93! I agree that concerning the whole world there has not been much progression since the Middle Ages, but somehow I can t believe that Aleister CrowleyMessage 1 of 11 , May 14, 2002View Source93!
I agree that concerning the whole world there has not been much progression since the Middle Ages, but somehow I can't believe that Aleister Crowley himself was much concerned with the fate of the entire world, nor would he have understood his magical system as something that should be used to derive global-politic postulates from.
What do the others think?
Regarding the Euro-American World, which I meant when I wrote the message:
> On a purely subjective note, it often seems to me that today's youngI agree. It makes living for them much easier and emotionally less demanding. While I'm still part of the young generation with 21, I nowadays see youngsters at the age of 14 and less who are masking their natural social insecurity with an air of pseudo-adulthood in adopting the unreflected views of the older generation, thus building a bridge to pass their puberty safely with the disadvantage of self-stagnation and numb egotism.
> people are becoming increasingly conformist, especially in comparison to
> the great social upheavals of the 1960's and 1970's -- or even, for that
> matter, much of the 1980's.
Worse, they are often under the impression
> that the relative license afforded in terms of fashion and pop-cultureIn Germany where I live there is scarcely any patriotism other than a small group of stupid extremists that everybody hates, so I have no experience with that phenomenon in particular.
> amounts to something more meaningful than sales figures for large
> corporations. The amount of patriotism among young people, even before
> September 11, is genuinely appalling. One would have hoped that a wider
> understanding of primate pack psychology would have buried that particular
> mental illness forever.
> As far as enemies are concerned, I have never found it necessary toProbably it's different with the U.S., but here in Germany I have all the possibilities to live the way I want. Political and religious opponents do exist, but they are far too weak to concern me. You are even free to ignore the law to some extent if you dont do it publicly.
> imagine them. The presence of powerful political and religious factions
> devoted to ensuring conformity and quashing independent thought and
> behavior is not open to serious debate and is ignored only at one's peril.
Still, it depends what level of freedom you demand. But then you are free to move where there's less opposition, and with clever methodes you can even change a conservative environment - with the proper amount of love spent in certain affairs.
... Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Hmm, Crowley was deeply concerned with revolutionizing society along Thelemic lines and had some fairlyMessage 1 of 11 , May 14, 2002View SourceOn Tue, 14 May 2002, battleghoule wrote:
> I agree that concerning the whole world there has not been muchDo what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
> progression since the Middle Ages, but somehow I can't believe that
> Aleister Crowley himself was much concerned with the fate of the entire
> world, nor would he have understood his magical system as something that
> should be used to derive global-politic postulates from.
> What do the others think?
Hmm, Crowley was deeply concerned with revolutionizing society along
Thelemic lines and had some fairly well-developed ideas about his version
of the New World Order. (That it involved a neo-feudal society organized
around a Pharaonic priest-king is silly, but beside the point, which is
that he *did* see geopolitical applications of Thelema.) He also
expressed the opinion that the opening section of the third chapter of
Liber AL described an actual war for Thelemic world domination. When it
was not an exercise in pure self-indulgence, his Abbey of Thelema was
intended to be a model community for Thelemites.
> In Germany where I live there is scarcely any patriotism other than aAh yes, of course. It is, unfortunately a problem here in the US.
> small group of stupid extremists that everybody hates, so I have no
> experience with that phenomenon in particular.
> Probably it's different with the U.S., but here in Germany I have all theIronically, it was once my intention to settle either in Bayern or
> possibilities to live the way I want. Political and religious opponents
> do exist, but they are far too weak to concern me. You are even free to
> ignore the law to some extent if you dont do it publicly.
> Still, it depends what level of freedom you demand. But then you are free
> to move where there's less opposition, and with clever methodes you can
> even change a conservative environment - with the proper amount of love
> spent in certain affairs.
Nordrhein-Westfalen -- fifteen years ago when I still had a reasonable
command of the language -- precisely to seek personal freedom. I
ultimately decided that would be both self-indulgent and cowardly, and
that there was more potential for societal improvement working in my
native American South.
Love is the law, love under will.
50020606 VII OM! Happy Satanmas! ... Agape ... yes. the course of orienting to the true will and adhering to one s orbit to accomplish the Great Work inMessage 1 of 11 , Jun 6, 2002View Source50020606 VII OM! Happy Satanmas!
> From: "Joseph Thiebes" <thiebes@...>Agape
> > > > there are no orders of Thelemites. from what I can see orders fit333:
> > > > themselves with cloaks of Thelema for the purposes of networking
> > > > and worse, but in fact no organization, especially no *orders*
> > > > are Thelemic or composed of Thelemites. insufficient membership
> > > > restriction and attention to discernment of volitional power and
> > > > composure is brought to the task of determining who remains a part.
> > > > most who identify with the term 'Thelemite' are undeserving.
> > ... I'd say you're MORE likely to find strong-willed individualsyes. the course of orienting to the true will and adhering to one's
> > as well as people with problems surrounding the will in Thelemite-
> > identified groups. it was the power and composure that were my
> > foci, not the enthusiasm (which I have seen in many modern
> > mystico-religious forms -- beautiful!)
> I guess I don't know what your criteria are for considering one a
> Thelemite. Can you elaborate on that?
orbit to accomplish the Great Work in association and consummation
of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel is
difficult enough to identify from within, let alone to confirm or
acknowledge as a third party. evidence for this condition may be
found through exposure to the operating standards and modus operandi
of the individual in question. observation of routine daily
attitude and composure, it is possible to project through these in
inference to a consideration of placement with respect to true will.
my criteria, therefore, for usage of the term 'Thelemite' is wholly
subjective and admiring, in part a question of the enthusiasm I can
sense in their actions and deliberate operations.
> Having difficulty parsing this... :/so was I! sections deleted unintentionally, abandoned as lost.
> > don'tconsistent deliberate actions with insight into the mechanisms truly
> > indicate that Thelemites in name are more or less masters of will
> > than any number of other religiomagical cults. I don't see evidence
> > of unusual variation, aside, possibly, from a gravitation toward the
> > EXERCIZE of will (not always to the betterment of those involved).
> What kind of criteria do you look for to determine what is more or less
> masterful of will?
involved in bringing them to fruition. to have tried is the measure
of achievement (see PBRandolph), therefore a string of projects,
resolved to success or failure in some conventional sense, regarded
all as successes in a rational sense by the doer for the experiences
of their attempt, interspersed with periods of repose and regrouping.
in short, one of the first criteria would be activity. the second
would be correlation between what is considered and known about the
actions taken by the individual in question. the Thelemite is not
merely taken for a ride. she does at least part of the driving.
> How much variation is unusual?a disproportionate number of those identifying as Thelemites would
seem a pertinent unusual variation. I haven't noticed this in any
significant preponderance. it seems more likely to me that it is
the *ideal* to which the structures of these symbolic organizations
point, while the actual Thelemites are those exercizing will in the
world to fabricating and advantageous ends.