Randall & James,
I wonder when any of us are going to call a spade a spade here. Barbara
Theiring's material is as bonkers as I am, IMHO. ( It takes one to know
one?). Her book is an embarrassment to scholarship, but nobody wants to say
Certainly those people used Pesher, and more power to Theiring for flagging
it, (that case is convincing,) but in my opinion it is just as bonkers an
approach now as it was then. Yet she exercises it ! You see what you
want/expect to see. It's just so much "reading in". I see it as a historical
curiousity. I am reminded of rabbinical lore where the contents of a few
lines of the Torah are made pregnant with "significant" meaning. "This
signifies..." What follows is usually a significant departure from the text
or any reasonable reality. This once passed for scholarship. It is still
revered as such, apparently. I sure don't see any Pesher in the GOT.
Equally, I would look askance at Burton L. Mack's material. In my view it is
just not reliable. Many of his Q sayings have Markan parallels. Some of his
Q sayings are only supported by Luke not Matthew. This violates the major
criteria or how we arrive at a Q saying. His parallels with Thomas are an
unmitigated disaster. There are SO many more. I'll eat my hat, if this is a
reliable scholarly work. ( Ketchup please). It follows that his
speculations, based on HIS Q should be taken with a grain of salt, if not
So, there you have it. Some significant authors of our time on this subject
cannot be trusted to have done the work they implicitly or explicitly claim
to have done.
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
----- Original Message -----
From: "docgroove1017" <docgroove1017@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:02 PM
Subject: [GTh] Re: Five, Two and One: that is fascinating Randall
> I have written a book,of sorts. It is available free in the other
> Gospel of Thomas/Yahoo discussion group's "Files" section.
> Yes, I have Barbara Thiering's book, _Jesus and the Riddle of the
> Dead Sea Scrolls_ a bit far out, but who knows?
> Randall E. Wilson
> --- In gthomas@y..., "goshenzoan" <goshenzoan@y...> wrote:
> > You know, I've read books about the Naasenes and I've studied
> > Gnosticism in many lights, but never have I seen those subtexts.
> > Could you refer me to books which have been written concerning these
> > concepts? If not, then Randall, you SHOULD write a book about this!!
> > Have you ever studied Barbara Thiering's approach to the Pesher and
> > its "subtext of time and dates" in the Gospels? If not, I think the
> > Pesher techniques would be a wonderful addition to this "Gnostic
> > math" you've stumbled upon.
> > This is a good group. I can't wait to see what else we'll study.
> > James M. Rogers