From: dave [mailto:email@example.com] Folks: Bean counters at companies-i.e. who demand government forms-are empowered through propaganda to do theMessage 1 of 3 , Mar 4, 2010View Source
Bean counters at companies—i.e. who “demand” government forms—are empowered through propaganda to “do the work of government”. These are some of the most ignorant people you will encounter. That is because their “truth” comes ONLY from someone-else’s OPNION. Custom “rules” these people’s lives and that custom comes from the media—which is in turn—fed by “the fed”.
Never miss an opportunity to use the same media against them. In most cases simply claiming “identity theft victimization” works well. [I one time was in a police station visiting a friend and the sergeant “balked” at my unwillingness to provide “my” SSN. I simply pointed to the poster on the wall that stated “Be careful in revealing SSN’s]
In this article Fox Business News says “it’s ok to make up a SS number.” Ha Ha
[In my opinion 9 digits are 9 digits. Assigning them the LABEL “Social security Number” converts them from 9 digits to a number owned by and assigned by government. On most forms the words “Social Security Number” are NOT spelled-out but rather abbreviated. In such cases “SSN” could mean literally ANYTHING you desire. For example: safe-secure number, sam sovereign number, sucker stop number, etc. ]
When you should, shouldn't give out your Social Security number
Your Social Security number is one of the keys to your financial health. It's a unique indentifier lenders use to assess your creditworthiness. It's also exactly what a would-be thief needs to apply for a credit card, mortgage, car loan or job in your name.
If you're like most Americans, it's also something you give out all too frequently
"As with so many procedures in the business world, your Social Security number is something that many companies ask for, so no one really questions it," says James Van Dyke, president of Javelin Strategy & Research, a research firm that tracks financial services topics. "But giving out your Social Security number is definitely a practice consumers should think twice about."
Case in point: A recent Javelin Strategy & Research report -- the 2009 ID Fraud Survey -- found that, amongidentity theft victims, 38 percent said the perpetrator had obtained their Social Security number and used it in the crime. "It's certainly logical to say that you could eliminate 38 percent of your risk of identity theft by limiting access to your Social Security number," says Van Dyke.
'Your Social Security number, please'
Still, saying it and doing it are two different things. Many of the forms you encounter during the day -- at doctor's offices, at the dentist, at your child's school -- ask for Social Security numbers. Retailers may ask for it, too, when accepting a check for payment or before issuing check cashing privileges. Potential employers also need it, and they may even want a copy of the actual card, says Linda Foley, founder of the San Diego-based Identity Theft Resource Center (ITRC: undefined, undefined, undefined%). You'll also be asked for it at your local Department of Motor Vehicles, car dealerships, pawnshops, drugstores -- even at the airport, should you lose your luggage, she says. In fact, you may be surprised at how far-reaching this practice is, says Foley.
"A few years ago, we were putting some of my mother's things into storage, and they wanted her Social Security number to use as a passcode," she says. "It's that prevalent."
Just because someone asks for it doesn't mean you have to comply, says Michael J. Arata, the author of "Identity Theft For Dummies," especially since there are only a handful of organizations that actually have a valid need for it. For instance, anytime you're applying for credit -- for a new credit card, a loan, new telephone or cellular service -- the creditor will need your Social Security number to run a credit check. You'll also need to provide it if you are applying for federal or local government benefits such as Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid, unemployment insurance or disability. Another example: If you or your children receive services or aid at the state or local level, such as free or reduced fee lunch or financial aid. The local motor vehicle department, thanks to the USA PATRIOT Act, has the legal right to ask for Social Security numbers, too. In addition, when you complete a cash transaction totaling more than $10,000 you'll be required to provide your number so that transaction can be reported to the Internal Revenue Service, says ITRC's Foley.
Medical professionals have their own impetus, says the ITRC's Foley. "The reason a doctor or a dentist asks for your Social Security number is that, should you die while under his or her care, they are required to put your Social Security number on the death certificate," says Foley.
Even so, fulfilling non-credit-related requests -- even medical-related requests -- is purely optional, says L. Jean Camp, an associate professor at Indiana University and the author of "Economics of Identity Theft." "The problem is that you have the right to say that you're not going to give out your Social Security number, but a business owner has the right to say he's not going to do business with you," says Camp. "Most companies aren't being malicious. They're just being cautious by giving themselves a way to track you down if you don't pay a bill."
