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• ## Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

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• Under 1%. You didn t answer me. What is the formula for power in terms of ft./s? And ft.-lb./s is not torque. You never took a class in your life I ll bet.
Message 1 of 23 , Aug 31, 2012
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Under 1%.  You didn't answer me.  What is the formula for power in terms of ft./s?  And ft.-lb./s is not torque.  You never took a class in your life I'll bet.

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Thu, August 30, 2012 7:39:52 PM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

 Aut, 1% power you say is all I will get out of this machine. Then please tell me what happens to that 8,680,000 foot Lbs. per second of Torque that this machine creates from that 30 HP worth of air? Andy
• ... From: Adrian Cerny Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System To: Autymn D. C.
Message 2 of 23 , Sep 1, 2012
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Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System
To: "Autymn D. C." <lysdexia@...>
Date: Saturday, September 1, 2012, 7:14 AM

Aut,

# Torque

In physics, torque can be thought of informally as "rotational force". Torque is measured in units of newton metres, and its symbol is τ. The concept of torque, also called moment or couple, originated with the work of Archimedes on levers. The rotational analogues of force, mass and acceleration are torque, moment of inertia and angular acceleration respectively. The force applied to a lever, multiplied by its distance from the lever's fulcrum, is the torque. For example, a force of three newtons applied two metres from the fulcrum exerts the same torque as one newton applied six metres from the fulcrum. This assumes the force is in a direction at right angles to the straight lever. More generally, one may define torque as the cross product:
where
F is the vector of force.
r is the vector from the axis of rotation to the point on which the force is acting.

Aut,
In my mathematical comparison.

r is 20 feet as in my comparison the wheel is 40 feet in diameter.
F is all the accumulative lifting power of all that air inside those air-chambers and is at 90 degrees to the wheels power take off shaft.

Thus F is equal to  W x AV x #B
Where W is equal to the weight of one cubic foot of water, 62#, as the lifting force of air IN water is directly related to the weight of the water it displaces.
It's directly related but not the same.  Your motor is driven off what is driven off the watter, so take their smaller ratio of mass or momenta and it'd be miniscule.  If you had a paddlewheel to harness the falling momentum, more of the 62# would be applied to the motor.
AV is the average volume of air in the air-chambers, as air expands is it rises in water due to a lowering of the pressure of the surrounding water.
#B is the number of air charged air-chambers engaged at any one moment.

Thus in my comparison we have;  62# x 10 x 700 = F   or  434,000 pounds of lifting force.
And as r is equal to 20 feet we have    434,000 x 20 = 8,680,000 of what the world calls 'torque' or T.
If you mean the bulk grows by 10 times, that has nothing to do with F; whatever F_PV is is included in F.
Now many people like to use the formula    T x RPM / 5252 = HP to convert Torque into horsepower.

As we now know T is equal, in this comparison, to 8,680,000 pounds of Force.
The RPM is equal to Pi x D / feet per minute of rise, which is 60, as I restricted the speed of this wheel.  Thus 3.14 x 40 / 60 is about 2, or in other words it will take about 2 minutes to make 1 revolution of this wheel. Thus we have .5 RPM

Now we have 8,680,000 x .5 / 5252 = 826 HP as I said.
Your problem, besides the tenfold error, is that you can't grasp calculus.  The 62# work only at the start of the trip, and not even when the rotor is at 90 degrees.  You need to take the average lever arm between 0 and 180 degrees, which is the definite integral of the average of their sine over a semicircular function.  You can look up "mean of a function" on Wikipedia.  I can't find the time to do your work, so you can fudge the formula with 30# and 30°.

-Aut
Of course the air used in this comparison is still the 30 HP compressor that I provided factory specifications for.

If you have any more questions, please feel free to E

Andy
• ... Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System To: Autymn D. C. Date: Saturday, September 1, 2012,
Message 3 of 23 , Sep 1, 2012
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• Never said anything about its density. -Aut ________________________________ From: Adrian Cerny To: Autymn D. C.
Message 4 of 23 , Sep 3, 2012
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Never said anything about its density.

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Sat, September 1, 2012 4:37:47 PM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Aut,

" Its self-lift is the same (Newton); it can't lift another body the same (Newton and Coriolis). Subs need to adjust ballast for depth to be neutrally buoyant; they are open unlike your rotor. By the way, your 62# is only good for a depth of 1 foot; where your rotor starts it's much heavier "
Funny, I thought that water, as a fluid, could not compress and become 'heavier'. Te PSI may go up but the density will remain the same. Is this not the main principle behind Hydraulics?
Andy

From: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Cc: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

• Pressure times area is heavier there, and something thinner would be shot up harder than near the surface. Why don t you know this? -Aut
Message 5 of 23 , Sep 9, 2012
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Pressure times area is heavier there, and something thinner would be shot up harder than near the surface.  Why don't you know this?

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Tue, September 4, 2012 5:25:01 AM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Aut,
"where your rotor starts it's much heavier " OK so what do you mean by this statement?
Andy
• oh, aut! you pretend to represent yourself so much as smart... why all these years you refuse to comment this stuff?
Message 6 of 23 , Sep 10, 2012
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oh, aut!
you pretend to represent yourself so much as smart...
why all these years you refuse to comment this stuff?
http://www.besslerwheel.com/murilo/index.html
can't you reach to a mechanic logic? hmm?
here is a real challenge, darling!
take care!
murilo

CC: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
From: lysdexia@...
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 20:15:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Pressure times area is heavier there, and something thinner would be shot up harder than near the surface.  Why don't you know this?

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Tue, September 4, 2012 5:25:01 AM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Aut,
"where your rotor starts it's much heavier " OK so what do you mean by this statement?
Andy

• first question... What causes the spacing to expand and stay that way? I don t see any stop or such to do that. Though I was thinking, maybe you could switch
Message 7 of 23 , Sep 10, 2012
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first question...

What causes the spacing to expand and stay that way?
I don't see any "stop" or such to do that. Though I was
thinking, maybe you could switch magnets physically
to either attract or repulse.

From: murilo luciano filho <avalanchedrive@...>
Cc: "free_energy@yahoogroups.com" <free_energy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

oh, aut!
you pretend to represent yourself so much as smart...
why all these years you refuse to comment this stuff?
http://www.besslerwheel.com/murilo/index.html
can't you reach to a mechanic logic? hmm?
here is a real challenge, darling!
take care!
murilo

CC: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
From: lysdexia@...
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 20:15:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Pressure times area is heavier there, and something thinner would be shot up harder than near the surface.  Why don't you know this?

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Tue, September 4, 2012 5:25:01 AM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Aut,
"where your rotor starts it's much heavier " OK so what do you mean by this statement?
Andy

• first response: - you didn t look at it carefully. - so... take a look at file detail. as ever, take care! murilo To: avalanchedrive@hotmail.com CC:
Message 8 of 23 , Sep 10, 2012
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first response:
- you didn't look at it carefully.
- so... take a look at file detail.
as ever, take care!
murilo

To: avalanchedrive@...
CC: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
From: jaemsjohn@...
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:36:16 -0700
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

first question...

What causes the spacing to expand and stay that way?
I don't see any "stop" or such to do that. Though I was
thinking, maybe you could switch magnets physically
to either attract or repulse.

From: murilo luciano filho <avalanchedrive@...>
Cc: "free_energy@yahoogroups.com" <free_energy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

oh, aut!
you pretend to represent yourself so much as smart...
why all these years you refuse to comment this stuff?
http://www.besslerwheel.com/murilo/index.html
can't you reach to a mechanic logic? hmm?
here is a real challenge, darling!
take care!
murilo

CC: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
From: lysdexia@...
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 20:15:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Pressure times area is heavier there, and something thinner would be shot up harder than near the surface.  Why don't you know this?

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Tue, September 4, 2012 5:25:01 AM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Aut,
"where your rotor starts it's much heavier " OK so what do you mean by this statement?
Andy

• That s not the only pressure. A free-body diaghram would show the bulk of watter above and its downward pressure (huge), the bulk below and its downward
Message 9 of 23 , Sep 10, 2012
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That's not the only pressure.  A free-body diaghram would show the bulk of watter above and its downward pressure (huge), the bulk below and its downward pressure and normal upward pressure (These cancel to rest.), the float and its downward pressure (near 0) and normal upward pressure (huge).  Therefore the float shoots up by the pressure above.

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Mon, September 10, 2012 5:51:04 AM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

As the higher PSI is from all directions, it cancels itself out. Only real effect is a smaller air-chamber size as noted.
Andy

From: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Cc: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Pressure times area is heavier there, and something thinner would be shot up harder than near the surface.  Why don't you know this?

-Aut
• You wrote some BS about the expansion s PV at more than what was supplied by the input. -Aut ________________________________ From: Adrian Cerny
Message 10 of 23 , Sep 10, 2012
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You wrote some BS about the expansion's PV at more than what was supplied by the input.

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Mon, September 10, 2012 5:29:46 PM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

If I am understanding you correctly, you think my machine will work as I described it.
Andy

From: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Cc: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

That's not the only pressure.  A free-body diaghram would show the bulk of watter above and its downward pressure (huge), the bulk below and its downward pressure and normal upward pressure (These cancel to rest.), the float and its downward pressure (near 0) and normal upward pressure (huge).  Therefore the float shoots up by the pressure above.

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Mon, September 10, 2012 5:51:04 AM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

As the higher PSI is from all directions, it cancels itself out. Only real effect is a smaller air-chamber size as noted.
Andy

From: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Cc: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Pressure times area is heavier there, and something thinner would be shot up harder than near the surface.  Why don't you know this?

-Aut

• I ll quote your other email to me: PV? If you don t know what PV is, and neither P nor PV here is power, then there s no hope in your maths. It doesn t
Message 11 of 23 , Sep 10, 2012
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I'll quote your other email to me: "PV?"

If you don't know what PV is, and neither P nor PV here is power, then there's no hope in your maths.  It doesn't matter if you get another power; everything does this.

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Mon, September 10, 2012 7:23:40 PM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

IF by what you wrote that I get more power OUT than I put IN, then yes. That is what the math says.
Andy

From: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Cc: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

You wrote some BS about the expansion's PV at more than what was supplied by the input.

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Mon, September 10, 2012 5:29:46 PM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

If I am understanding you correctly, you think my machine will work as I described it.
Andy
• I still don t see any ratchet or mechanism to keep them apart. I see how your gear can push them apart but what keeps them apart?
Message 12 of 23 , Sep 11, 2012
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I still don't see any ratchet or mechanism to keep them apart.
I see how your "gear" can push them apart but what keeps them apart?

From: murilo luciano filho <avalanchedrive@...>
To: jaemsjohn@...
Cc: "free_energy@yahoogroups.com" <free_energy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: to J - RE: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System [2 Attachments]

first response:
- you didn't look at it carefully.
- so... take a look at file detail.
as ever, take care!
murilo

To: avalanchedrive@...
CC: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
From: jaemsjohn@...
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:36:16 -0700
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

first question...

What causes the spacing to expand and stay that way?
I don't see any "stop" or such to do that. Though I was
thinking, maybe you could switch magnets physically
to either attract or repulse.

From: murilo luciano filho <avalanchedrive@...>
Cc: "free_energy@yahoogroups.com" <free_energy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

oh, aut!
you pretend to represent yourself so much as smart...
why all these years you refuse to comment this stuff?
http://www.besslerwheel.com/murilo/index.html
can't you reach to a mechanic logic? hmm?
here is a real challenge, darling!
take care!
murilo

CC: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
From: lysdexia@...
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 20:15:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Pressure times area is heavier there, and something thinner would be shot up harder than near the surface.  Why don't you know this?

