>>Oh boy, it seems that Eternal Bullshit has suddenly been alleviated
into a archtypical hero of sorts! And so the bad boy (me), has become
the posterboy of hatred, huh?
[M_Y]Do you care or object to being "posterboy" of hatred, Roy? I
don't think you give a rat's ass on what I or others think.
>>UN laws, you say? Well, fine then, perhaps let us evaluate them,
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They
are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one
another in a spirit of brotherhood.
>>BEAST: Fair enough. No one said Bullshit never had the dignity and
rights. He had them: till he gave them up through a series of
bloopers, bad science, juvenile behaviour and a whole lot of lies.
[M_Y] Please tell me how this perceived intellectual ineptness would
make a human being loose his/her dignity and rights.
With your juvenile behaviour, does this mean that we should consider
your rights to be treated with dignity gone? Have you acted in a
manner that promotes the spirit of brotherhood?
>>This law applies only when a human being behaves as one. It does
not pertain to a tolerance of fools.
[M_Y]Really? So how do you think we should treat you, then?
Let's say, for argument's sake, that Eternal is a fool. Now everytime
he surfaces and blurts out foolish words, you also come out and
debunk/counter his foolishness. As per Obiwan Kenobi: who is the more
foolish, the fool or the one who follows the fool?
Every human being has equal rights to dignity, regardless of
intellectual superiority or ineptness. The law does not put any
conditions on this.
The philosopher Immanuel Kant argued that the worst thing a person
can do to another human being is to treat another person as mere
means. There are 2 basic types of values Intrinsic value and
Instrumental value. Intrinsic value of something is the value of
something "in itself" or "for it's own sake". For instance, having
life can be said to be intrinsically good. With this, we can ask, why
is it good or what makes having a life good? Some may say that having
a life can enable you to do things. This then may lead to another
question what makes being able to do things good? And so on and so
forth. Eventually, we would end up with something in line with
is good because it just is".
Instrumental value is value of something derived from it's use. We
can say that a "can opener" is valuable because it enables us to open
cans. But take away the use of a "can opener", then there isn't
anything left for the "can opener" a value can be given to.
Let us apply this to a human being. If a human being has lost his/her
use in society, does this make the value of life he/she has
disappear? No, because life itself has value for it's own sake it
has an intrinsic value.
Now you treat Eternal with utmost disrespect because of his
intellectual ineptness. You imply that Eternal does not have the
right to dignity because of his series of bloopers, bad science,
juvenile behaviour and a whole lot of lies. With this, we can say
that you probably believe that Eternal would have the right to
dignity if he contributed good science and such. Why would a person's
right to dignity be a function of his/her utility or
use/contribution? Since he can't contribute "good science" or
a "pleasing behaviour" to you, you treat him as good for nothing. You
are treating another human being as mere means.
The law goes beyond instrumental values because in each and everyone
of us lies intrinsic values, regardless of our status or beliefs.
>>By the way, I exercise 0 tolerance for the likes of Eternal
[M_Y]I hope, for your own sake, that you do not encounter someone
who'll exercise 0 tolerance to the likes of you, Roy.
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this
Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour,
sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or
social origin, property, birth or other status.
>>Beast:I criticized him not because of his race. I criticized him
for his lack of analytical power and his appalling lack of
apprehension for anything scientific.
[M_Y]To be critical of someone's thoughts is one thing. To maltreat a
person is another. You maltreat Eternal because of his opinions. The
law is clear that we (including Eternal) have the rights and freedoms
without distinction of ANY kind. We may not like Eternal's opinions
but you have no right to maltreat him because of that.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
>>Beast: He has every right to live his life, however delusional it
[M_Y] Yes and with that right to live comes his birth-given dignity
that must be respected.
>>No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or
degrading treatment or punishment.
>>Beast: You should ask the American soldiers. Not me. I haven't even
touched Eternal Bullshit, and don't intend to.
[M_Y]Torture, cruelty, degradation, and the likes are not limited to
the physical. You have subjected Eternal to degradation and blatant
cruelty with your words.
Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before
>>Beast: Yes. In fact, Eternal Bullshit was basking in his own
limelight. We recognize him alright. As a incorrigible moron.
[M_Y]You continue to disrespect Eternal's personhood that's the big
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any
discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to
equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this
Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
>>Beast: Woo!! So I am guilty of inciting discrimination!
[M_Y]Are you surprised with this?
>>Hold your horses for a moment. When he began his incessant "ha ha
has" and so on, did he for once think that people will discriminate
him for his open use of juvenile sounds?
[M_Y]Why don't you ask him yourself, Roy? But why would juvenile
words/sounds give a go-signal to discrimination?
