... but ... could ... an ... much ... family. If ... rather than ... [AK] First, I found that the verb is to cover, to build , future andMessage 1 of 14 , Jul 4, 2006View Source--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
> On 2006-07-03 17:04, Abdullah Konushevci wrote:
> > *H3 is described phontecally as a rounded velar fricative [XW],
> > I doubt as well that /b/ in <brinjë> as well as <v> in <vrap>could
> > as well be a prefix, but rounded character of *H3, followed byan
> > resonant leaves a space to doubt of their laryngeal origin.
> > Nevertheless, I just started to treat words in *r-. It was just
> > assumption. But, to not accept that Alb. <brinjë> that has somuch
> > cognate in Germanic languages and in Slavic, is very strange.family. If
> The 'rib' word has likely cognates in Greek -- the verb <erépto:>
> 'cover, provide with a roof' (*h1rebH-je/o-) and its lexical
> there ever was an initial laryngeal in this root, it was *h1rather than
First, I found that the verb is <erepho> 'to cover, to build',
future <erepso> and <erepsomai>, aor. <erepsa>; erepsimos 'belonging
to roof'. So, for sure, we have *H1rebh-o in verbal root.
Initial /o/ is only found in "Rasmussen derivatives" with the
> O-fix, <óropHos, oropHé:> 'cover, roof' and must be due to Gk.vowel
> assimilation, as in <odoús> and <ónoma>. It's far from obviousthat the
> Albanian word belongs to the same etymon at all.[AK]
But, that is to be waiting, due to e-o Ablaut in verb and noun stem,
noun stem to be *H3robh-o > Greek he orophe and ho orophos 'roof',
especially ho orophos 'rod, cane' that cover the roofs.
The pattern of
> assimilation in the alleged "labial + *n" sequence is alsosuspect,
> given that *-pn- yields Alb. /m/, as in <gjumë> 'sleep'.[AK]
I agree that sequence -bhn-/-pn- has as result Albanian -m-, like in
gjumë 'sleep', amë 'river', lumë 'river' etc., but if it was
followed by back vowel /*o/. In case that this sequence is followed
by palatal glide /y/, like in mër-dhinj 'to freez' < *g'heim-yo, I
think that *H3r.bh-n-yeH2 > Alb. <brinjë> is far from obvious to
belong to this root, together with Greek erepho.
... Alb. ... Alb. ... ferre. ... root, ... present ... by *j. ... a ... *-pj-. ... ... *tHapH-. ... je/o- ... than ... From what I know, seMessage 1 of 14 , Jul 4, 2006View Source--- In email@example.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...>
> On 2006-07-04 00:19, Abdullah Konushevci wrote:
> > Really, but *bh > Greek ph: *bhH-n-yo > phainein 'to shine',
> > 'to do, to bring to light'; *bha-k'o > Greek phagos 'lentil',Alb.
> > <bathë> 'broad bean'; *bher- > Greek pherein, Alb. bie, Lat.ferre.
> What do you take me for, Abdullah? :) *bH does give /pH/ in this
> cf. the derivatives I quoted, such as <óropHos>. However, in thepresent
> tense of the verb 'to cover' (*h1rebH-je/o-) the *bH was followedby *j.
> The pre-Greek sequence *-pHj- developed regularly into /-pt-/ (viaa
> cluster with a prehistoric affricate), merging with the reflex of*-pj-.
> As an independent illustration, consider <tápHos> 'grave' vs.<tHapto:>
> 'bury'. Both these words derive from preforms with *dH..bH- >*tHapH-.
> In the former, Grassmann's Law applies; in the latter (another *-je/o-
> present stem) it doesn't, since the aspiration of the second stopthan
> disappeared in the process of palatalisation, which was earlier
> Grassmann's Law in Greek.From what I know, se my previous message, we have'nt here to deal at
all with ha-ha rule.
... Actually, both and are attested in Ancient Greek. The first is a simple thematic present, the second a *-je/o- stem. ... The root isMessage 1 of 14 , Jul 4, 2006View SourceOn 2006-07-04 09:30, Abdullah Konushevci wrote:
> First, I found that the verb is <erepho> 'to cover, to build',Actually, both <erépHo:> and <erépto:> are attested in Ancient Greek.
The first is a simple thematic present, the second a *-je/o- stem.
> future <erepso> and <erepsomai>, aor. <erepsa>; erepsimos 'belongingThe root is *h1rebH-, right? So far, so good.
> to roof'. So, for sure, we have *H1rebh-o in verbal root.
> Initial /o/ is only found in "Rasmussen derivatives" with theThere is no such thing as *h1/*h3 ablaut. *h1 remains *h1 whatever
>> O-fix, <óropHos, oropHé:> 'cover, roof' and must be due to Gk.
>> assimilation, as in <odoús> and <ónoma>. It's far from obvious
> that the
>> Albanian word belongs to the same etymon at all.
> But, that is to be waiting, due to e-o Ablaut in verb and noun stem,
> noun stem to be *H3robh-o > Greek he orophe and ho orophos 'roof',
> especially ho orophos 'rod, cane' that cover the roofs.
happens to the root vowel. To be honest, I'm not quite sure what should
be expected in a root like *h1rebH- with an O-fix as the regular
development. Jens claims that before a laryngeal or *r the O-fix
remained a prefix and metathesis was blocked. But what about a complex
onset with _both_ a laryngeal and a rhotic? Perhaps Jens will find the
time to comment on this. However, what seems to me to be at least a
possibility is metathesis with loss of the initial laryngeal, i.e.
*O-h1r[&]bHo- > *robHo-, not unlike *O-h2w[&]lh1no- > *wolno- (Jens's
own example). Gk. <óropHos> would then contain a genuine prothetic
vowel, with the same quality as the root vowel, added to avoid a
word-initial /r/. The analogy of erépto: ~ erépHo: (where the first
vowel seems to echo the root vocalism) may have played a role.
As an alternative explanation, we might simply assume *h1robHos,
analogical after *tómh1os etc., becoming *eropHos > oropHos by
assimilation. This, indeed, seems to be the mundane standard
explanation, though it's less clever than the one above :)