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  • Carol Kocian
    Dear Listmembers, Best wishes for a happy, healthy and prosperous 2012! Thank you for being a member of the 18cLife community. The discussions on the list have
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 1, 2012
      Dear Listmembers,

      Best wishes for a happy, healthy and prosperous 2012!

      Thank you for being a member of the 18cLife community. The
      discussions on the list have been great so far and we look forward to
      many more! Just a reminder, details can be found in the About This
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      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/18cLife/files/18cLifeAbout.html


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    • Bob Johnson
      In Esther Burr s Journal kept in the middle to late 1700 s (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
        In Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
        One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
        It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).

        Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?
        I would very much appreciate any responses.
        TIA
        Hugs


        Bob Johnson

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Colleen Humphreys
        ... Well, you do see occasional mentions of a child sent to help a neighbor. I can t quote any, off hand. But, as a parent of 4, youngest being 13, I will
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
          On Jan 4, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Bob Johnson wrote:

          > n Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
          > One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
          > It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).
          >
          > Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?

          Well, you do see occasional mentions of a child sent to help a neighbor. I can't quote any, off hand. But, as a parent of 4, youngest being 13, I will tell you that a child works better, harder, and more cheerfully for someone other than its own parents! Friends and I have been known to trade kids, for just this reason! Occasionally another parent will ask me to tell their child something, or I ask them to do the same with mine, because it works better! So, well, this idea is very believable. It still needs documenting, but the underlying reason has not likely changed!

          Colleen

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bob Johnson
          Thanks for the suggestion Colleen. I should probably pointed out that Esther s middle name is Edwards - Her father was Jonathan Edwards who let the first Great
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
            Thanks for the suggestion Colleen.
            I should probably pointed out that Esther's middle name is Edwards - Her father was Jonathan Edwards who let the first Great Awakening. Her husband - Aaron Burr, Sr. was also a minister (his courtship of Esther is an interesting story in its own right). Aaron Sr. was the first president of the College of NJ (IIMC) which became Princeton University.

            For you historyphiles, let me add. Aaron Sr. died when Jr. was either 2 or 4 years old (My memory is in constant diminishment, I suppose I could google Jr. or turn my chair around and look at on of the 8 biographies of Jr. to be spot on, but it's not that important in context). Jonathan Edwards came to Princeton to take over and promptly died. Shortly thereafter Esther died. William Shippen took his Jr. and sister Sally (Sarah). He, BTW, was an uncle to Peggy Shippen who married Benedict Arnold who (likely) encouraged his traitorous action. You just have to love this period in history where connections are made in much less than six steps.

            So, I originally started out about who Esther was to point out and suggest that such a religious family, who took in other daughters (not sons as far I know) did not do so lightly or for short periods of time.
            There are stories, which I have not tracked down, then young girls were sent to stay with others for a short period of time to learn a specific skill. But Esther specifically sent the girls she wrote about were to learn housewifery and alluded to their stay for long periods, often getting married whilst sent to learn.

            I am 70 YO and not likely long for this world, but I really hope to learn more about this idea. Perhaps it was only in Presbyterian homes?
            Hugs
            Bob







            On Jan 4, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Bob Johnson wrote:

            > n Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
            > One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
            > It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).
            >
            > Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?

            Well, you do see occasional mentions of a child sent to help a neighbor. I can't quote any, off hand. But, as a parent of 4, youngest being 13, I will tell you that a child works better, harder, and more cheerfully for someone other than its own parents! Friends and I have been known to trade kids, for just this reason! Occasionally another parent will ask me to tell their child something, or I ask them to do the same with mine, because it works better! So, well, this idea is very believable. It still needs documenting, but the underlying reason has not likely changed!

