Browse Groups

• QUESTION TO ALL: Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES SCREW as TURBINE ?. Either IMPERIAL or Metric .. Thanks Nando
Message 1 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
View Source
QUESTION TO ALL:

Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
SCREW as TURBINE ?.

Either IMPERIAL or Metric ..

Thanks

Nando
• ... Nando, Wouldn t this turbine conform to the same hydro formulae that you use all the time? The physics shouldn t change. P = h r g Q H Head is simple
Message 2 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
View Source
At 10:13 AM 11/1/2008, you wrote:

>QUESTION TO ALL:
>
>Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
>SCREW as TURBINE ?.

Nando,

Wouldn't this turbine conform to the same hydro formulae that you use
all the time? The physics shouldn't change.

P = h r g Q H

Head is simple enough ... Flow rate is harder though ... depends on
the size and speed of the screw.

After Googling a bit -- The stability of output power vs. flow is
remarkable, based on the data at that Mann site...

Didn't Archimedes figure this out? OK, he was designing pumps .. but
this can't be too tough to reverse-engineer ...

(The video of the 48kW unit at that River Park site is waaay cool!)

:-)

Bill

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Bill: The basic formula as you stated is earth physics defined . What I need is the formulation and the parameters to design the turbine or screw parameters
Message 3 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
View Source
Bill:

The basic formula as you stated is earth physics defined .

What I need is the formulation and the parameters to design the turbine or screw parameters that have to have the dimensioning of the center diameter ( shaft) and the screw blades plus their width and angles that are calculated based on the head and volume which may indicate an angle placement of the turbine in relation to the blade angle, within certain limitations, to be able to produce power or to pump water up to about one atmosphere pressure equivalent height since it is an open system.

The parameters of the pump and the turbine may be quite well related to each other and may be with very low technical and mechanical difference between them.

Nando

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Sepmeier
To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE

At 10:13 AM 11/1/2008, you wrote:

>QUESTION TO ALL:
>
>Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
>SCREW as TURBINE ?.

Nando,

Wouldn't this turbine conform to the same hydro formulae that you use
all the time? The physics shouldn't change.

P = h r g Q H

Head is simple enough ... Flow rate is harder though ... depends on
the size and speed of the screw.

After Googling a bit -- The stability of output power vs. flow is
remarkable, based on the data at that Mann site...

Didn't Archimedes figure this out? OK, he was designing pumps .. but
this can't be too tough to reverse-engineer ...

(The video of the 48kW unit at that River Park site is waaay cool!)

:-)

Bill

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• ... I think you ll find most of what you need at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_screw Scroll down the page for the math.... here s the gist of it.
Message 4 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
View Source
>What I need is the formulation and the
>parameters to design the turbine or screw
>parameters that have to have the dimensioning of
>the center diameter ( shaft) and the screw
>blades plus their width and angles that are
>calculated based on the head and volume which
>may indicate an angle placement of the turbine
>in relation to the blade angle, within certain
>limitations, to be able to produce power or to
>pump water up to about one atmosphere pressure
>equivalent height since it is an open system.
>The parameters of the pump and the turbine may
>be quite well related to each other and may be
>with very low technical and mechanical difference between them.

I think you'll find most of what you need
at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes_screw

Scroll down the page for the math.... here's the
gist of it. A diagram is embedded at the bottom of this email...

Mathematics behind the screw

The slope of the outside of the screw's helical
blades with respect to its sides is 2. This
requires that the slope the screw makes with
respect to a horizontal line be less than 2 (an
angle of 63°) in order for the buckets or pockets
of water to form. In the profile of the screw,
the projection of each helical blade consists of
two sinusoidal curves with the same periods and phases.
One has an amplitude equal to the radius of the
outer cylinder and the other has an amplitude
equal to the radius of the inner cylinder. The
horizontal water level of each full bucket of
water is tangent to the inner sinusoidal curve.
Thus, if the equation on the inner sinusoidal
curve is y = sin x, then the water level is
tangent to it at x = arccos( 3/4) = 138.59°.

d = diameter of centre tube
= angle of installation
H1 = difference of medium levels, effective head
H2 = maximum difference of medium levels, delivery head
J = number of flights
L = length of helix
S = rise

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Main_measures_screw-1-.jpg>
[]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• ... Even better - one of the cites on that wiki page: The Turn of the Screw: Optimal Design of an
Message 5 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
View Source
At 02:24 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote:

>What I need is the formulation and the parameters to design the turbine

Even better - one of the cites on that wiki page:

<http://www.mcs.drexel.edu/%7Ecrorres/screw/screw.pdf>The Turn of the
Screw: Optimal Design of an Archimedes
Screw<http://www.mcs.drexel.edu/%7Ecrorres/screw/screw.pdf>, by Chris
Rorres, PhD.

or --- http://www.cs.drexel.edu/~crorres/screw/screw.pdf -- if the
link doesn't make it through the listserver...

