Ok I suppose I need to give more information here.
This is what we were doing
The BA's were involved in writing story cards and then working with
developers and DBAs when they were being implemented. Also they
wrote functional tests which got converted to automated tests during
the coding process / went into automated tests for QA. The BAs were
also meant to be customer facing to collabarate as required with
them. The BA's worked through the functional testing as code was
QA worked with development in terms of getting knowledge and code
transfer during the development process so that they could write the
automated tests in the system and also get an understanding of the
The BA's and QA's worked with together to have the system tested
once it rolled out of the development environment.
The only difference was that the BA's were 1 iteration ahead to get
stuff prepared for the next iteration and the QA's were one
iteration behind devl to test what was released and pretty much
played the role of a customer accepting the release.
But all this still does not answer my question. How do BA's get
involved, if they have no knowledge of coding?
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org
, Hubert Smits
> Fully agree with the previous speakers Arvind. I think you're
> to fit existing roles in a new name, and that is not what XP or
> is about. My view on BA and QA people is that they should be
> in testing. THe BA's write the acceptance tests, automated where
> possible. The QA people can pair with the developers to review
> deliverables when they are being created.
> From there it is a small step to make the QA people developers. In
> longer run the role of a BA becomes questionable. He either moves
> the business side (like Steven argues) or he's without a job. A
> developer plus a customer can develop the system, drive out
> requirements etc.
> Remember, Scrum is about the art of the possible. It's easy to
> the ideas, with argments like you are using. It is more difficult
> find ways to make it work, but true believers will do so and will
> the benefits.
> On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 18:33:44 -0700, Steven Gordon <sagordon@a...>
> > I concur with Gary. You were not doing XP. In fact, virtually
> > of XP would also be an implementation of Scrum.
> > Your QA people need to pair with your developers on development
tasks so that
> > they produce code that is already QAed and learn each other's
skills and mentality.
> > If a BA cannot bring himself to get his hands dirty with
development tasks, sharing
> > analysis skills directly with the team, then another possible
role for a BA can be
> > "product manager" - the person who represents all the customers
to the team and
> > makes the final prioritization decisions. This role is only
necessary if there are
> > too many different customers for them to efficiently represent
> > Steven Gordon
> > http[://sf.asu.edu/
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gary F [mailto:gfyho@y...]
> > Sent: Tue 11/2/2004 3:07 PM
> > To: email@example.com
> > Cc:
> > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum and Business
> > --- Arvind Sathyamoorthy <arvind@b...> wrote:
> > ...
> > > So how could all three groups work within the same PB
> > > without someone having a good amount of downtime. Since you
> > > cannot develop before analysis and design is complete, and
> > > cannot QA before dev is complete.
> > Did you really do XP before? You're describing the classic
> > model here.
> > Start by getting rid of these last assumptions. For one thing,
> > you're not doing QA until after development is complete, then
> > probably not doing QA at all - you're most likely just doing
> > But even testing starts early - certainly the acceptance tests
> > designed the instant you have some user stories (as a simple
> > While I know how I'd probably attack the business analyst issue,
> > hold off and leave that for folks with more experience in that
> > environment. My background is in traditional systems
> > type work where the role of "business analyst" simply doesn't
> > Gary
> > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@e...
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