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Re: Spyder/Spider 19th c term

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  • Jennifer Dobyns
    The endyclopaedia goes from Skiff to Skin. No Skillet, either. However, there are several pages devoted to Shorthand *L* Like I said, I suspect its too
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 1, 2012
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      The endyclopaedia goes from Skiff to Skin. No Skillet, either.
      However, there are several pages devoted to Shorthand *L*
      Like I said, I suspect its too domestic to be considered by the author.

      > Re: Spyder/Spider 19th c term
      > Posted by: "grymm23@..." grymm23@... grymm23
      > Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:19 am (PST)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 'Ows about skillet?
      >
      > at least that's the term we use for the leggy bronze cookware with a
      > handle at Hampton Court =o/
      >
      > --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Dobyns <jendobyns@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hmm, I just checked my Encyclopaedia Brittanica (reproduction 18C
      > > version) and struck out entirely, nothing entered for frying pan,
      > > spider or trivet. Since the first half of the alphabet is two
      > > volumes, and the volume from M-Z is only one, it could be surmised
      > > that the author ran out of steam *G*. OTOH, perhaps small domestic
      > > things such as these weren't important enough to consider.
      > >
      > > Jen
      > >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Martha Katz-Hyman
      I may have been the person talking about cooking equipment nomenclature at George Mason several years ago and, yes, the term spider or spyder (depends on
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 2, 2012
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        I may have been the person talking about cooking equipment nomenclature at
        George Mason several years ago and, yes, the term "spider" or "spyder"
        (depends on how it was spelled in a particular source) is, in general, a
        19th century term.

        However (and there are always "howevers"), I searched the Gunston Hall
        probate inventory database that is available via the Center for History and
        New Media at George Mason University (
        http://chnm.gmu.edu/probateinventory/index.php) and found 13 instances of
        the term "spider" in the 325 probate inventories included in the database.
        The earliest was in 1781 in Rawleigh Downman's inventory (Lancaster County,
        VA); the latest was 1809 in the inventory of Dr. Daniel Jenifer (Charles
        County, MD). Having a spider or two in the inventory did not preclude
        having a "frying pan" as well.

        Trivets, as list members know, are what flat-bottomed pots or pans of
        various types rest upon; skillets are cast iron or cast bell metal utensils
        with short (1"-2") legs and long handles. Frying pans have flat bottoms and
        long handles.

        I did look again at the Colonial Williamsburg website for the York County
        inventories, but they are not easily searchable for specific objects.

        Hope this helps.

        Martha Katz-Hyman
        Independent Curator


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mary S.
        Dear list, I m probably more interested than many list members in the history of words, in particular, how, where and when prticular terms are intoduced and
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 2, 2012
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          Dear list,

          I'm probably more interested than many list members in the history of words, in particular, how, where and when prticular terms are intoduced and come into common usage (or not). That being said, putting together the information from the posts by Martha, Sue, Hallie and Niels, there's a noticeable pattern: the earliest references are in the New England, and within twenty years, there's references in Virginia and Maryland. But, no references in England: at least none in the popular dictionaries, which suggests that the use of "spider/spyder" to describe a specific piece of cookware wasn't common enough to be recorded by the lexicographer, if it was used at all in that sense. Then, by the nineteenth century, the term has spread and become common enough that it's no longer a regional expression.

          Well, as a pattern of development, that's only conjectural and more information could point elsewhere. (Thank you, Martha, for the concise definition of skillet.)

          Mary S.