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Tue, September 4, 2012 5:25:01 AM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Aut,
"where your rotor starts it's much heavier " OK so what do you mean by this statement?
Andy

• dear, pls take a look at this: - a chain corner falls and when in touch to the hook will start to turn and OPEN - at this instant a small BAR will fall and
Message 13 of 23 , Sep 11, 2012
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dear,
pls take a look at this:
- a chain corner falls and when in touch to the hook will start to turn and OPEN
- at this instant a small BAR will fall and form a TRIANGLE
- this triangle (or all other triangles) will respond to your question
It's all there!

To: avalanchedrive@...
CC: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
From: jaemsjohn@...
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:34:06 -0700
Subject: Re: to J - RE: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

I still don't see any ratchet or mechanism to keep them apart.
I see how your "gear" can push them apart but what keeps them apart?

From: murilo luciano filho <avalanchedrive@...>
To: jaemsjohn@...
Cc: "free_energy@yahoogroups.com" <free_energy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: to J - RE: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System [2 Attachments]

first response:
- you didn't look at it carefully.
- so... take a look at file detail.
as ever, take care!
murilo

To: avalanchedrive@...
CC: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
From: jaemsjohn@...
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 10:36:16 -0700
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

first question...

What causes the spacing to expand and stay that way?
I don't see any "stop" or such to do that. Though I was
thinking, maybe you could switch magnets physically
to either attract or repulse.

From: murilo luciano filho <avalanchedrive@...>
Cc: "free_energy@yahoogroups.com" <free_energy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

oh, aut!
you pretend to represent yourself so much as smart...
why all these years you refuse to comment this stuff?
http://www.besslerwheel.com/murilo/index.html
can't you reach to a mechanic logic? hmm?
here is a real challenge, darling!
take care!
murilo

CC: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
From: lysdexia@...
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 20:15:03 -0700
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Pressure times area is heavier there, and something thinner would be shot up harder than near the surface.  Why don't you know this?

-Aut

To: Autymn D. C. <lysdexia@...>
Sent: Tue, September 4, 2012 5:25:01 AM
Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System

Aut,
"where your rotor starts it's much heavier " OK so what do you mean by this statement?
Andy

• ... and... ... and... this twice fast speed is reached in the perimeter, after expansion is done... about equal force product on both sides, no trouble if
Message 14 of 23 , Sep 13, 2012
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... and...
... and... this twice fast speed is reached in the perimeter, after expansion is done...
about 'equal force product' on both sides, no trouble if set is 'hold' or suspended!
any other question?  8)

Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2012 01:11:31 -0700
From: flytch@...
Subject: RE: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System
To: avalanchedrive@...

 no chalenge here at all... one side would have to move twice as fast as the other... speed and the number of pieces would equal on both sides and it would stop... --- On Mon, 9/10/12, murilo luciano filho wrote:From: murilo luciano filho Subject: RE: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating SystemTo: "Autymn" , adriancerny@...Cc: "free_energy@yahoogroups.com" Date: Monday, September 10, 2012, 9:10 AM oh, aut!you pretend to represent yourself so much as smart...why all these years you refuse to comment this stuff?http://www.besslerwheel.com/murilo/index.html can't you reach to a mechanic logic? hmm?here is a real challenge, darling!take care!muriloTo: adriancerny@...CC: free_energy@yahoogroups.comFrom: lysdexia@...Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 20:15:03 -0700Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System Pressure times area is heavier there, and something thinner would be shot up harder than near the surface.  Why don't you know this?-AutFrom: Adrian Cerny To: Autymn D. C. Sent: Tue, September 4, 2012 5:25:01 AMSubject: Re: [free_energy] Re: Pneumaticelectric Power Generating System Aut,"where your rotor starts it's much heavier " OK so what do you mean by this statement?    Andy
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