The same speach by Vl Ambrose ("The accomplishment of our Church's
calling", an explanaotory text on the rapprochement between
the MP and the ROCOR", October 2005) contains a wealth of additional
contradictions. For instance, Vl Ambrose (who very soon and in secret
had made contacts with the MP before the ROCOR ever spoke of the
presently ongoing unia,) says now that he goes to the MP against his
heart. This means that his heart (his conscience) is in contradiction
with the path that he has chosen to follow.
This admission might be his most significant statement, because it
comes directly from his heart. This speaks so much more than all
disputes about canonicity, which might have been inspired by Vl Mark.
I pray that Vl Ambrose be judged more for his heart than for his
Does real politik have a place in orthodoxy?
PS. Concerning my previous message, please read, in the quote of Vl
Ambrose, translated from the French: "by a patient sapping work, it
(the MP) made our canonical situation progressively worse".
--- In email@example.com
> Dear List,
> Those who left bishop Ambrose were declared uncanonical
> for doing so.
> Bishop Ambrose however says that the ROCOR is not really canonical,
> and that those who did not accept him as their canonical bishop
> legitimately (canonically) excluded from ROCOR by a him, a
> bishop of an uncanonical Church for claiming on the contrary, that
> ROCOR was canonical, when in fact, he the canonical bishop of that
> Church claims canonically that the latter is not canonical.
> Moreover, bishop Ambrose too holds the "ludicrous" view that the
> 1943 "MP" was created from scratch by the Soviet Government.
> It is interesting, once more to see that people who doubt that the
> ROCOR is canonical are considered as being her friends or even
> canonical bishops.
> It is interesting also to see that, according to the canonical
> of an uncanonical Church, the actions orf the Soviet government
> have an effect on ROCOR's canonicity.
> I still hold that the orthodox Church is a monument of consistency,
> and that inconsistencies are foreign to the true Church.
> In Christ,
> Vladimir Kozyreff
> "One must say this very clearly, our present canonical situation is
> of disputable strength. Indeed, it was very strong in the years
> 1930, so that the orthodox world accepted us in general, with some
> nuances, however.
> After WW II however, the soviet govrenment understood that the MP,
> which it had created from scratch ("de toutes pièces" in French) in
> 1943 could help it in its propaganda work. Since that momnet, by a
> patient work of sape, it made our canonical situation progressively
> Bishop Ambrose, Vevey, October 2005, "The accomplishment of our
> Church's calling", an explanaotory text on the rapprochement
> the MP and the ROCOR".
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "vkozyreff"
> <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
> > Dear Father Daniel, bless.
> > You write that it is "ludicrous" to say that the MP was founded
> > Stalin.
> > Was Met Anthony of Geneva's understanding (see below) "ludicrous"
> > well? ("Having split from the apparition of the Church created by
> > Soviet state").
> > In Christ,
> > Vladimir Kozyreff
> > "Metropolitan Anthony broke with the Moscow Patriarchate only
> > the well-known declaration of Metropolitan Sergius, since from
> > moment on, the Moscow Patriarchate ceased to represent the
> > Church. Having split from the apparition of the Church created by
> > Soviet state, he wisely undercut the Communist deception and
> > the heads of all the local Churches. The deception was not
> > successful.
> > Archbishop ANTHONY of Geneva and Western Europe, Our Church in
> > Modern World, (Report for the III Pan-Diaspora Council of 1974)http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/english/pages/articles/churchinwor
> > ld.html
> > --- In email@example.com, "orthodoxchurch_sg"
> > <orthodoxchurch_sg@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "vkozyreff"
> > > <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear List,
> > > >
> > > > Judging that the head of an organisation founded by Stalin
> > >
> > > Would you argue that the pre-Revolutionary Russian Orthodox
> > was
> > > founded by Peter the Great? There is as much reason to claim
> > as
> > > your ludicrous assumption.
> > >
> > > God bless / Fr Daniel
> > >