            Colleen

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • livesinclimax
            it s very much mentioned by martha ballard -later in the century in rural maine, i think it;s akin to the modern thing of parents shouldn/tteach their own kid
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
              it's very much mentioned by martha ballard -later in the century in rural maine, i think it;s akin to the modern thing of parents shouldn/tteach their own kid to drive -as well as broadening the social area!
              [and,btw,two generations of burr women,one aaron;s sister married into my family - and the branches were close --and i still have a cousin theodosia,

              perry who is still in the er 24 hours later waiting for a bed to open up -and apologize fot the bizzarre typing but it's hard with monitors taped to your fingers,,,'

              perry

              --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Johnson <bobjinpa@...> wrote:
              >
              > In Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
              > One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
              > It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).
              >
              > Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?
              > I would very much appreciate any responses.
              > TIA
              > Hugs
              >
              >
              > Bob Johnson
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Bob Johnson
              thanks Perry. I will have to check Martha out. That is so cool to be related to Aaron. He is my favorite American historic person. He should have been Prez
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
                thanks Perry. I will have to check Martha out.
                That is so cool to be related to Aaron. He is my favorite American historic person. He should have been Prez instead TJ in 1800.
                If I knew about Aaron when my daughter was born, I would have named her Theodosia, but she probably would have hated in. She uses her middle name now.
                Aaron's sister Sally married (Forget his name) but he was an important Jurist in CT IIRC and if Aaron was Prez, he would have surely had his Bro in law in his administration.
                . Sally and Aaron were very close. Not surprising considering their childhood.
                I hope you are doing well and out of the ER. Good Luck
                Hugs
                Bob






                it's very much mentioned by martha ballard -later in the century in rural maine, i think it;s akin to the modern thing of parents shouldn/tteach their own kid to drive -as well as broadening the social area!
                [and,btw,two generations of burr women,one aaron;s sister married into my family - and the branches were close --and i still have a cousin theodosia,

                perry who is still in the er 24 hours later waiting for a bed to open up -and apologize fot the bizzarre typing but it's hard with monitors taped to your fingers,,,'

                perry

                --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com , Bob Johnson <bobjinpa@...> wrote:
                >
                > In Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
                > One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
                > It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).
                >
                > Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?
                > I would very much appreciate any responses.
                > TIA
                > Hugs
                >
                >
                > Bob Johnson
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • livesinclimax
                sorry - A mid-wife s Tale, by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich --and i think the whole thing is on line at the maine archives perry
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
                  sorry - A mid-wife's Tale, by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich --and i think the whole thing is on line at the maine archives

                  perry

                  --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com, "livesinclimax" <livesinclimax@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > it's very much mentioned by martha ballard -later in the century in rural maine, i think it;s akin to the modern thing of parents shouldn/tteach their own kid to drive -as well as broadening the social area!
                  > [and,btw,two generations of burr women,one aaron;s sister married into my family - and the branches were close --and i still have a cousin theodosia,
                  >
                  > perry who is still in the er 24 hours later waiting for a bed to open up -and apologize fot the bizzarre typing but it's hard with monitors taped to your fingers,,,'
                  >
                  > perry
                  >
                  > --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Johnson <bobjinpa@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > In Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
                  > > One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
                  > > It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).
                  > >
                  > > Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?
                  > > I would very much appreciate any responses.
                  > > TIA
                  > > Hugs
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Bob Johnson
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                • lillalette
                  There are contracts from the 16th and 17th centuries in England about girls being sent to be apprenticed to learn skills that will make them good housewives.
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
                    There are contracts from the 16th and 17th centuries in England about girls being sent to be apprenticed to learn skills that will make them good housewives. Sometimes the apprenticeships are to widows, sometimes to husbands and wives, and sometimes to a man alone. I haven't seen too many that are to a married woman alone, and I kind of wonder if with the ones to a man alone, the man is actually married and his wife is the one who's going to be instructing and he's just the one who entered into the contract.

                    Here's a record for one I turned up on the UK National Archives site dated 1705:

                    "Apprenticeship indenture of Mary Bensted to John Hooper, tailor and Elizabeth his wife to learn knitting, sewing and housewifery P32/14/1/2 14 January 1705"

                    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=010-p32&cid=4-3-1-2#4-3-1-2

                    I would assume that Esther Burr's practice was a continuation of this in America -- probably without formal indentures? I'm not sure how long it continued in England, but if you go to the National Archives and search for "housewifery" between the dates of 1700 and 1800, you'll turn up results for apprenticeship indentures for housewifery into the 1780s.

