93 what a great subject please if there is any one who has done this let me know to. I had struggles with this when I was heavily into witchcraft but I guessMessage 1 of 7 , Nov 24, 2010View Source93
what a great subject please if there is any one who has done this let me
know to. I had struggles with this when I was heavily into witchcraft but I
guess for me it was something that just flowed my kids expected a witchcraft
answer. With Thelma I am just getting into it and dont even know the
questions let alone the answers.
On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 10:05 AM, anon <contrite1@...> wrote:
> To any of you who are raising children, I would very much appreciate any
> thoughts and feelings you'd care to share regarding how you integrate
> Thelema in principle and practice with the responsibilities of raising
> Feel free to email me off-list if you prefer.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dear Anon the Contrite One, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. ... This comes up from time to time in various Thelemic forums I frequent. My takeMessage 2 of 7 , Nov 24, 2010View SourceDear Anon the Contrite One,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
> To any of you who are raising children, I would veryThis comes up from time to time in various Thelemic forums I frequent.
> much appreciate any thoughts and feelings you'd care
> to share regarding how you integrate Thelema in
> principle and practice with the responsibilities of
> raising children.
My take on it is that Thelema, while having some details that are
unique, is essentially the Law of Liberty with all the requisite
implicit elements such as Responsibility and so on.
I have taken chastisements from friends to not try to convert everyone
to Thelema in my exuberance for pursuit of Liberty, and thus I tone down
the manner in which I present the concept amongst adults; but I see it
as a solemn duty to ensure my daughter is raised with full access to the
principles of Thelema.
This would take too long to discuss thoroughly in such a forum as this,
but I generally adopt a "Go Ahead" attitude with things my daughter
wishes to try, with the commensurate "Safety First" filter applied, by
me if necessary (duty of the parent, having more experience in the world
than she), resulting in what I hope is a relatively well-balanced
approach to parenting when I've got the presence of mind to formulate my
actions and reactions to her interests, involvements, and shared
An example on a philosophical layer: She has been permitted to attend
Gnostic Mass celebrations so long as her activities there were
respectful; likewise, she has been denied access to that event when she
proved unable to contain herself, and later, was voluntarily permitted
with grace to decline on her own when it did not suit her to attend.
An example on a physical layer: I had an incident once where she was
playing on parking blocks in a parking lot, and I warned her of the
dangers of falling and such. She proceeded to play, and missed once,
falling to the pavement. I had been watching her closely, and I put my
hand where her head would have otherwise hit the ground. Thus, she
experienced the pain of the fall, and the lessons that would impart, but
her head was not damaged. Thus, she got the full experience, sans
It's a lot of work being a Thelemite, as I am learning yet again in my
own Life; it is even more work being a Thelemic parent, encouraging
Thelemic attitudes and behaviors while encouraging restraint and
enforcing safety parameters...but this is the single most useful thing I
can do for the Universe at this time, so I take my duties seriously.
Two cents, and all that rot.
Love is the law, love under will.
In practical terms: 1. Aleister Crowley is probably not the most reliable guide on child-rearing or educational development. He was never known as a goodMessage 3 of 7 , Nov 25, 2010View SourceIn practical terms: 1. Aleister Crowley is probably not the most reliable guide on child-rearing or educational development. He was never known as a good "father" figure, and the role models of his own family, which shaped his perceptions about the family unit (not to mention just the times he lived in), do not provide much of a reliable model for raising children in our own times. His experience in educational institutions were not what one would call the "best of times," and left him mildly traumatized (as can be evidenced by his piece, "A Boyhood in Hell," his comments regarding his family life/educational upbringing in "The Confessions," his essays in "Magick Without Tears": esp. "Family: Public Enemy No. 1," and "Mother Love," etc.. All that said, there is an essay on "Education," in "Magick Without Tears" that some might find inspiring; though I'd say there is nothing groundbreaking in it that hasn't been said elsewhere, more completely.
2. The original Rabelais model of Thelema offers more of a guide since it was generally aimed at an educational curriculum. It has become a portion of or influence of the basis for numerous existing educational models; i.e. the method pioneered by Dr.Montessori or A.S. Neill's Summerhill school. The listing on "Education" in the Rabelais Encyclopedia (p.63-64) Elizabeth A. Chesney is also of some help.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 5:05 PM
Subject: [t93] Thelema and Parenthood
To any of you who are raising children, I would very much appreciate any thoughts and feelings you'd care to share regarding how you integrate Thelema in principle and practice with the responsibilities of raising children.
