I forgot my password to the forum, and I deleted the messages I received
from them, so I couldn't respond. Had to wait until another message came
through. Sorry for the delay.
The inarticulateness is in regard to OT thunders accompanying theophanies.
The question was specifically regarding whether the thunders are indeed
sealed permanently as well as the content of the scroll. You seem to think
the thunders can be equated to the trumpets. On what basis?
Because the one succeeds the other?
First, the scroll isn't sealed; it's open, lying in the hand of the angel (I
know you are aware of that!). Second, the thunders are sealed, but, as I
noted, I cannot see how they will (would) remain sealed. Otherwise, why
bring them up? Third, No, I do not equate the thunders to the trumpets. I
have only noted that the thunders are judgements, that they are included
within the sixth trumpet's sounding.
The rumbing noises you refer to in Ezekiel are the wings of the Cherubim in
the transportation account. I fail to see that it has any particular
relation or parallel to the thunders in this passage. The thunders seem to
be the accompaniment of a theophanic event, but I'm loathe to equate them
with the whirling of the wings of the Cherubim. In Ex 19.16, e.g. "there
were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mountain" as an
accompaniment to the theophany. In 2 Sam 22.14 we have
"The LORD thundered from heaven,
The Most High uttered his voice."
I'm simply noting that the close proximity of the measuring of Jerusalem and
the witnesses in Zech 2 and 3 and the measuring of the temple and then the
two witnesses in Revelation 11 suggests a possible relationship between
Ezekiel's scroll-eating and the thunderous movement of the cherubim with
John's scroll eating and the thunderous utterances.
In view of the theophanic event contextualizing the cherubim in Ezekiel and
in Revelation--considering, too, the references you noted in regard to the
LORD thundering from heaven, etc.,--I to not deem it worth loathing a
consideration for the thunders to be in relationship to both judgement and
the cherubim's thunderous sounds (in Ezekiel); those sounds reflecting the
movement of the God who judges. No, the thunders of Revelation are not the
cherubim, but I think thunder, in general, reflects something of both the
presence of God (as you noted) and of His judgements, be they positive or
In Re 4 it likewise mentions lightning flashes and peals of thunder in the
throne-room scene. This really seems more equivalent to me -- especially in
view of the fact that it speaks of seven thunders here which is parallel to
the Seven Spirits as well as the seven eyes and seven horns of the Lamb.
I do not parallel the thunderous utterances in Revelation 10 with the Seven
Spirits or the Lamb's eyes or anything like that (save those "sevens" which
are references to judgement) just because there are sevens in each of them.
I do agree with you, however, that there is relationship between the
cherubim in the throne room and cherubim in Ezekiel.
You know, gfsomsel, as I think about this more, I can appreciate your
rejection of my parallels; however, let me say that something unique about
the cherubim throughout Scripture is that they are very closely tied to--as
if to represent--the "in between" of God and man; they are there on the
Mercy Seat, their in the artwork of the temple, they're present when God is
about to judge, and they're present in worship. And all of this is in
context to the work of God through the Christ to redeem mankind. So, from a
broad perspective (and, again, from the close proximities of the parallels
I've mentioned), I see a relationship between the thunderous utterances and
the thundering cherubim, but I will say that this is a broad perspective!
Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet