> > > > > > Hi, Maria Luisa, I have no bones (tee hee) with your
> > > > > > words, except that I did want to point out that the body
> > > > > > organism is part of the identity and part of what may be
> > > > > > protected.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To stop and observe reactions to threats
> > > > > > we typically ascribe to 'being of the mind'
> > > > > > and thus only 'threats to identity',
> > > > > > will reveal that these 'threats to identity'
> > > > > > correspond integrally with 'threats to the body'.
> > > > > > The converse is also observable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nina
> > > > >
> > > > > YES NINA,
> > > > > BUT HAVE YOU SOMEHOW KNOWN OR NOTICED THAT EVEN
> > > > > THE BODY ORGANISM IS ANOTHER PROJECTION OF MIND?
> > > > > IT'S AS UNGRASPABLE AS ANYTHING ELSE
> > > > > ONCE UNDERSTOOD AS A COMPOUND OF PERCEPTIONS
> > > > > (VIA THE FIVE SENSES).
> > > > > I THINK WE ARE TRAPPED IN THE FIVE SENSES
> > > > > MORE THAN WE ACCEPT IT.
> > > > >
> > > > > LOVE,
> > > > > ML
> > Hello, Maria Luisa,
> > I'm not entirely comfortable with the word 'projection'
> > as you have used it, but I'll go along with it:
> > Agreed, that the body organism is a projection of mind.
> > However, mind is also a projection of the body organism.
> > The two feed each other, and are united in that feeding.
> > It's another chicken and egg story.
> > The mind speaks in thoughts, the body in sensation.
> > Thoughts and sensations are both expressions of stimulation.
> > Where does the stimulation come from?
> > What prompts a thought or a sensation to arise?
> > Nina
> No Nina,
> sorry, sorry, but no.
> There is the Self or Consciousness,
> the basis, the substratum.
> From the Self or Consciousness
> the first cognition, "I", arises.
> "I" is the first thing for any other thought to arise,
> the thought of a body, the thought of a world,
> the thought of a me in the world, etc.
> This thoughts are what i term as MIND.
> Mind is thought, and thought does not come from a body,
> it comes from Consciousness.
> Stimulations are responses to accumulated memories,
> (ask Gene about samskaras, or tendencies).
> Thoughts arise spontaneously, they get an order by their own,
> ones come first, others come afterwards, time is created.
> maria luisa
Why be sorry, Maria Luisa? Let's look at this again..
What is required, for the "I" thought to arise?
Allow me to put forth,
that the "I" thought is a complex thought
that is not simple differentiation
of "me" from "Consciousness",
differentiation of "me" from
a datum which exists prior to the "I" thought.
What is required, for a newborn
to come into the "I" thought?
In other words,
what is this datum that must exist prior to the "I" thought?
Allow me to put forth,
that the newly conceived human
has no sense of "I" prior to birth,
there is a vast, timeless undifferentiated being.
There forms a body, through mytosis,
which is the splitting and differentiation of cells.
Has the "I" thought arisen in the mind of the newly conceived?
No, but it has arisen in the body of the newly conceived.
One cell declares, "I am a liver cell."
The next declares, "I am a muscle cell."
The newly conceived human, however, has no "I" sense.
Duality, however, is working its way up
through the newly conceived's cells,
waiting for the pieces to be put in place
and for the quickening to build
to the moment where the newborn is propelled
into a most profound experience of
mytosis: that of birth, the rending of
the newly conceived from union with the mother.
A newly conceived human, has no sense
of 'void/form', 'push/pull', 'up/down', 'light/dark', etc.
as the newly conceived human has not yet
experienced these dualities. A newborn, however,
rapidly assimilates these experiences, which
register as profound realizations, obscuring
the void of prebirth.
It is in the rapid assimilation of these experiences
of difference, that the "I" sense begins to form,
from most simple to the most complex.
It is through the body that these experiences are had,
and it is through the body, that the mind
forms the original sense of "I".
Samskaras are nothing but accumulations of
experiences of difference. It may be seen
that the root of samskara is found in our
cellular function, in the dynamics of birth,
and in the flurry of realizations immediately
It is only later, when the original moment of
the arising "I" thought is completely lost,
that it seems that "I" have always been present,
that "I" is the first thought that arises.
By this time, the "I" thought is so well-ingrained
as to its purpose, the perpetuation of the "I",
that it has convinced us, that there is nothing but "I"
as the source of thought.
It might be said, that the "I" awareness percolates
from the bottom up, from the cells into the mind,
which is only the most superficial, graspable
sheath of millions of functions within the bodymind.
You have no doubt heard, in your study of yoga,
that the mind is a sense organ. The body is an
integral part of that sensing. Without the body,
without the living breath, the mind has no ground,
and so, dissolves. Where does your thinking mind
go upon death? Back into the void.
There can be no thinking mind without the body.
Likewise, body does not exist without some form of
thinking mind. They are an inseparable siamese twin,
saying "I" am not "you", but at the same time,
sharing the most vital of organs and fluids.
Do you see here, I am not speaking of "thoughts of
the body" or "thoughts of the mind", but rather,
about a functional relationship between body and mind?
I am also pointing to the origins of this relationship,
from a place where sensation in the body comes into being
at the same time that thought in the mind comes into being.
We may never understand how it is that the origination
of all this arising was stimulated. We must go way back
to find this, well before the arising of my "I" thought,
well before the arising of my cellular division, and that
of my ancestors, and the world that bore my ancestors.
It is the epic tale of genesis - and that is the truly
ungraspable piece, beyond imagination, beyond thinking.
You let me know if this isn't a simple enough. ;)