... Whatever. That s not where the discussion is now. ... If so, they ve been seriously misled. To say Tolkien s pastoral sympathies overlapped with Morris sMessage 1 of 42 , Feb 2, 2004View SourceAt 07:15 PM 2/2/2004 +0000, Elizabeth R. Milner wrote:
>I think the discussion started with the question of why theWhatever. That's not where the discussion is now.
>Socialists would look so kindly on Tolkien, not vice versa.
>I thinkIf so, they've been seriously misled. To say Tolkien's pastoral sympathies
>the William Morris connection is part of the explanation.
overlapped with Morris's and were partly inspired by his, and that the
socialists may share some of these with both of them - that's one thing,
and emphasizes the tenuousness of the connection and that this is just one
area of overlap of diverse minds. But to say, or even imply, that Tolkien
was a student of Morris's thought and that Morris's medievalist thought was
necessarily socialist and that therefore Tolkien, even unconsciously, was a
socialist fellow-traveler and is therefore of sympathetic interest to
socialists, insults Morris, Tolkien, and socalists alike.
>SeparatingActually, with Morris it's remarkably easy. As I said, these two areas
>the pastoral from the political is a bit hard to do when dealing with
were connected in his mind; but they're not at all contingent on each
other. A reader of his romances alone could not determine his political
views, and most such readers aren't even interested; while a complete
perplexity at his medievalism seems de rigeur among students of his
socialist principles. Check the books on Morris from a socialist
perspective: they have essentially nothing to say about the massive
fiction-writing projects that obsessed his final years.
- David Bratman
I *hated* the film *First Knight*: it practically blessed Lance and Gwen s affair, even from Arthur s deathbed. Gwen will eternally be a blonde for me; aMessage 42 of 42 , Feb 5, 2004View SourceI *hated* the film *First Knight*: it practically blessed Lance and Gwen's
affair, even from Arthur's deathbed. Gwen will eternally be a blonde for
me; a brunette Gwen is dubious to me, though it's likely she could be one
if she's Celtic (depends on your favorite sources); lots of dark haired
folk. Why does Connery appear in so many dreadful films? O;) ---djb
From: David Bratman dbratman@...
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:54:28 -0800
Subject: Re: [mythsoc] Awards, deserved and undeserved
At 01:18 AM 2/1/2004 -0500, Grace wrote:
>In a message dated 1/31/2004 5:52:43 PM Central Standard Time,Why not just wear a headset to the theatre and get a more pleasant
>The Tolkien Ensemble's music is very evocative of the book: so much so, in
>fact, that it would be badly suited for Jackson's films, which is evocative
>of something else altogether.
>True, true. But at least it would have given me something to enjoy while I
>was hideously bored for three precious hours that were wasted, never to be
soundtrack for the whole thing, not just the music? It's not like very
much in the plot would be a surprise, and that which was a surprise you'd
be better off not knowing.
Only one film I've ever watched all the way through was so bad I felt like
demanding a refund, not of my money, but of the time it sucked out of my
life. This was "First Knight", an Arthurian fluff utterly unredeemed by
the presence of Sean Connery, John Gielgud, and even Alexis Denisof.
- David Bratman
The Mythopoeic Society website http://www.mythsoc.org
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