Feel free to email me off-list if you prefer.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The AMORC Rosicrusion Order has a downloadable series for non-members( I think), called Child Culture Series, in 3 volumes, each lesson to be read once a week.Message 4 of 7 , Nov 28, 2010View SourceThe AMORC Rosicrusion Order has a downloadable series for non-members( I think), called Child Culture Series, in 3 volumes, each lesson to be read once a week. If you are not familiar with the Ancient and Mystical Order of the Rosae Crucis(AMORC), know that many alchemists, mages, and members of the hermetic order of the Golden Dawn, have been Rosicrucians as well. It is a secret society, like the OTO, which extends invitations to the public for membership. The series is specifically for raising children from in the womb onward. Hope this helps, do a search for AMORC, and you will find the sight, look for manuals for the general public.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 20, 2010, at 3:05 PM, "anon" <contrite1@...> wrote:
> To any of you who are raising children, I would very much appreciate any thoughts and feelings you'd care to share regarding how you integrate Thelema in principle and practice with the responsibilities of raising children.
> Feel free to email me off-list if you prefer.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks to all who offered the insightful responses to my question -- it seems like one which is not all that uncommon. Not surprising, considering thatMessage 5 of 7 , Nov 29, 2010View SourceThanks to all who offered the insightful responses to my question -- it seems like one which is not all that uncommon. Not surprising, considering that parenthood is not all that uncommon!
I think it should go without saying that AC was far from an example of a good parent, but let us not criticize the chef's dish without tasting it, simply because we don't like the chef! I've personally never thought for a moment that I should emulate AC in terms of his personal life choices -- he was an individual star with his own path. Yet, I trust that we all can learn from the mistakes of those who have gone before us!
I must say, as I read each response on this list and others, I see that the ways in which many Thelemite parents are putting Thelemic ideas into practice "in the field" with their own children are conducive to producing psychologically-healthy, independent individuals who trust and respect themselves. Ideologically, "Love under will" really covers quite alot of ground.
My own challenges are largely centered around the practical aspects of integrating magickal training and ritual into the day-to-day duties of parenthood. Things like waiting until the children are in bed to perform rituals, deciding whether to attend group rituals or do something else with the children, that sort of thing.
Another challenge is deciding how much to share with them about my own beliefs and practices. The dilemma of whether or not to redecorate one's house for the sake of his child's social life, is one I can identify with -- the trappings of ceremonical magick are a far cry from the "accepted" tokens of the crucifix and picture of Jesus on the wall. My personal opinion is that growing up is difficult enough for children, and I want to avoid making my own children suffer for decisions they had no part in making -- such as my choices regarding if/what/how/when/where to worship.
My oldest son, for instance, requests to attend Christian Sunday school. I take him, but do not attend the service. When he asks why I don't attend the service, I simply say that everyone must decide on their own if/what/how/when/where to worship, and I made my decision. As my children grow older, they may ask me more about what I'm into and I won't hestitate to explain to them how I came to my own decisions.
... Just for the sake of clarification: There is much that I do like about Crowley s writings, and if I were to seek advice on mountain climbing, for instance,Message 6 of 7 , Dec 1 12:09 AMView SourceHi:
>I think it should go without saying that AC was far from an example of aJust for the sake of clarification: There is much that I do like about
>good parent, but let us not criticize the chef's dish without tasting it,
>simply because we >don't like the chef! I've personally never thought for a
>moment that I should emulate AC in terms of his personal life choices -- he
>was an individual star with his >own path. Yet, I trust that we all can
>learn from the mistakes of those who have gone before us!
