Just belatedly wrapping up a few loose ends from the thread I
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Måns Björkman <mansb@h...> wrote:
>--- In email@example.com, "anonmoos" <anonmoos@i...> wrote:
>>--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Måns Björkman <mansb@h...> wrote:
>> Arabic-speakers tend to have somewhat conflicted feelings about the
>> diacritics of the current Arabic-alphabet orthography -- almost all
>> such diacritics (other than the basic consonant dots) are optional,
>> and many Arabs prefer to use as few diacritics as possible (even
>> though using diacritics is more intellectual and refined). For
>> that reason, it would be highly inadvisable for the Tengwar
>> orthography to use _more_ diacritics than the current Arabic-script
>> orthography. So since long vowels are written with non-diacritic
>> letters in the current Arabic orthography, they must be written
>> with non-diacritic letters in Tengwar (though there are other
>> reasons why short vowels should _not_ be written with non-diacritic
> I see! With that in mind, your representing short vowels with tehtar
> and long vowels with tengwar (a "half full" mode?) makes a lot of
Thanks. The thing is that a large number of native Arabic-speakers,
would be at a loss if asked to supply short vowels to many written
Arabic words, since the current Arabic-script orthography (as
generally used) provides no information about most short vowels, and
since the various spoken Arabic dialects are radically divergent from
the "classical" standard Arabic language used in writing. (Not to
mention the 'i`rab short vowels of noun case endings and verb mood
endings, which are theoretically still part of standard written
Arabic, but which have basically disappeared from almost all forms of
actively spoken language, outside of a few very narrow formal contexts
such as Qur'an recitation.)
For these reasons, making short vowels an obligatory part of the
orthography (instead of something indicated by means of optional
diacritics) would be an encumbrance to any halfway-realistic Tengwar
mode for modern standard Arabic...
Also, a long [u] vowel alternates in some cases with a [w] consonant,
and a long [i] vowel with a [y] consonant (as seen in the
tengwar-arabic-table8.gif image on my website), which is another
reason to write the sounds with related symbols.
>--- In email@example.com, "j_mach_wust" <j_mach_wust@y...>
>>--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "anonmoos" <anonmoos@i...> wrote:
>>> I had to coin a few new Tengwar letters for the Arabic language
>>> (as Tolkien did when he wrote Old English in Tengwar).
>> Did he really? There is a special &-sign, and the tehtar are used
>> in a special fashion. But that's about it.
> Well, there's the tengwar for HW, SC and HT, of course. One might
> argue that they are all ligatures, but on the other hand they are
> also very easy to regard as distinct tengwar.
All the "new" Tengwar for my mode (except for the long carrier symbol
with added "J"-tail) are basically the same -- they're of obvious
composite origin, and can be regarded more or less as obligatory
> Apparently, the mode by AnonMoos is intended to be "orthographic" to
> some extent.
It's neither strictly phonemic nor strictly orthographic -- but it's
quasi-orthographic to the degree that almost every feature of current
Arabic-script orthography has a correspondence to SOME feature or
features of the Tengwar orthography (though there is not always a
simple uniform one-to-one correspondence between Arabic-script
graphemes and Tengwar graphemes). The only real exception is the
Arabic-script _sukuun_ diacritic, which is simply eliminated in
Tengwar Arabic mode.