... Not a problem Broom. Happy to pass on information. NOTE: These are not necissarily my concerns. I m combining concerns that I heard, specifically thisAug 6 1 of 42View Source
> You're going to have to give examples of what you mean,Not a problem Broom. Happy to pass on information.
NOTE: These are not necissarily 'my' concerns. I'm combining concerns
that I heard, specifically this year (and previous), from all the
members of my Barony, as well as many other friends that I have at
Pennsic. The phrase: "Yeah I gave up on taking classes years ago" was
stated many times by people to me at this Pennsic.
> because I'veSorry, let me clarify. In this, I didn't refer to the 'that' process.
> been teaching at Pennsic for over 13 years, and the process of class
> registration hasn't changed in several years, AFAICT. There seemed to be
> a software limit on the number of classes one could teach for the first
> time this year (instead of an informal limit), but I didn't test it, and
> it won't affect more than a couple teachers anyway.
But bigger aspects of it. Let me address it from two aspects:
1. Overall Teacher Registration/planning.
Most people who 'would be a teacher', I find have issues trying to sign
it to teach classes, because of scheduling issues. Specifically,
Pennsic has become a massively complicated scheduling ordeal (especially
for those with various hats on), as there is an non-ending flow of
meetings, battles, commitments, guard duty, camp duties, etc etc etc.
That make it extremely difficult to say: "Yes I can teach a class at
time X on day Y".
This is complicated, by the need to get on the list by April 15th (3
months+ before Pennsic), when none of the rest of the schedule is known
yet. And yes, it's possible for you to make requests such as: "Not
during a battle". But when you have a much more complicated schedule,
it doesn't work out.
This means that it doesn't actually work out for people who aren't pure
A&S. The only people who, for example, in my Barony end up teaching,
are those who are 100% A&S, with no other commitments. With the April
15th deadline, well if you miss that deadline, then you aren't in the
book and people won't find you.
Which leads to:
> The only change in class attendance was when they switched from signup2. Student Registration
> lists to first-come/first-serve for limited-size classes, and that was
> over 5 years ago.
You are correct, this was the only change, and honestly, that change
was needed, because the previous method was, shall we say, full of it's
But the current system appears to have broken down as well. There were
numerous reported incidents this year to me (as well as a few I
experieced myself) with the system.
First of all, there were a number of classes that didn't bother to list
a limit. But when you showed up, suddenly, there was a limit. I saw
this happen to 3 classes myself, and heard of many others.
Secondly, for those with limits, quite often you had to show up 30
minutes, or earlier beforehand, to get into the class. This meant that
you couldn't attend a class beforehand. Also that you had to just stand
and wait for long periods in the sun. And the lack of an 'official'
system for determining who were 'the first'. Often meant that people
who showed up 'late', got in, while people there earlier didn't, just
because of how they determined who was really there first. Those who
were pushy, get in, while those nice, don't.
Third, there were issues of teachers, because of the '1 hour 1 hour
1hour' scheduling, not having time to transition from one classroom to
another smoothly. So that's where the mess (mentioned above) happens.
What's worse is that I saw some situations where a teacher decided on
the fly to move a class (that had a limit), to another classroom,
because they were impatient waiting for the teacher before to end (when
they still had 10 minutes left). And not telling everyone. So people
who were correctly in the right classroom, ahead of time, didn't get
All these things together, semi-constantly happening. Have ended up
frustrating many of the attendees, who try to show up, constantly
finding classes full, moved, unannounced limits, etc.
> Plus, with two exceptions all the class tents now face the same road forI agree, the layout this year was AMAZING!
> the first time, so you don't have to run a 3-block circuit to find your
> class tent when running late. A *big* improvement in layout!
Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust, OP - Baron Highland Foorde - Atlantia
http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
I am sure there are a few bad eggs out there. But remember peers are people too. Yes we have been recognized that we are models of what a scathen shouldAug 13 42 of 42View SourceI am sure there are a few bad eggs out there. But remember peers are people too. Yes we have been "recognized" that we are models of what a scathen should be. We have sworn to uphold the ideas and traditions of the society. But, We have our bad days. Its hard to be chivalrous when someone tells malicious stories or spreads out and out lies about us, stabs us in the back, and sometimes when things just don't go right. We get angry and frustrated with things that happen in life. We are expected to "play" at a higher level, but what happens when your the autocrat for the event, and the feastacrat doesn't show up and your other two major helpers got into a fight, one just left, its an hour before feast and no food is on site and no one seems to know where it's at or even if its been bought. Inters now a 5 year acquaintance introducing someone interested in woodworking to you THE woodworking laurel. Your response, however gracious, may be interpreted as snooty, or unapproachable. Forgive us a little. There are a few of us who would make a loud "pop!" when our heads are extracted from out you know whats, but you still get to choose who you to talk to and associate with. None of us are perfect. We are all flawed. But we all love the SCA and hopefully are trying to make it a better place.
