example of the 'droop' is when say making a right hand Flam, you play the grace note with the left by rotating the hand towards the body at the same time that you lift it of the next rudiment. That usually moves the elbow away from the body.
                                   
                                  So say you are playing a Flamacue, by using the droop and moving the left elbow away from the body, you can use your left arm like a whip to get a strong accent on the left stroke.
                                   
                                  The droop can also be used in the roll. In this case, the elbow moves away from the body as the hand is rotated towards the body to get the second stroke of the double stroke as strong as the first. That can also be achieved by finger pressure- increasing finger pressure for the second stroke; which is actually achieves a faster roll- probably why it's DCI, plus uniformity among several drummers is more easily achieved.
                                   
                                  But to my mind Ancient drumming is characterized by the droop and it is much more flamboyant, although the level of flamboyance achieved by Mollier who drooped the stick all the way to the level of his head is too flamboyant (and slow) for my taste.
                                   
                                  If you are a Civil War drummer (reenactor) rather than an Ancient, then the droop seems to be necessary for clean poing strokes, something I have yet to master. For example, Jimmy Clark, who is not a drooper, seems to droop for his poing strokes. Joe will want to comment on this.
                                   
                                  Richard

                                  Brian Watkinson <brian@...> wrote:
                                  Richard,
                                   
                                  Could you explain what you mean by the "droop"?
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 1:01 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [18cMusic] More on drum slings

                                  However, now (e.g., DCI, Old Guard too) the right elbow sticks way out. The moderns have lost the symmetry of elbow motion around the vertical exemplified by the older ancients, but not the younger ones influenced by drum & bugle. Also lost by almost all drummers is the 'droop' that Mollier carried to an extreme. For example Lemley had it, but Pace did not, both played together in the Regimentals and later the Mariners. Today, in the Whiskey Boys. Mitchell has it, but Sprance does not, the droop that is. But none of them stuck their right elbows way out.

                                  JOEWHITNEY@... wrote:
                                  Tradition, plus personal preference and neck muscles. Of course, in military organizations, personal preference would probably have had to take a back seat to orders.
                                   
                                  I do believe that the drive for a more military, symmetrical look of the drummer, with the drum centered in front of the player without the left elbow sticking out or slid to the rear, influenced the evolution of the mounting method. Today's modern marching drums are mounted directly to the front and vertical, and played with matched grip.


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