I am slightly puzzled by the statement in VT48:32, note 19:
"In both of the Sindarin forms, _duinen_ and _dannen_, the original
C.E. suffix _-mê_ has presumably been replaced by S. _nen_ 'water'
(e.g. as in _Bruinen_ 'Loudwater', LR:200)."
I wonder whether the parenthetical comment about _Bruinen_ applies to
the second part of the sentence only (i.e. that _Bruinen_ 'Loudwater'
just occurs to end with _nen_ 'water') or rather to the whole sentence
(i.e. that _Bruinen_ would also possibly be a S. word where an
original _-mê_ in C.E. was replaced by _nen_ -- thus implying some
derivation such as _bruinen_ < _nen_ repl. _-me_ < _*bruime_ < *BRUY +
I haven't found any evidence for the latter case, but as the former is
quite obvious(*) and not really necessary to understand _duinen_ and
_dannen_ ... So I just asked myself what the editor exactly had in
mind when he wrote this note. Could he clarify how the note should
Actually, this question interests me as I have never found across my
readings any satisfying explanation for _bruinen_ (except, perhaps, to
deduce _*brui_ as a possible adjective 'loud', possibly including S.
_-ui_ as adjectival ending, from former -*(V)ya_ -- but this would
still be very hypothetical and inconclusive).
(*) If the first reading of the note was implied, we know other river
names ending with _-nen_, which would perhaps have made better examples
as the first element is less obscure (or is at least interpretable):
_Carnen_ 'redwater' and _Harnen_ *'south-water', both attested in the
[I cited the form _Bruinen_ 'Loudwater' in note 19 in VT48:32 merely
to provide an example of S. _nen_ 'water' used as the second element
in a compound; I did NOT intend to suggest that _nen_ in _Bruinen_
replaced earlier _-mê_. Evidently my wording of this note was less clear
than it might have been, and I regret any potential confusion this may
As Didier notes, the first element in _Bruinen_ might be an adjective
*_brui_ 'loud', ending in the common Sindarin adj. suffix _-ui_ (see
VT42:10 for the etymology of this suffix). It seems to me that S.
*_brui_ is probably related to the second element of Q. _Ulumúri_,
name of the great horns of Ulmo (S:27, X:202), in which *_múri_ is
probably 'horns'. The root could be reconstructed as *MUR- (referring
to loud or low sounds), with CE *_murûya_ (stressed on the _û_) >
*_m'rûya_ > S. *_brui_ 'loud'. For S. _br-_ < *_mr-_, compare *_morókô_
'bear' > Q. _morko_, N. _brôg_ (V:374).
The Goldogrin verb _mul-, mum_ 'low, bellow' (PE11:58), along with
the related noun _mû_'ox' and its feminine forms _mûs_ 'cow' and _muir_
'heifer', may be the conceptual antecedents of the root *MUR- proposed
above. -- PHW]