          --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com, Martha Katz-Hyman <martha.katzhyman@...> wrote:
          >
          > I may have been the person talking about cooking equipment nomenclature at
          > George Mason several years ago and, yes, the term "spider" or "spyder"
          > (depends on how it was spelled in a particular source) is, in general, a
          > 19th century term.
          >
          > However (and there are always "howevers"), I searched the Gunston Hall
          > probate inventory database that is available via the Center for History and
          > New Media at George Mason University (
          > http://chnm.gmu.edu/probateinventory/index.php) and found 13 instances of
          > the term "spider" in the 325 probate inventories included in the database.
          > The earliest was in 1781 in Rawleigh Downman's inventory (Lancaster County,
          > VA); the latest was 1809 in the inventory of Dr. Daniel Jenifer (Charles
          > County, MD). Having a spider or two in the inventory did not preclude
          > having a "frying pan" as well.
          >
          > Trivets, as list members know, are what flat-bottomed pots or pans of
          > various types rest upon; skillets are cast iron or cast bell metal utensils
          > with short (1"-2") legs and long handles. Frying pans have flat bottoms and
          > long handles.
          >
          > I did look again at the Colonial Williamsburg website for the York County
          > inventories, but they are not easily searchable for specific objects.
          >
          > Hope this helps.
          >
          > Martha Katz-Hyman
          > Independent Curator
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Ron Carnegie
          Jim Gay (of 18th century Chocolate fame) long ago came to this same conclusion. He was of teh opinion that in the 1770s spider was not usually used in the
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 2, 2012
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            Jim Gay (of 18th century Chocolate fame) long ago came to this same conclusion. He was of teh opinion that in the 1770s spider was not usually used in the south but was being used in New England.

            Thought I would add, since Grymm asked, at Colonial Williamsburg we also refer to a skillet as a saucepot shaped pan on little legs. Ours are all bell metal to the best of my knowledge. Never researched into the usage myself, but it is certainly what I was taught when I was going through foodways training years ago.

            Ron Carnegie







            Dear list,

            I'm probably more interested than many list members in the history of words, in particular, how, where and when prticular terms are intoduced and come into common usage (or not). That being said, putting together the information from the posts by Martha, Sue, Hallie and Niels, there's a noticeable pattern: the earliest references are in the New England, and within twenty years, there's references in Virginia and Maryland. But, no references in England: at least none in the popular dictionaries, which suggests that the use of "spider/spyder" to describe a specific piece of cookware wasn't common enough to be recorded by the lexicographer, if it was used at all in that sense. Then, by the nineteenth century, the term has spread and become common enough that it's no longer a regional expression.

            Well, as a pattern of development, that's only conjectural and more information could point elsewhere. (Thank you, Martha, for the concise definition of skillet.)

            Mary S.

            --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com, Martha Katz-Hyman <martha.katzhyman@...> wrote:
            >
            > I may have been the person talking about cooking equipment nomenclature at
            > George Mason several years ago and, yes, the term "spider" or "spyder"
            > (depends on how it was spelled in a particular source) is, in general, a
            > 19th century term.
            >
            > However (and there are always "howevers"), I searched the Gunston Hall
            > probate inventory database that is available via the Center for History and
            > New Media at George Mason University (
            > http://chnm.gmu.edu/probateinventory/index.php) and found 13 instances of
            > the term "spider" in the 325 probate inventories included in the database.
            > The earliest was in 1781 in Rawleigh Downman's inventory (Lancaster County,
            > VA); the latest was 1809 in the inventory of Dr. Daniel Jenifer (Charles
            > County, MD). Having a spider or two in the inventory did not preclude
            > having a "frying pan" as well.
            >
            > Trivets, as list members know, are what flat-bottomed pots or pans of
            > various types rest upon; skillets are cast iron or cast bell metal utensils
            > with short (1"-2") legs and long handles. Frying pans have flat bottoms and
            > long handles.
            >
            > I did look again at the Colonial Williamsburg website for the York County
            > inventories, but they are not easily searchable for specific objects.
            >
            > Hope this helps.
            >
            > Martha Katz-Hyman
            > Independent Curator
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • officesup
            I might have missed it, but has anyone looked up the different spellings in the OED? that would have the earliest known references to it as a cooking
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 3, 2012
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              I might have missed it, but has anyone looked up the different spellings in the OED? that would have the earliest known references to it as a cooking 'thing'....

              Amy

              --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com, "ccrown57" <crowncate@...> wrote:
              >
              > In reply to Meryl's Q about her trivet, someone mentioned that they learned spider is a 19th c term. Did I read this right? And, if I did, does someone then know the correct 18th c term for our long handled pan on long legs?
              > Thanks,
              > Cate
              >
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