Bill

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Dear Nando, I transfer these informations from WIKIPEDIA：   Mathematics behind the screw The slope of the outside of the screw s helical blades with
Message 6 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
View Source
Dear Nando,
I transfer these informations from WIKIPEDIA：
Mathematics behind the screw
The slope of the outside of the screw's helical blades with respect to its sides is 2. This requires that the slope the screw makes with respect to a horizontal line be less than 2 (an angle of 63°) in order for the buckets or pockets of water to form. In the profile of the screw, the projection of each helical blade consists of two sinusoidal curves with the same periods and phases.

Main dimensions of a screwpump
One has an amplitude equal to the radius of the outer cylinder and the other has an amplitude equal to the radius of the inner cylinder. The horizontal water level of each full bucket of water is tangent to the inner sinusoidal curve. Thus, if the equation on the inner sinusoidal curve is y = sin x, then the water level is tangent to it at x = arccos(−3/4) = 138.59°.

d = diameter of centre tube
β = angle of installation
H1 = difference of medium levels, effective head
H2 = maximum difference of medium levels, delivery head
J = number of flights
L = length of helix
S = rise

A N I M A T I O N S

Back to . . .
Archimedes Home Page
This section . . .
Sources
Illustrations
Engravings

Screw Conveyors
Animations
Optimal Design

QuickTime movie showing how a two-bladed Archimedes screw lifts water.
Large: 416 x 320 pixels, 183 kilobytes
21 frames, black and white (bitmap)
Small: 208 x 160 pixels, 184 kilobytes
21 frames, grayscale Set your movie player to "Loop" so that the screw will continuously turn. Make sure your movie player shows all 21 frames; otherwise you will see undesirable stroboscopic effects.

Here are two QuickTime movies showing the cross-sections of a two-bladed and eight-bladed Archimedes screw as they revolve. You can download the following sizes of these movies (all are 34 frames long at 30 frames/second):
Large: 340 kilobytes, 372 x 372 pixels
Medium: 148 kilobytes, 186 x 186 pixels
Small: 76 kilobytes, 93 x 93 pixels
Large: 384 kilobytes, 372 x 372 pixels
Medium: 168 kilobytes, 186 x 186 pixels
Small: 72 kilobytes, 93 x 93 pixels Set your movie player to "Loop" so that the screw will continuously turn. Make sure your movie player shows all 34 frames; otherwise you will see undesirable stroboscopic effects.
The two-bladed cross-section is for the screw whose profile is in the first figure. The eight-bladed screw has the same profile, but with four times as many blades. An example of a two-bladed screw is shown in the two illustrations of modern Egyptian farmers.

The screws in the animations have the proportions described by Virtruvius in his De Architectura. In particular, the length of the screw is eight times its outside diameter; the diameter of the inner cylinder is one-half the outside diameter; and the length along the screw of one turn of a helical blade is equal to the circumference of the inner cylinder. However, while Vitruvius's screw had eight blades, the first animation above has only two because of the limited resolution of the movie.
The rotation of the screw is clockwise when looking down from the top water level. Each turn of the screw empties two "buckets" of water of the two-bladed screw and eight buckets of the eight-bladed screw. The angle of inclination of the screw is that determined by a 3-4-5 triangle (what Virtruvius calls a "Pythagorean right-angled triangle"), which is 36.870° (a slope of 3/4).
Mathematical notes: The slope of the outside of the screw's helical blades with respect to its sides is 2. This requires that the slope the screw makes with respect to a horizontal line be less that 2 (an angle of 63.435°) in order for the buckets or pockets of water to form. In the profile of the screw the projection of each helical blade consists of two sinusoidal curves with the same periods and phases. One has an amplitude equal to the radius of the outer cylinder and the other has an amplitude equal to the radius of the inner cylinder. The horizontal water level of each full bucket of water is tangent to the inner sinusoidal curve. Thus, if the equation on the inner sinusoidal curve is y = sin x, then the water level is tangent to it at x = arccos(-3/4) = 138.59°.

--- 08/11/2 (星期日)，Nando <nando37@...> 寫道：

寄件者: Nando <nando37@...>
主旨: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE
收件者: "MICROHYDRO" <microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
日期: 2008 11 2 星期日 上午 12:13

QUESTION TO ALL:

Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
SCREW as TURBINE ?.

Either IMPERIAL or Metric ..

