93, I m not going to make a specific reply here because I think the thread becomes mired in digression. I want to restart from what I beleive are some commonMessage 1 of 12 , Jan 7, 2008View Source93,
I'm not going to make a specific reply here because I
think the thread becomes mired in digression. I want
to restart from what I beleive are some common
perceptions of the Liber AL puzzles between folks who
are in the various camps of solutions and even those
that are shared by general skeptics across the board.
Let's start with the camp I'm most familiar with:
NAEQ. This term was first coined by Allen Greenfield,
and hardly anyone else who practices this system
refers to it by this name. It has passed into regular
use by a few mainly because of oher authors (De Campo,
Crow) who have published using this term, also,
relentless posters like myself have appropriated it as
nomenclature. However no person who is an adherent of
'NAEQ' has ever formally declared themself the
prophetic heir of Crowley or the sole receiver of the
'keys to AL', not even Jim Lees, who among other
things seem to claim that those only those who hail
from the British Isles will get the 'true message' of
My own participation in these concurrent efforts have
been extensive, yet, I've continued to attempt to
maintain an objective mind relating to the data i
present, regarding these, I have cited a great deal of
evidence to the effect that these are the results of
suprarational phenomena such as synchronicity, and in
the substance of this rhetoric, strived to deflate the
sensibility that any person who solved the 'keys of
AL' shouldbe regarded as anything more than a
extremely clever person, and not be rendered the
mantle of the godhood and worship. Nor have we
presented ourselves as the sole possessors of these
solutions, and not anywhere have I requested
discipleship or made any kind of 'recruitment drive'.
Yet, despite all these best intentions sometimes I
have gone over the line into the realm of evangelism,
when I have done this I have been rebuked and
corrected sharply by friend and foe alike. The latest
refutes of some of data that has been put forth by
erudite adherents of a 'rival system' of a solution to
AL, have given me enough pause to begin some systemic
As far as I can tell, the ALW solutions to Liber AL
and Liber Trigrammaton, and concurrently, RLG's
'Trigrammaton English Qaballah', seem to be the most
articulated and rationally complex systemic solutions
to AL. Each are different and arrive at two seperate
pictures of AL:
1. TEQ seems to offer a 'wholistic numerical solution'
to the entire text of AL, the deep structure of this
formula as Leo has put it forth, is remarkably
self-contained and mathematically sound. LEo has
demonstrated without fault that his system can relate
numerically to many key phrases of AL and extrapolate
these various number keys. This wholistic formula can
reduce the entire text of AL of a series of digits.
This is remarkable, He has also done this not with a
cipher which he himself devised or discovered, but one
purportedly used by Crowley himself. These are
profound synchronistic elements which cannot be
dismissed offhandedly and are worthy of investigation
and Leo is to be commended for his years of dedication
and replete study and for his bloody excellent math
2. NAEQ: Although it lacks the same 'wholistic'
application to the entire text of AL. ALW does unveil
an astrological mystery in the cryptologic sub-text of
AL, namely, the Sun-Venus-Pentagram mystery and its
sex magick application. Study of ALW in tandem with
sex magick timed with the Sun Venus conjunctions and
its related conjunctions, unveils an intitiatory
mystery which seems to be peculiar or endemic to AL
via a series of 'little formula' contaned within the
gematria of AL and ALW.
These extremely powerful 'rites of ordeals' which are
kicked off by timed rites and ALW qualify it as
applied magick, thus putting it on a par with more
classical theurgic systems. I'm certian that Leo has
these things worked out for TEQ as well, but I'm not
qualified to speak in that area.
These two ciphers seem to relate somewhat on a
numerical level in many signicficant ways, it would
take too long to preface the symmetry between these
two systems, but the most profound solution is in the
scripture item which is the crux of the argument at
hand: AL Chap II. v.76.
Each of these ciphers when compared to the letters of
this 'curious string' arrive at the same numeric
result: 351. The results of 351 arre immense with
gematria and of course 1-26=351 arguably making it the
'mystic number' of the English ALphabet' .This result
might defy immense probabalistic odds, especially
since TEQ uses zero as a variable. More indepth study
of this kind I believe is vital, synthesis and
herterodoxy is vital to evolution and social
development in my humble opinion.
