--- In lambengolmor@y..., "G. Dyke" <gordon.dyke@b...> wrote:
> This is an effect that also happens in some more "archaic" tenses like
> the German subjunctive: which has forms only for the auxiliary and modal
> verbs (and for some strange reason the verb "to know") all the other
> verbs having this tense formed with the assistance of a the modal
This is not entirely correct, sorry!
1. The subjunctive is not a tense, it has forms in all tenses.
2. There are two subjuntives in German.
3. Both have basic forms (without auxiliary verbs) for all verbs, but
some of them may coincide with other verb forms.
Let's concentrate on subjunctive 2 (expressing wishes, irreal
Example: "singen" (sing). It's a strong verb, past tense "er sang"
(3. sg.), past participle "gesungen" (that's called ablaut). The
subjunctive (present tense) would be formed by umlaut mutation of the
stem vowel in past tense: "er sänge".
This rule was adopted for the less ancient weak verbs, forming past
tense with suffix "-t(e)(n)", even for some without ablaut:
brauchen -> er brauchte -> er bräuchte.
However, there's a whole class of verbs where the forms coincide with
past tense, because umlaut mutation is impossible (stem vowel "i/ie"
or umlaut in past tense). In other cases, the umlaut mutated forms
were abandoned for historical reasons ("wöllte"), or ancient strong
forms were replaced by weak forms: "fragen" (ask) has past
tense "fragte" instead of "frug" now, and the subjunctive 2 would
be "früge", not "*frägte".
In all those cases, the subjunctive coincides with forms of past
tense, and where this could lead to ambiguity, the construction with
an auxiliary verb ("fragen" -> "würde fragen") was introduced.
This leads to the consequence that the original forms of the
subjunctive are almost out of usage in vernacular now, replaced by
the auxiliary construction even when it isn't necessary.
They still exist in correct, literary German, however (listen to the
news in tv :-): "Ich wünschte, Du kämest" (I wished you came).
Since it is the continuation of an old, natural trend towards weak,
analytical construction, the subjunctive will probably vanish in the
standard language, too, whether one likes it or not (I don't :-).
There's a question connected with ablaut in past tense related to
nasal infixion: "gehen" (go) -> "er ging". The other direction would
be "denken" (think) -> "er dachte", cf. "Gedanke" (thought).
Since one would only expect another vowel here, this is an indication
for ancient nasal vowel, changing into "in/en/an" later. Such nasal
vowels remained in some other Indo-European languages (Polish), they
aren't a mere hypothesis.
Now nasal infixion plays an important role in Quenya. Is there any
hint at the former existence of nasal vowels in primitive Elvish?
(this was my first, never answered question in the Elfling list).
[I'm allowing this post, because it is instructive to consider these
mechanisms, but this is getting rather far afield, both from the original
topic and from Eldarin. I'd also like to ask Hans to repose his final
question in a separate post, with a new topic description. Carl]