                    Sarah/msmcknittington

                    --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Johnson <bobjinpa@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks for the suggestion Colleen.
                    > I should probably pointed out that Esther's middle name is Edwards - Her father was Jonathan Edwards who let the first Great Awakening. Her husband - Aaron Burr, Sr. was also a minister (his courtship of Esther is an interesting story in its own right). Aaron Sr. was the first president of the College of NJ (IIMC) which became Princeton University.
                    >
                    > For you historyphiles, let me add. Aaron Sr. died when Jr. was either 2 or 4 years old (My memory is in constant diminishment, I suppose I could google Jr. or turn my chair around and look at on of the 8 biographies of Jr. to be spot on, but it's not that important in context). Jonathan Edwards came to Princeton to take over and promptly died. Shortly thereafter Esther died. William Shippen took his Jr. and sister Sally (Sarah). He, BTW, was an uncle to Peggy Shippen who married Benedict Arnold who (likely) encouraged his traitorous action. You just have to love this period in history where connections are made in much less than six steps.
                    >
                    > So, I originally started out about who Esther was to point out and suggest that such a religious family, who took in other daughters (not sons as far I know) did not do so lightly or for short periods of time.
                    > There are stories, which I have not tracked down, then young girls were sent to stay with others for a short period of time to learn a specific skill. But Esther specifically sent the girls she wrote about were to learn housewifery and alluded to their stay for long periods, often getting married whilst sent to learn.
                    >
                    > I am 70 YO and not likely long for this world, but I really hope to learn more about this idea. Perhaps it was only in Presbyterian homes?
                    > Hugs
                    > Bob
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Jan 4, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Bob Johnson wrote:
                    >
                    > > n Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
                    > > One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
                    > > It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).
                    > >
                    > > Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?
                    >
                    > Well, you do see occasional mentions of a child sent to help a neighbor. I can't quote any, off hand. But, as a parent of 4, youngest being 13, I will tell you that a child works better, harder, and more cheerfully for someone other than its own parents! Friends and I have been known to trade kids, for just this reason! Occasionally another parent will ask me to tell their child something, or I ask them to do the same with mine, because it works better! So, well, this idea is very believable. It still needs documenting, but the underlying reason has not likely changed!
                    >
                    > Colleen
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • elegantbjg
                    Martha Ballard s diary is at www.dohistory.org. It is a really wonderful site, and if you have A Midwife s Tale , you can follow up on the entries--not just
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
                      Martha Ballard's diary is at www.dohistory.org. It is a really wonderful site, and if you have "A Midwife's Tale", you can follow up on the entries--not just read the ones Laurel Thatcher Ulrich picked.

                      Beth

                      --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com, "livesinclimax" <livesinclimax@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > it's very much mentioned by martha ballard -later in the century in rural maine, i think it;s akin to the modern thing of parents shouldn/tteach their own kid to drive -as well as broadening the social area!
                      > [and,btw,two generations of burr women,one aaron;s sister married into my family - and the branches were close --and i still have a cousin theodosia,
                      >
                      > perry who is still in the er 24 hours later waiting for a bed to open up -and apologize fot the bizzarre typing but it's hard with monitors taped to your fingers,,,'
                      >
                      > perry
                      >
                      > --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Johnson <bobjinpa@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > In Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
                      > > One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
                      > > It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).
                      > >
                      > > Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?
                      > > I would very much appreciate any responses.
                      > > TIA
                      > > Hugs
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Bob Johnson
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                    • Bob Johnson
                      Thanks Sara or should I address you as Lillalette? I will look into that. Hugs Bob There are contracts from the 16th and 17th centuries in England about girls
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
                        Thanks Sara or should I address you as Lillalette?
                        I will look into that.
                        Hugs


                        Bob






                        There are contracts from the 16th and 17th centuries in England about girls being sent to be apprenticed to learn skills that will make them good housewives. Sometimes the apprenticeships are to widows, sometimes to husbands and wives, and sometimes to a man alone. I haven't seen too many that are to a married woman alone, and I kind of wonder if with the ones to a man alone, the man is actually married and his wife is the one who's going to be instructing and he's just the one who entered into the contract.