Thanks

Nando

______________________________________________________________________________________________________
付費才容量無上限？Yahoo!奇摩電子信箱2.0免費給你，信件永遠不必刪！ http://tw.mg0.mail.yahoo.com/dc/landing

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Thanks to those that have replied to my message : Archimedes Screw Turbine. All the information that have been supplied I have had it for some time now, To
Message 7 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
View Source
Thanks to those that have replied to my message : Archimedes Screw Turbine.

All the information that have been supplied I have had it for some time now,

To calculate the screw, it not the problem, it is to calculate power and RPM generated. and possibly the efficiency under the water volume, screw dimensions and angles to be able to do an estimate system design power generation or even power require to move pump water under the same conditions.

I have been trying to find academia report or articles, unhappily no longer a member of societies to be able to fin or download them if available.

Thanks to all for any assistance you may provide to this endeavor.

Nando

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Sepmeier
To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com ; Nando
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE

At 02:24 PM 11/2/2008, you wrote:

>What I need is the formulation and the parameters to design the turbine

Even better - one of the cites on that wiki page:

<http://www.mcs.drexel.edu/%7Ecrorres/screw/screw.pdf>The Turn of the
Screw: Optimal Design of an Archimedes
Screw<http://www.mcs.drexel.edu/%7Ecrorres/screw/screw.pdf>, by Chris
Rorres, PhD.

or --- http://www.cs.drexel.edu/~crorres/screw/screw.pdf -- if the
link doesn't make it through the listserver...

Bill

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Hi... if you wish to build one.... just go to a farm machinery dealer and buy a grain auger and stick it in the water and turn.... it will pump water at a
Message 8 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
View Source
Hi... if you wish to "build" one.... just go to a farm machinery dealer and buy a grain auger and stick it in the water and turn.... it will pump water at a lower angle.  Or line the "flighting with a seal edging and it will do better .....
If you are running water down through it will spin..... and generate power... ( but rather inefficient.
Have fun....
best regards........ Time Slider

Smile at your neighbours , be Happy, and Leave the Earth Green, Tread as Lightly on the Earth as You Know How...

Sawedoffshortdog

--- On Sat, 11/1/08, Nando <nando37@...> wrote:

From: Nando <nando37@...>
Subject: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE
To: "MICROHYDRO" <microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 12:13 PM

QUESTION TO ALL:

Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
SCREW as TURBINE ?.

Either IMPERIAL or Metric ..

Thanks

Nando

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• Time: I think that you are wrong stating : rather inefficient . The Archimedes Screw as a turbine with a generator may have as high as 84 % efficiency
Message 9 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
View Source
Time:

I think that you are wrong stating : rather inefficient .

The Archimedes Screw as a turbine with a generator may have as high as 84 % efficiency

Down load this article and notice that the efficiency is high well above 80 % within the ranges of a Turgo turbine.

As a pump the efficiency is as well high.

Nando

----- Original Message -----
From: time slider
To: microhydro@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE

Hi... if you wish to "build" one.... just go to a farm machinery dealer and buy a grain auger and stick it in the water and turn.... it will pump water at a lower angle. Or line the "flighting with a seal edging and it will do better .....
If you are running water down through it will spin..... and generate power... ( but rather inefficient.
Have fun....
best regards........ Time Slider

Smile at your neighbours , be Happy, and Leave the Earth Green, Tread as Lightly on the Earth as You Know How...

Sawedoffshortdog

--- On Sat, 11/1/08, Nando <nando37@...> wrote:

From: Nando <nando37@...>
Subject: [microhydro] ARCHIMEDES SCREW TURBINE
To: "MICROHYDRO" <microhydro@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 12:13 PM

QUESTION TO ALL:

Does any one have the calculations and formulas to design an ARCHIMEDES
SCREW as TURBINE ?.

Either IMPERIAL or Metric ..

Thanks

Nando

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• ... Chris in Maine [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Message 10 of 10 , Nov 4, 2008
View Source
> Those interested in the Archimedes screw as a modern large scale pump might
> enjoy looking at these applications:
>
> http://www.math.nyu.edu/~crorres/Archimedes/Screw/Applications.html
>
> also:
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:IMG_1729_Gemaal_met_schroef_van_Archim
> edes_bij_Kinderdijk.JPG
>
>

Chris in Maine

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.
• Changes have not been saved
Press OK to abandon changes or Cancel to continue editing
• Your browser is not supported
Kindly note that Groups does not support 7.0 or earlier versions of Internet Explorer. We recommend upgrading to the latest Internet Explorer, Google Chrome, or Firefox. If you are using IE 9 or later, make sure you turn off Compatibility View.