Gracefully saying 'No'
One of the best ways to get out of giving your Social Security number to someone is to simply overlook it on your paperwork, says Arata. You may get by without a confrontation. If you're questioned, however, ITRC's Foley suggests being proactive. "The most basic thing you can do is ask the person or organization why they need it. One of the most powerful things you can say is, 'Is there a law or requirement that I must provide it to you, and can you tell me what it is?' You can also ask the person requesting your Social what will happen if you don't disclose it," she says.
Often, as in the case of a school or a charitable organization, they simply want it to use your number as a unique identifier. In that case, says Javelin Strategy & Research's Van Dyke, you'll need to start negotiating again. "Say, 'In order for me to become your customer, I really need you to find an alternative recordkeeping method because I know giving out my Social Security number places me at great risk.' When you say it like that you may get better results," he says.
Even doctor or dentist offices should be willing to forgo your Social Security number -- especially if you have health insurance. And if they won't? Ask to give your information directly to the doctor and have him or her input it into the system for you, says Van Dyke. ITRC's Foley says most medical offices may also feel comfortable without it as long as they have an emergency contact on file -- someone who knows your Social Security number and could provide it in the event of death.
And what of the worst case scenario -- when you absolutely can't get out of it, but you still don't feel comfortable? You can always make up a number, says Camp, but if you do, make sure you write it down and don't inadvertently steal someone else's identity. "If you go this route as a last resort, make sure you put zeros in for the two middle numbers," she says. "There are no Social Security numbers that have double zeros in that section."
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Why make up a Social Security Number when the Social Security Administration clearly says No Social Security Number Needed!! How do I apply for a SocialMessage 1 of 3 , Mar 13, 2010View SourceWhy make up a Social Security Number when the Social Security Administration clearly says "No Social Security Number Needed!!"
"How do I apply for a Social Security number and card?
Unless you are a **NONCITIZEN** who wants to work in the United States, you probably do not need a Social Security number.
Generally, only **noncitizens** authorized to work in the United States by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) can get a Social Security number. Social Security numbers are used to report an individual's wages to the government and to determine a person's eligibility for Social Security benefits. You need a Social Security number to work, collect Social Security benefits and receive some other government services.
Lawfully admitted noncitizens can get many benefits and services without a Social Security number. You do not need a number to get a driver's license, register for school, obtain private health insurance, or to apply for school lunch programs or subsidized housing.
Some organizations use Social Security numbers to identify you in their records. Most, however, will identify you by some other means if you request it.
We cannot assign you a Social Security number solely so you can get a driver's license or a service that requires a credit check.
Although many companies, such as banks and credit companies, may ask for your Social Security number, you are generally not required to provide one if you don't have one." (emphasis mine)
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "dave" <dwissel@...> wrote:
> From: dave [mailto:dwissel@...]
> Bean counters at companies-i.e. who "demand" government forms-are empowered
> through propaganda to "do the work of government". These are some of the
> most ignorant people you will encounter. That is because their "truth" comes
> ONLY from someone-else's OPNION. Custom "rules" these people's lives and
> that custom comes from the media-which is in turn-fed by "the fed". ...
Yes.it is true that you do not need an SSN..absolutely. However bear this in mind: 1. Most employers/banks don t know this. 2. They are DIRECTED byMessage 1 of 3 , Mar 15, 2010View SourceYes.it is true that you do not need an SSN..absolutely. However bear this in mind:
1. Most employers/banks don't know this.
2. They are DIRECTED by the IRS "information officers" to make it their policy to only offer services or employment based on SSN. [I tried to get EEOC interested in several documented cases..not a chance!]
3. They don't care to know you don't have one.. and perfectly willing to let you go elsewhere.
I checked with 22 banks here and ALL parrot back the words of the IRS: "It is our POLICY that we need an SSN to open an account. You are free to go elsewhere. "
Employers state the same thing. "It is our policy that you have an SSN in order to work here."
Only BOA said they would open up an account w/o an SSN..but only if they were showed ID from another country..like Mexican ID for example.
Now if ANYONE knows of a bank that has a policy of NOT needing an SSN, let me know. I want to put it up on a website..like a whole list of banks.