On 8/11/2013 11:15 PM, Rachel Stallings wrote:
I have run into one of each personally and people I have known have have also run into it and if you go on Facebook there is a page specifically for people who are trying to become artisans and they relate their personal stories. That is where I got the information.On Aug 11, 2013 10:17 PM, "Helen Schultz" <helen.schultz@...> wrote:
I’ve got to chime in a bit here. Your last comments about “stories” worries me a bit. I think most of them are just that… stories. I’m not a Laurel for woodworking, but a Laurel is a Laurel, no matter their chosen field. A part of our pledge to the Crown is to keep teaching. Also, when we are looking at someone in the Laurel Circle, how they conduct themselves and pass on their knowledge is key to whether or not we recommend elevation. I don’t think I have ever in my 29 years in the SCA (and 19 years as a Laurel) encountered a snooty Laurel or Brass Hat. I have, perhaps, just been really lucky, but I tend to doubt it. I get people coming up to me after I have taught a class and tell me how much they enjoyed the class and that I was not intimidating at all. This made me very happy, because I strive to be the same person I was before I was elevated, just more knowledgeable now <grin>. I think Master Avery is also not a heck of a lot different than he was before his elevation, personality-wise… and I am a bit awed by his knowledge base with wood (as mine is so modern and fragmentary).
But, I can say this type of Peer-fear is also prevalent in mundane life. I spent 20 years in the Air Force, the first 5.5 years as an enlisted carpenter, and the remaining years as an officer behind a desk. I remember being on fairly friendly terms with high ranking officers (like the Base and Wing Commanders) when I was a carpenter, and my own father being totally surprised I had the guts to talk to them as though they were normal people. People just have to learn that Peers are people just like they are… we all put on pants the same way; one leg at a time <grin>.
I do like your thoughts about prominently posting levels in classes… this is something we tend to forget to do from time to time. The same applies to some Kingdoms’ A&S criteria (my own Midrealm is a problem here, too), there should be judging based on experience levels, not just one for everyone. Beginners are not going to approach a project the same as an intermediate or advanced artisan.
Rachel, I don’t think you stepped on any toes, but I think you did inadvertently point out one of the saddest failings of human beings… we tend to believe nasty stories and rumors rather and try to find the truth of the matter. <sigh>
Katarina Helene von Schoenborn, OL
Wanted to offer an opinion...
Personally, I would feel less intimidated about asking a non-Laurel questions than I do a Laurel.
Also, there is a period correct (approx 14th century, I think) tourney fence that I think you could make into an hour class for a single section of fence (even for a beginner like me). Instead of having everyone haul home a single section of fence you could try to find a sponsor (group, or a horseback rider or simply an interested party)to buy the materials for....say 10 to 14 students and the sponsor keeps the fence, but everyone in the group goes home with a usable skill, and keeps all the space in their car for packing all the stuff they bought with them. I would really like to see classes marked for Complete Novice, Novice, Beginner that knows how to sand, (and/or stain, or use a hand brace). that way I know that the class is in my skill level and I don't have to worry about feeling overwhelmed or wasting the instructor's time (by needing too much of his or her class time) I would like a class that it's okay for me to be a rank beginner who is really afraid to start off with out any kind of safety net. (I'm a worry-wort, in case you cant tell.) I think that as far as elevation goes a major criteria should be the individual's attitude and willingness to teach and be supportive. The stories about Laurel Snooty-pants or Brass Hat So and So having been hateful about a first effort is intimidating, and a bit worrisome to beginners like me.
Also a class on finding documentation, and ensuring it's authenticity would work for all A&S not just woodworking.
Okay, sorry for the verbal diarrhea, and hopefully I didn't step on any toes.
I hope you have a great day!