Crowley's writings, and if I were to seek advice on mountain climbing, for
instance, I would say that he would be someone who merits paying attention
to. I also have learned much from his writings regarding religious
behaviors, symbolism and so on. ...Not to mention I find the chronicles of
his time and the world which he live in to be both entertaining and
informative. To say that I wouldn't place much stock in his child rearing
advice, or familial relations is simply suggesting that these aren't areas
where his experiences demonstrate any degree of real, working knowledge that
I would find applicable in my own situation. He had some theories, but
that's all they were and any parent knows that theories rarely ever rise to
the challenges of parenthood. I also doubt I would seek his advice on
playing the guitar...even if he did once "manage" a band. That shouldn't be
construed, though, as suggesting that I don't like the chef nor does it
profess a lack of familiarity with what he did have to say on the subject
...which is to say that I have sampled the dish and, that said, prefer to
cook my own meals ...no offense intended. I certainly do not desire to
express any notion that I think Crowley's life was more extraordinarily
riddled with mistakes or missteps than anyone else's; much less my own. I
have stated previously ...I believe on this forum (or that other one on the
other side of the tracks)... that those who dismiss him as merely some old
charlatan who died a lonely, broken, dried-up heroin junkie deduct much in
creating his image in the likeness of their own inscrutable expectations;
including that the "heroin addict" outlived the natural life-expectancy of
his generation, that one of his final works, the previously mentioned,
"Magick Without Tears" is all-in-all, one of the most coherent and humorous
works that he ever put out (so much for being 'dried up'), that being
without money was actually in compliance with his oaths especially when it
was uncomfortable or inconvenient, that he didn't die alone but, in any
event, such would hardly be vexing for one calling themselves the very
Spirit of Solitude, and so on. In fact, it seems incongruous that someone
who adopted mottos such as, 'I will endure to the end,' and "The Phoenix"
should have died in the manner and surrounded by the soft creature comforts
of the "sitting room culture" ...and to his credit, Aliester Crowley didn't.
>My oldest son, for instance, requests to attend Christian Sunday school. Itake him, but do not attend the service. When he asks why I don't attend the
service, I >simply say that everyone must decide on their own
if/what/how/when/where to worship, and I made my decision. As my children
grow older, they may ask me >more about what I'm into and I won't hesitate
to explain to them how I came to my own decisions.
That seems to me a loving and honest thing to do for your son. Since the
creed is, "Do what thou wilt" and not "Do as I say," what you write suggests
a person doing what a good parent would do by letting your son discover the
world for himself and create his own unique associations with it. I do the
same for all of my children and I couldn't be happier with the results. All
of my children are all A's, not on drugs, are enthusiastic about life and
its possibilities, and this has been of their own doing, not because I have
told them that they have to make A's and have to stay off drugs. They know
what drugs do, they know what poverty is, they know that the Abyss is
bottomless. We have been honest in recounting our own life experiences as
the situation directs. I have a daughter that leans toward Buddhism, I have
a teenaged son that is contemplating the Transcendentalism of Emerson and
Thoreau, and who loves mathematics and the general field of mythology in
much the same way Joseph Campbell did; and I have my youngest son who likes
to go to church and wonders why the rest of us don't buy into that
particular B.S. (Belief System) and worries about our salvation. The way I
see it is he is just showing love in a way that resonates with him, right
now. He is young and I haven't forgotten some of the things I used to think
that I thought I believed. I don't belittle him or discourage him. I feel
that as he grows older he'll probably figure out that it is most unlikely
that, once upon a time, an old man literally built a boat with no rudder and
was able to put two of every kind of animal on earth aboard and survive that
way for 40 days and nights, and that it is most dubious that once upon a
time a man was born among the Jews from some way that isn't sexual or even
asexual reproduction, died and then came back to life to fly up into the
clouds to wait on a day we could join him for harps and halos. It simply
isn't the appropriate time, in my view, to inform him of the abominations
that the Nicene Council performed on the memory of a persecuted Rabbi. He
should at least be disillusioned about Santa, first. When he gets around to
asking "why," I'll accept his invitation to answer. My personal belief is
that the most thelemic thing one can do for another in their temporary
charge is to let them contemplate the world in their own way ...but with the
affirming realization that we're on the same ride and there will come a day
that I may find myself in their temporary charge and my body and possessions
committed to them for disposal.
"Reality" is too massive for anyone to claim a better purchase on it than
any other. They can make the claim, but I doubt I will believe them. One of
the problems with the perspective inculcated in the overall modern Western
paradigm is that it is, by and large, a massively fragmented view of reality
that is founded on "either/or" certitudes that really aren't so certain.
...As a final, if seemingly unrelated*, thought, I have been discovering why
I personally don't prefer the whole "Frater" "Soror" thing. I prefer
Brother and Sister. These seem to me to suggest more of a commitment, common
interest, and immediate identification whereas the former implies the
association is largely formal, artificial and seems somewhat aloof.
* Yes, it is a very bad pun.