>>By calling Carl Sagan a moron, did he justify himself? Did he show
any respect for himself whatsoever?
[M_Y]No he didn't. Look, I also do not agree with a lot of his ways,
even Eternal knows that as I have told this to him both publicly and
privately. He has his faults as well. But his faults do not give you
(nor anyone else) the right to maltreat him and disrespect his
>>No one is discriminating him, Misterrific. He got his just
desserts. Hell, he even claims he enjoyed the attention.
[M_Y]I hope you are right and I am just mistaken on this, Roy.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and
religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or
belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in
public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching,
practice, worship and observance.
>>BEAST: I don't give a damn as to what he practices. Even if he
claims kissing god's ass can cure pimples, i don't give a damn as
long as he keeps his bullshit to himself.
[M_Y]What is the matter, Roy? If it is bullshit then why give so much
shit about bullshit? If what Eternal is saying is so full of it then
why continue engaging with him? Of course he'll respond to things
directed at him in ways he knows how.
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this
right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to
seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and
regardless of frontiers.
>>Beast: He has the right to speak up; we have our right to lampoon
>>Freedom of speech works both ways.
[M_Y]We can criticize his beliefs but we really have no right to
maltreat him. Freedom of speech and expression does not give one a
trump card, Roy. There is a line to be recognized and that is
infringement on the rights of others.
>>The way I see itt, I have not violated even a single clause.
[M_Y]Sorry, I disagree.
>>Eternal Bullshit's integrity is subjected to:
-How he voices his opinion;
-How he positions himself in the cause of social interaction;
[M_Y]But even with these, he is still born free and equal in dignity
and rights. Even with flawed opinions and poor social skills, he is
still a human being with intrinsic values that we all should respect.
>> -How much integrity he has.
[M_Y]I'm sorry, "Eternal Bullshit's integrity is subjected to how
much integrity he has"? Could you perhaps restate or clarify this?
>> The way I see it, Bullshit deserves no respect when he:
1. Sprouts theories which he insists are fact, but offers no tangible
2. Calls Carl Sagan a moron.
3. Lies about his energy expert identity.
4. Is jobless, yet lives in a delusional world of his own, even to
the extent of wanting to publish books.
[M_Y]Great! Now you have all the right to keep these sentiments to
>>To even suggest that Eternal Bullshit is "valiant" and "brave" is
[M_Y]If you find that appalling, then good for you.
>>So he wants a debate?
[M_Y]Yes, it appears so.
>>He supports an Atheist Constitution which will result in a
complete loss of free speech in the forum?
[M_Y]It won't be a complete loss of free speech, Roy. The
Constitution is also meant to define the privileges of the members
and establish some order. You see, as with other forms of freedom,
completely unrestricted freedom of speech and expression may lead to
infringement on the rights of others; some restraints are necessary
>>I think I have reiterated many times why I will not engage Bullshit
in a debate.
[M_Y]Yes, we know you do not choose to debate him formally. We also
know that you intend to verbally abuse him until he leaves, instead.
I, for one, am hoping you'll just ignore him.
>>As for the Constitution, I haven't spoken about it because I have
not seen any concrete actions yet.
[M_Y]Well, I also see that the interest for it is waning.
>>But any form of control to pussify the forum should be discouraged.
[M_Y]The Constitution does not intend to "pussify" the forum. It
actually is meant to protect the secular nature of the forum and
protect it from being hijacked by religious zealots. The way I see
it, it's use is a "craftier" and a more civilized way of dealing with
conflicts, especially with theists trying to hijack the forum. We
don't want to be deemed as barbaric infidels, do we?
>>You may consider Eternal Bullshit to be a hero, go ahead and kiss
his ass. Its your constitutional right.
[M_Y]He is no hero and I don't intend to brown-nose. I just find your
disrespectful ways and blatant disregard of civility and compassion,
>>But don't even consider that I will stoop to his level.
[M_Y]What I am hoping for is for you to give him and a lot of us here
a break from the continuous and pointless bombardment. Let's move on.
If what Eternal says is bullshit, then let's not give a shit about
his bullshit. Come on, dude, let it go.
>He is a jobless idiot with a lot of time and no money in his hands.
[M_Y]Well, he still is a human being with rights and dignity. You may
not think too much of Eternal based on his image here at the PA
forum. But you know image is one thing and the human being is
another. As the King of Rock and Roll once said: "Don't criticize
what you don't understand, son. You never walked in that man's shoes."
>>I rest my case.
[M_Y]Thank you, thank you very much. <In an Elvis voice followed by
an announcement that says... "Ladies and Gentlemen, Elvis has left
;) Take care, Roy.