So, allow my ecclesiastical rant for a moment: Each of
these ciphers are a direct fulfillment of the
prophecies in AL. One is a fulfillment for Crowley
while he lived, and another was a proof for the
adherents of Thelema in the modern age. The TEQ cipher
relates to the trigrams of Liber 27, however the ALW
cipher relates to the grid page and the sex
magick/star-mystery of Liber AL. Adherents of each can
attain profound initatory results. As to the
personalities who represent the 'discoverers' of these
formulae, any of these who require singular devotion
and the need to control people's will should be
On another spin, my clearing tech education leads me
to a few preliminary conclusions: In ScN one uses the
term 'implant' in a quite liberal manner, it can in
this case refer to a thing etheric, that might be
embedded in a thing like a TV program, a piece of
music, or a body of text. I've covered the concept of
the 'lethal text' in the past, and I encourage others
to research into the same, and then re-examine Liber
AL in general. Anyway, this implant thing, it can be
regarded as having an 'auto-hypnotic effect' which is
so powerful that it involves the reader INTO the drama
of the text itself where one volunteers, even
supplicates oneself, to the goals of the text and tus
the goals of the implant. Each successful implantee
will then cough up results of varying types, the
complexity of which will depend on the relative
intellect and cognitive ability of each of the
implanted. This would explain how a person of high
mathematical cognition and a good grounding in
epistemology and cosmology could offer a highly
articulated solution to a thing like Liber AL. A
systemic solution which might even be of value to
others for initiatory purposes. It seems to me that
the body of 'magickal' or occult literature grows and
evolves based upon the efforts of such individuals.
Conversely, this explanation would cover why many of
the very duller implantees of ALthink oftimes
regurgitate contrived, simplified and convoluted
solutions to AL as well, all the while crying "I'm the
one!". "Im the one!" :-D
Also, I have to conclude that to dismiss Crowley with
a sweep of the arm then one must further indict ALL
systems of theurgy and relgion as a whole, seeing as
how ALL of these systems no matter how complexly
contrived are the result of and are artifacts of the
human mind. To think otherwise, truly IS a religion,
and I'd like to know what that relgion is, is it
Uber-Greekism?, is it Meta-Judaism, or moreover is
it...Super-Christianity...!? HA!...Gawd I hope it it
isnt Super-Christianity, I'd certianly prefer
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... Thelema Tom, I have a copy of Equinox VII volume I and it has the Yaweh is Egyptian for Moon in it. I belive it was written by D. Bersson, one of Motta sMessage 2 of 12 , Jan 7, 2008View Source
> Also, I have to conclude that to dismiss Crowley withThelema Tom,
> a sweep of the arm then one must further indict ALL
> systems of theurgy and relgion as a whole, seeing as
> how ALL of these systems no matter how complexly
> contrived are the result of and are artifacts of the
> human mind. To think otherwise, truly IS a religion,
> and I'd like to know what that relgion is, is it
> Uber-Greekism?, is it Meta-Judaism, or moreover is
> it...Super-Christianity...!? HA!...Gawd I hope it it
> isnt Super-Christianity, I'd certianly prefer
I have a copy of Equinox VII volume I and it has the "Yaweh is
Egyptian for Moon" in it. I belive it was written by D. Bersson, one
of Motta's students.
I vote for "The First Church of Thelemic Mormon Scientology"
... Well you know...... They say that Mormonism was founded by a scryer, that Joeseph Smith was employed in this capacity by his father, who was a ceremonialMessage 3 of 12 , Jan 8, 2008View Source
>>Well you know...... They say that Mormonism was founded by a scryer,
> Thelema Tom,
> I have a copy of Equinox VII volume I and it has the "Yaweh is
> Egyptian for Moon" in it. I belive it was written by D. Bersson, one
> of Motta's students.
> I vote for "The First Church of Thelemic Mormon Scientology"
that Joeseph Smith was employed in this capacity by his father, who
was a ceremonial magician in upstate New York, and that the formation
of Mormonism was influenced by a Jewish convert who brought knowledge
of the Zohar to Nauvoo Illinois. And they're masonic, kind of.