                        Here's a record for one I turned up on the UK National Archives site dated 1705:

                        "Apprenticeship indenture of Mary Bensted to John Hooper, tailor and Elizabeth his wife to learn knitting, sewing and housewifery P32/14/1/2 14 January 1705"

                        http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=010-p32&cid=4-3-1-2#4-3-1-2

                        I would assume that Esther Burr's practice was a continuation of this in America -- probably without formal indentures? I'm not sure how long it continued in England, but if you go to the National Archives and search for "housewifery" between the dates of 1700 and 1800, you'll turn up results for apprenticeship indentures for housewifery into the 1780s.

                        Sarah/msmcknittington

                        --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com , Bob Johnson <bobjinpa@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Thanks for the suggestion Colleen.
                        > I should probably pointed out that Esther's middle name is Edwards - Her father was Jonathan Edwards who let the first Great Awakening. Her husband - Aaron Burr, Sr. was also a minister (his courtship of Esther is an interesting story in its own right). Aaron Sr. was the first president of the College of NJ (IIMC) which became Princeton University.
                        >
                        > For you historyphiles, let me add. Aaron Sr. died when Jr. was either 2 or 4 years old (My memory is in constant diminishment, I suppose I could google Jr. or turn my chair around and look at on of the 8 biographies of Jr. to be spot on, but it's not that important in context). Jonathan Edwards came to Princeton to take over and promptly died. Shortly thereafter Esther died. William Shippen took his Jr. and sister Sally (Sarah). He, BTW, was an uncle to Peggy Shippen who married Benedict Arnold who (likely) encouraged his traitorous action. You just have to love this period in history where connections are made in much less than six steps.
                        >
                        > So, I originally started out about who Esther was to point out and suggest that such a religious family, who took in other daughters (not sons as far I know) did not do so lightly or for short periods of time.
                        > There are stories, which I have not tracked down, then young girls were sent to stay with others for a short period of time to learn a specific skill. But Esther specifically sent the girls she wrote about were to learn housewifery and alluded to their stay for long periods, often getting married whilst sent to learn.
                        >
                        > I am 70 YO and not likely long for this world, but I really hope to learn more about this idea. Perhaps it was only in Presbyterian homes?
                        > Hugs
                        > Bob
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Jan 4, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Bob Johnson wrote:
                        >
                        > > n Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
                        > > One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
                        > > It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).
                        > >
                        > > Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?
                        >
                        > Well, you do see occasional mentions of a child sent to help a neighbor. I can't quote any, off hand. But, as a parent of 4, youngest being 13, I will tell you that a child works better, harder, and more cheerfully for someone other than its own parents! Friends and I have been known to trade kids, for just this reason! Occasionally another parent will ask me to tell their child something, or I ask them to do the same with mine, because it works better! So, well, this idea is very believable. It still needs documenting, but the underlying reason has not likely changed!
                        >
                        > Colleen
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Bob Johnson
                        Thanks Beth - I added A Midwife s Tale to my Amazon Wish list. Hugs Bob J ... From: elegantbjg To: 18cLife@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
                          Thanks Beth -
                          I added A Midwife's Tale to my Amazon Wish list.
                          Hugs


                          Bob J

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "elegantbjg" <BethGilgun@...>
                          To: 18cLife@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2012 4:25:17 PM
                          Subject: [18cLife] Re: I have a question






                          Martha Ballard's diary is at www.dohistory.org. It is a really wonderful site, and if you have "A Midwife's Tale", you can follow up on the entries--not just read the ones Laurel Thatcher Ulrich picked.

