Sent this just to Eddy, meant to send it to all. So here. Sounds like an unfortunate run-in. Best to be as polite as possible with people in uniforms, asMessage 1 of 4 , Sep 25, 2006View SourceSent this just to Eddy, meant to send it to all. So here.
Sounds like an unfortunate run-in. Best to be as polite as possible
with people in uniforms, as they can and will make life miserable
for you--and us--if sufficiently motivated.
If windsurfing has been specifically banned, it's a change
in policy, as we have been doing that on Lake Lowell for many years
without any such reports being made. Kitesurfing is a new story,
and there HAVE been incidents and rumors elsewhere...
See http://www.kitemare.com/Save%20our%20Sport!.htm for example.
> So anyway after a brief argument with this "JERK" we got hisHe's right about the classification, sailboards and kiteboards are
> Brochure and it clearly states that "Between April 15 and Sept 30,
> motorized, sail-powered, and human-powered crafts may be used."
> So we say that windsurfing and kitesurfing are allowed because we
> are sail/human-powered crafts. He say that we are not and if we
> were we need to be registered boats...
NOT watercraft, and so do not need to be licensed as such. They've
been treated as "water toys." (Early on, there were attempts to get
sailboards classified as boats, but folks worked against them,
appropriately enough, IMHO.)
Lake Lowell rangers have at times insisted upon PFDs, by the way,
which I suppose you could argue against since you're not in a
watercraft... but if you piss these people off by pettifogging,
they'll get even, I'm sure.
> After further arguing, basically this guy says he was relayingCalling him names may or may not be justified, but it's not going to
> what his boss told him but he was still a "JERK". I know it does
> not solve anything to think of him as a "Jerk", but I think all
> involved at this moment would think that calling him simply a
> "jerk" is far to kind.
make your or our recreation better.
Did you get his name? His position? His boss's name? I'd like to
know exactly what his organization and its jurisdiction is, and
calmly work to get a positive resolution.
Tom von Alten http://fortboise.org/
That sucks....... ... --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ ... -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- ...Message 1 of 4 , Sep 25, 2006View SourceThat sucks.......
--- "Gear Daddy, LLC" <geardaddy@...> wrote:
> Ok here is the story:--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> Jason, Eddy, Brad (aka Kiter Kid) out kiting from
> 4-6pm and then ending our
> session to new guy Steve Baker (aka The
> Vet(erinarian)" Steve shows up and
> is bringing his stuff down to water. I finish
> packing my stuff and head to
> truck. As I'm walking up to truck the Fed park and
> Fisheries COP shows up.
> He asks me if I'm going out and I said "No I'm done
> (all excited/stoked from
> great time), but Steve is going out." And tells me
> that "No he is not and
> that is not allowed here! If he goes out I will fine
> him $175.00". I said
> "What is not allowed?" His response "That!" as he
> points towards my Gear. I
> said "You don't even know what this is?" He Said
> "Kiting and Windsurfing is
> not permitted on Lake Lowell and that it is clearly
> stated in our brochure
> that windsurfing are not allowed!"
> So anyway after a brief argument with this "JERK" we
> got his Brochure and it
> clearly states that "Between April 15 and Sept 30,
> motorized, sail-powered,
> and human-powered crafts may be used." So we say
> that windsurfing and
> kitesurfing are allowed because we are
> sail/human-powered crafts. He say
> that we are not and if we were we need to be
> registered boats...
> After further arguing, basically this guy says he
> was relaying what his boss
> told him but he was still a "JERK". I know it does
> not solve anything to
> think of him as a "Jerk", but I think all involved
> at this moment would
> think that calling him simply a "jerk" is far to
> Anyway Brad has chosen to submit a letter to Parks
> and Recreation. I asked
> him to submit it to our groups before going any
> further with it. Brad (Kiter
> Kid) 14 years of age has put together a nice little
> debate style formatted
> letter that I hope he will submit soon.
> I would appreciate support from all on resolving
> this issue and Getting Lake
> Lowell opened to all windsurfers and kitesurfers.
> If anyone has good
> contacts that could solve this quickly please jump
> on them.
> Eddy Petranek
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BoiseSailors@...
> On Behalf Of Steve Linane
> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:50 AM
> To: Boise Sailors Association
> Subject: [BSA] Lake Lowell Fri.
> I would like to hear the hole story about the run in
> with the lake cop , I
> was told he said its against the law to wind surf or
> kite surf at l. l. and
> he threaten to give a ticket worth $175,00 We need a
> letter writing campaign
> and lets call Dear Flat R.S. 467 9278 and get to the
> bottom of this .
> Maybe solicit help from Mike Fergson .or anyone that
> mite know these
> This message is via your subscription to the Google-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> Groups "Boise Sailors
> Association" group.
> To post: BoiseSailors@...
> To unsubscribe:
> Group stuff:
> Sailing stuff: http://fortboise.org/windsurfing/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Steve Baker sent me his account of the incident at the Lake last week, and gave me permission to forward it to these groups. It seems that from the refugeMessage 1 of 4 , Sep 27, 2006View SourceSteve Baker sent me his account of the incident at the Lake last
week, and gave me permission to forward it to these groups. It seems
that from the refuge manager's point of view, kitesailing, at least,
IS INDEED BANNED. (Perhaps if people hadn't tried to tow
parasailors behind motorboats, they wouldn't have had a knee-jerk
reaction to the concept? Who knows.)
Windsurfing MAY BE banned ("no permission is granted"), but is at
least in limbo, along with motor toys. I have no idea how ripe or
valid any of the cited "lawsuits from both sides" might be.
I'm open to suggestion for the best way to coordinate a response
that produces the result we want -- lake access for our
environmentally friendly, low-impact sports.
Tom von Alten http://fortboise.org
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:26 AM
> Subject: Sailing report
> Steve Baker, sbakerdvm@..., and I read your letter on the
> snowkite group site. I'm unable to get on that group so far, so I'm
> sending this on (another account); you can write back to my email
> I was the one prohibited from launching (it still hurts; the wind was
> so nice) by Todd Fenzl, the deputy manager from the refuge. I called
> and had a nice talk with Elaine Johnson, the refuge manager. She was
> very patient, articulate, and well informed concerning the matters of
> this and other refuges' rules and regs. She's also not in favor of
> motorboats vs. human powered crafts, but Lake Lowell is partially
> funded by selling duck stamps, and so hunting for certain species at
> certain times is allowed. The fight against motorboats ands jet skis
> is beginning, but she feels it will be a monumental task, and she
> faces lawsuits on both sides of the issue (from the rednecks and the
> Basically, the refuge exists to protect migratory routes and nesting
> areas; any activity on the refuge must also support that; in some
> twisted way, hunting supports that (see above). The other issues are
> education, fishing, species conservation, and I forget the other two
> (she referred to them as 'the big six').
> Motorboats and hunting go hand in hand; sailing and canoes help fund
> and help educate, but I could not convince her that riding a
> surfboard either under sail or kite powered was another way to
> educate oneself on the complexities of the grebe mating display. She
> also pointed out that the air above a refuge is controlled airspace,
> and kites with people dangling under them is a violation of this rule.
> I asked her if it was futile to pursue this further; she said the
> final decision would have to come from far above her or the regional
> office; we both called USFWS law enforcement for their take, and they
> agreed. According to them, there's no benefit to having kiters and
> windsurfers there, so no permission is granted. So that leaves a
> campaign with the National Office, a branch of which is at NIFC, but
> only the fire branch. They would give us more information, or if
> anyone knows some senators...?