Scientology......L. Ron Hubbard, Jack Parsons, "Clear" meaning being
able to find your true will, kind of, or at least self determine your
life to a great degree. So maybe Thelemic Mormon Scientology has a
Thelema Adamanteus, Your work is a valid branch of qabalistic research and I ve enjoyed your presentation of it. Danish is a beautiful language, but I m justMessage 4 of 12 , Jan 8, 2008View SourceThelema Adamanteus,
Your work is a valid branch of qabalistic research and I've enjoyed
your presentation of it. Danish is a beautiful language, but I'm just
wondering if you were put to this task by suggestions your received
from "Another Life". It seems very familiar to me somehow.
93!~ ... And I m only curious as to _which_ (or what?) Christians you might have found these particular presuppositions to be attributed? Do you have aMessage 5 of 12 , Jan 8, 2008View Source93!~
> I first encountered prooftext arguments amongstAnd I'm only curious as to _which_ (or what?) Christians you might
> the Christians, but i'm sure it has gone on for
> centuries. the presuppositions involved seem to
> include the following (add to them if you care!)
> with my !comments precede by exclamation points:
have found these particular presuppositions to be attributed? Do you
have a reference for such preconditions of prooftext arguments?
I've left them here for as a reminder since these look more like your
dry humor at work rather than any actual recollection of experience.
And most especially since I'm not really familiar with too many
Christian sects that would put much stock in such things. Though I'm
certainly willing to learn where I've overlooked something.
> * -- that the scripture of focus is relevant inPax,
> content, timing, and/or significance.
> * -- that the "puzzle" or "problem" inherent to
> the scripture requires a solution and has
> only one such solution arriving from a 'genius'.
> * -- that there is status to be gained or
> demonstrated in 'solving' the problem so
> identified and that others should be
> compelled to pay tribute/attention to
> the puzzle solver, who usually gleans
> titles and inferred social position from
> the activity of wresting/solving.
50080110 xi! 333 out of context: # I first encountered prooftext arguments amongst # the Christians, but i m sure it has gone on for # centuries. theMessage 6 of 12 , Jan 10, 2008View Source50080110 xi!
333 out of context:
#> I first encountered prooftext arguments amongst
#> the Christians, but i'm sure it has gone on for
#> centuries. the presuppositions involved seem to
#> include the following (add to them if you care!)
#> with my !comments precede by exclamation points:
# And I'm only curious as to _which_ (or what?)
# Christians you might have found these particular
# presuppositions to be attributed?
I'm not sure they're always clearly identified.
some are more interested in evangelizing (clue)
than others, of course. I have found a strong
interest in all of the below in the Thelemic
religious community, and i suppose that it is
a reflection off of post-Christian interests
of a particular time period or cult.
# Do you have a reference for such preconditions
# of prooftext arguments?
these are my observations. no reference needed.
they are intended to be anecdotal and primarily
a comment on Thelemic religious interests, but
their intersection with conventional religious
strains seems to me well-founded in most cases.
# I've left them here for as a reminder since
# these look more like your dry humor at work
only barely. my observation as regards Thelema
with association to these is in earnest. the
whole "accepting Liber Al" issue has been very
amusing to me, if sadly not so amusing to its
exponents in my presence. "Do you accept Liber
Al?" "Do you believe in the Bible?" "Do you
know that the Qur'an is 100% the message
of Allah!" "The Tanakh is too complex and full
of meaning not to have been created by G-d!".
# rather than any actual recollection of experience.
they're definitely recollection of inference in
interaction with ardent zealots of a variety of
types, from Hindus to Buddhists to Muslims to
Christians to Thelemites. I have been quite
interested in them all and in small measure
sought to engage them as an ordeal and as a
means of learning about their ideologies. my
sub-focus in college was religions after global
(not just European) philosophy (religion and
philosophy often actually do overlap in at
least theology and metaphysics, not always
to be found in undergrad courses).
# And most especially since I'm not really
# familiar with too many Christian sects
# that would put much stock in such things....
hm, i'll try to address this here with
reference to Thelemite interests in same.
please be sure to understand that this is
not a comment on *all Thelemites* or even
all Thelemic religious, but common enough
in my experience to make mention.