                          Beth

                          --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com , "livesinclimax" <livesinclimax@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > it's very much mentioned by martha ballard -later in the century in rural maine, i think it;s akin to the modern thing of parents shouldn/tteach their own kid to drive -as well as broadening the social area!
                          > [and,btw,two generations of burr women,one aaron;s sister married into my family - and the branches were close --and i still have a cousin theodosia,
                          >
                          > perry who is still in the er 24 hours later waiting for a bed to open up -and apologize fot the bizzarre typing but it's hard with monitors taped to your fingers,,,'
                          >
                          > perry
                          >
                          > --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com , Bob Johnson <bobjinpa@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > In Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
                          > > One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
                          > > It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).
                          > >
                          > > Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?
                          > > I would very much appreciate any responses.
                          > > TIA
                          > > Hugs
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Bob Johnson
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • lillalette
                          Sarah is fine! I should really set up a new Yahoo account with a name I actually use, but I find I am too lazy to rejoin and have my memberships approved again
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
                            Sarah is fine! I should really set up a new Yahoo account with a name I actually use, but I find I am too lazy to rejoin and have my memberships approved again to all the groups I read. All three!

                            Sarah

                            --- In 18cLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Johnson <bobjinpa@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Thanks Sara or should I address you as Lillalette?
                            > I will look into that.
                            > Hugs
                            >
                            >
                            > Bob
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > There are contracts from the 16th and 17th centuries in England about girls being sent to be apprenticed to learn skills that will make them good housewives. Sometimes the apprenticeships are to widows, sometimes to husbands and wives, and sometimes to a man alone. I haven't seen too many that are to a married woman alone, and I kind of wonder if with the ones to a man alone, the man is actually married and his wife is the one who's going to be instructing and he's just the one who entered into the contract.
                            >
                            > Here's a record for one I turned up on the UK National Archives site dated 1705:
                            >
                            > "Apprenticeship indenture of Mary Bensted to John Hooper, tailor and Elizabeth his wife to learn knitting, sewing and housewifery P32/14/1/2 14 January 1705"
                            >
                            > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=010-p32&cid=4-3-1-2#4-3-1-2
                            >
                            > I would assume that Esther Burr's practice was a continuation of this in America -- probably without formal indentures? I'm not sure how long it continued in England, but if you go to the National Archives and search for "housewifery" between the dates of 1700 and 1800, you'll turn up results for apprenticeship indentures for housewifery into the 1780s.
                            >
                            > Sarah/msmcknittington
                          • colonialgal66
                            I remember reading about that practice somewhere, it may have been in Martha Ballards diary. I think that I ve read it elswhere, but can t remember where. YHS,
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
                              I remember reading about that practice somewhere, it may have been in Martha Ballards diary. I think that I've read it elswhere, but can't remember where.

                              YHS,

                              Doris
                            • Darrell A. Martin
                              On 1/4/2012 1:46 PM, Bob Johnson wrote: ... Bob: Jonathan Edwards was a Congregationalist, not a Presbyterian. However, the two groups were very close
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 4, 2012
                                On 1/4/2012 1:46 PM, Bob Johnson wrote:
                                ...

                                > ... But Esther specifically sent the girls she wrote about were to
                                > learn housewifery and alluded to their stay for long periods, often
                                > getting married whilst sent to learn.
                                >
                                > I am 70 YO and not likely long for this world, but I really hope to
                                > learn more about this idea. Perhaps it was only in Presbyterian homes?
                                > Hugs
                                > Bob

                                Bob:

                                Jonathan Edwards was a Congregationalist, not a Presbyterian. However,
                                the two groups were very close theologically during the Great Awakening.
                                *In this context* I do not believe it matters much. In terms of church
                                governance it made a significant difference.

                                Darrell
                              • Salmon381@aol.com
                                There were situations were one family had a lot of children and so some might be sent to another house hold to help out/work. This did two things-1. the family
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jan 5, 2012
                                  There were situations were one family had a lot of children and so some might be sent to another house hold to help out/work. This did two things-1. the family which the girl came had one less mouth to feed 2.the girl might make a little money and learn some house hold skills/management.(ok three things)
                                  One of the men I work with grew up in Pa. Mennonite community and was one of 12 children. When he was 15 his father "gave me to my uncle, because the uncle had not children to work on the farm". I realize that this is 20c., but apparently this was not an odd thing to do.
                                  Diane F







                                  ---- Original Message ----
                                  From: Bob Johnson <bobjinpa@...>
                                  To: 18cLife <18cLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:49 pm
                                  Subject: [18cLife] I have a question





                                  In Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
                                  One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
                                  It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).

                                  Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?
                                  I would very much appreciate any responses.
                                  TIA
                                  Hugs

                                  Bob Johnson

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Salmon381@aol.com
                                  Historically you see that one family is very poor, they will send a child or children to a relative that has better means or that lives in a better area-
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jan 5, 2012
                                    Historically you see that one family is very poor, they will send a child or children to a relative that has better means or that lives in a better area- unsafe city ghetto to fresh air of a farm
                                    Diane F







                                    ---- Original Message ----
                                    From: Colleen Humphreys <neen@...>
                                    To: 18cLife <18cLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wed, Jan 4, 2012 1:54 pm
                                    Subject: Re: [18cLife] I have a question






                                    On Jan 4, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Bob Johnson wrote:

                                    > n Esther Burr's Journal kept in the middle to late 1700's (She is the mother of Aaron Burr and I hope some of you know who he was), she writes about girls sent to her (and I believe, others sent to other families) to learn to be a housewife. I think this was done typically around the age of 12 but could go either way for a couple of years.
                                    > One could pre-suppose the girls would learn the art of cooking, baking, sewing, the spinning wheel, etc. However, I also think it might also have been a way for girls to be in a position to entertain marriage proposals.
                                    > It is a fascinating idea, at least to me. Although it would seem the girls could have learned the arts from her mother. Yet life in those days might require this process - a mother with too much to do (Too many children, operating a farm or business,etc.).
                                    >
                                    > Anyway, to my question. Has anyone come across this concept whether in fiction or non-fiction?

                                    Well, you do see occasional mentions of a child sent to help a neighbor. I can't quote any, off hand. But, as a parent of 4, youngest being 13, I will tell you that a child works better, harder, and more cheerfully for someone other than its own parents! Friends and I have been known to trade kids, for just this reason! Occasionally another parent will ask me to tell their child something, or I ask them to do the same with mine, because it works better! So, well, this idea is very believable. It still needs documenting, but the underlying reason has not likely changed!

                                    Colleen

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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • aquazoo@patriot.net
                                    Dear Listmembers, 18cLife has been going for over a year now, thank you everyone! Just a few reminders: To minimize bandwidth use and to protect us all from
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Nov 19, 2012
                                      Dear Listmembers,

                                      18cLife has been going for over a year now, thank you everyone!

                                      Just a few reminders:

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                                      With that out of the way, let's talk about harvest, holidays and winter
                                      projects, or anything else that strikes your 18th century fancy!

                                      Best Regards,
                                      The Moderators
                                    • Mayoress of Colonial Freeport
                                      And thank _you_, dear owners/moderators! This has been a very enjoyable list with very amiable members and bids fair to continue as such. You have my
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Nov 20, 2012
                                        And thank _you_, dear owners/moderators! This has been a very enjoyable list with
                                        very amiable members and bids fair to continue as such. You have my on-going
                                        gratitude for everything you have done so far and in the future.

                                        And for those who feel this time seems to have flown past, like myself, this list's
                                        'birthday' is actually 17 Sep! Tempus fugit when you're having fun! :-)

                                        (belatedly) Happy Birthday, 18cLife!

                                        YiS,
                                        Europa/Kate/Kitty
                                        www.colonialfreeport.org


                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: <aquazoo@...>
                                        To: <18cLife@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 11:32 AM
                                        Subject: [18cLife] List Reminder


                                        > Dear Listmembers,
                                        >
                                        > 18cLife has been going for over a year now, thank you everyone!
                                        >
                                        > Just a few reminders:
                                        >
                                        <snip>
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