# > * -- that the scripture of focus is relevant in
# > content, timing, and/or significance.
this is so obvious i don't feel that there is a
need to comment on it. if you need elaboration
on it, please let me know. the label of "Religions
of the Book" ought to stand as partial testimony.
# > * -- that the "puzzle" or "problem" inherent
# > to the scripture requires a solution and has
# > only one such solution arriving from a 'genius'.
there's a bunch of these. there's the whole 'secret
code inherent to the scripture' so popular since the
1970s, from inherited qabalistic "too complex to have
been inserted by the prophets" formal (Stan Tennan)
and puzzlerrific acrostics, to the discovered "Bible
Code(s?)" to the "19 Code" in the Qur'an, this seems
to be a renovation of archaism and patriarchal
staleness to preserve obsessive focus.
a bunch of this was built into the New Testament,
also, what with the "completion" of the "Old" by
backwards-engineering the lot and then later re-
folklorizing the whole in new artsy language as
through Milton, or via Dante, or any number of
exceedingly popular fabulosities ignoring the
fact that no Devil exists in the Tanakh, and
providing for the Jesus character a lasting
pedigree not only patri-/matri-archal solidity,
but primarily of prophetic fulfillment (amazingly!
the Jesus character was written so as to have
exceeded all the expectations of the Messiah!
those pesky self-contradictions are just little
puzzles for us to solve because the text is
*inerrant and from the God!*), etc. this is
hyped in more recent years to include all manner
of outrAAAAgeous Frenchie Marivingian or Da
Vincian codification -- Jesus was an alien, Jim!
# > * -- that there is status to be gained or
# > demonstrated in 'solving' the problem so
# > identified and that others should be
# > compelled to pay tribute/attention to
# > the puzzle solver, who usually gleans
# > titles and inferred social position from
# > the activity of [wrestling]/solving.
the one who unearths (fashions) the solution is
said to be 'in the know' and rivals prophets in
most of the cults that have them, sometimes even
maintained as reincarnations of the old heros.
mass media enterprises have been staged --
oh haven't there been half a dozen or more of
these media blitzes over the course of my
lifetime (some 40+ years), from "gods from
outer space Annunaki" to the Shroud of Turin
to the codes and Hebrew shape puzzles?
it should come as no surprise, really, that a
fascination should resurface over and over from
renewed perspectives on conventional scripture
while as time wears on we have better and better
scholarship on "lost gospels" and expunged or
denounced "nonauthorized" alternatives as have
been surfacing from buried caches (Nag Hammadi,
Qumran, Coptics, Greek Papyri, etc., etc.), or
'real analyses' of how the scriptures were
developed and how folkloric they really are.
distracting the popular mind, in the case of
longstanding religious traditions, from coming
to seriously examine the foundation for their
scripture, is becoming an industry comparable
in scope to mass-producing the standard for
consumption and obsession. now that the Roman
Catholics can read their Bible and listen in
English to their Masses, the thin slip of the
Jesus waif is somewhat gingerly revealed.
you seem to have (very conveniently?) left out
another important commonality of them -- the
obscuration of the event or activity of the
writing of them. in the case of Christians the
anonymity of the Synoptics and Johanine seems
to escape the conventional religious adherent,
as does the wide array of comparable texts.
in the case of Thelema this surrounds the
"receipt" of the text (now an unsupportable
tale has been given impetus about Rose
reciting the whole!) and how (and by whom
and why) it was *edited* (naughty naughty!
do you know there are cults that actually
forbid the editing of this scripture "one
jot or tittle"?! the fact that Thelemites
after Crowley have paid some attention to
the original document becomes AMUSING! how
many edits should the sacred document come
to withstand? from whose pen? why were the
individuals so engaged of sufficient sacred
consciousness after receipt to know how it
the whole process from channelling to kiblah
is even tracked in liber numbers. helpful in
displaying for all of us to see a transparent
fashioning for the cult. this is in part why
i wonder whether old Uncle Al had the last
laugh in providing for the cults both a core
reprobate to whitewash and a transparent
fraud to escalate to the status of glory
before the watchful eyes of corrupt priests.