Under the terms of the covenants, is it a covenant violation for
churches and families to catechize using the Heidelberg Catechism? --
(not in the sense of rejecting the Westminster Catechisms)
--- In email@example.com
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Peter"
> <GrayPJ@c...> wrote:
> > Thanks for the help and I'm sorry for being delinquent in
> > to your post.
> No problem at all. If I can refresh your memory as well, I
> myself a novice, and believe that others are far more qualified to
> comment than myself. But I'll give it my best shot.
> > My trouble is finding a connection between Britain and present
> > America.... Your answers to my objections were sufficient so I
> > concede- at the time of the signing, the colonies were put under
> > the Covenant and up until 100 years ago the people were still.
> Ok, then I will not endeavor to prove that which has been conceded,
> that the American Colonies were under the Covenant when originally
> sworn. The article did place much emphasis on the British descent
> the American people, which is important, but not the only point.
> Covenant was a national covenant, and an ecclesiastical covenant.
> Our view is that America as a nation, and not simply as a
> of folks with English blood, is bound, and will be bound, until she
> ceases to exist. Why? Because if, as you concede, America was
> up until 100 years ago, then she still is bound, for she is still
> America, daughter of England. When it was time to lay the
> of this nation, and America rejected the establishment of a
> and Presbyterian Church, she did so sinfully, for she was bound by
> Covenant to do so. Likewise, the Churches in this nation which
> refuse to reform themselves according to the agreed upon standards,
> are refusing the Covenant as well.
> The following are some considerations taken from an article on
> Covenanting found here:
> 1. The Solemn League and Covenant was one vow in which the members
> the church and citizens of the state were bound inseparably, though
> distinctly; and whom any principle of the covenant binds, the whole
> binds; because it cannot be divided. "What God hath joined
> let no man put asunder."
> 2. As God is one party, the Covenanter who emigrates, is after
> emigration, still within the dominions of him "who is King of Kings
> and Lord of Lords." Those who have come into the United States,
> the taking of the covenants, are as really under the kingly
> of Christ, as they were in Great Britain; for he is "the Lord of
> whole earth."
> 3. The covenant of the British empire was renewed by the New-
> Puritan Pilgrims, in the year 1644, by which they and all their
> descendants became formally bound.
> 4. The colonies, at the time of entering into the Solemn League and
> Covenant, were an integral part of the British nation. They held
> their lands under the crown, and were governed by deputies of the
> throne, whom they acknowledged as their governors. The Boston
> renovation, demonstrates that they held themselves bound by the
> federal deed of the Lords and Commons, in 1643.
> 5. The old Congress of 1774, solemnly claimed for themselves, and
> the people of the colonies whom they represented "all the rights
> immunities of British Citizens." (See Marshall's Life of
> The most excellent part of their birthright and immunities, was,
> they inherited a title to the covenant blessings of their
> who entered into federal relations with the God of Israel. It may
> said in reply to this, that they did not intend to claim the
> birthright. It is admitted that they did not, and that in doing,
> they committed a great sin. Men often do things, when they do not
> understand their own transactions, as the Assyrian king fulfilled
> counsel of the Lord, although "he meant not so, nor did his heart
> think so." Isa. 10:7.
> 6. The land has been blessed remarkably in temporal good things,
> notwithstanding it "has deeply revolted;" as God showed favor to
> Israel even when grossly offending him, by their abominable
> idolatries. "To any nation," except Israel, "never he such favor
> afford." And we may say of our land, as David did of Israel, "Thou
> shewedst them favor." Psal. 44:3.
> 7. All nations are under the covenant made with Noah,
> they are dispersed over all the earth. All see the rainbowand all
> enjoy "summer and winter, cold and heat, seed time and harvest, day
> and night," in fulfillment of the covenant made with their common
> 8. The ten tribes, cast out into far countries, are still bound by
> their national covenant. The dispersed of Judah are also bound by
> same bond, dispersed as they are over Asia, Africa, Europe and
> America. "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall
> assemble the outcasts of Israel and the dispersed of Judah; to it
> shall the Gentiles seek, and his rest shall be glorious." Isa.
> God promises to be a little sanctuary to them in the lands whither
> they are scattered. "Thus saith the Lord God, although I have cast
> them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them
> among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in
> the countries where they shall come." Ezek. 11:6. They are farther
> remote from the land of their fathers' sepulchres, than we of this
> country, are from the British Isles; and yet the God of their
> Jacob, acknowledges their outward covenant, relation to him.
> 9. The people of Judah and Benjamin were not released from their
> covenant obligations, during their captivity in Babylon.
> 10. This is the doctrine of our Declaration and
> entered into by an individual or a community, continue binding
> those who enter into them, either personally, or by their
> representatives, so long as such persons live, unless the covenants
> have limited their duration to a certain period." (Reformation
> Principles, p. 107.). This doctrine is proved from Jer. 11:10, "The
> house of Israel, and the house of Judah, have broke, the covenant
> which I made with their fathers." The community of the British
> still exists, and many such persons still live, in the United
> whose fathers entered into the National Covenant of Scotland, and
> into "the Solemn League and Covenant of the three kingdoms of
> Scotland, England and Ireland."
> This is no more than a specimen of the ample testimony that might
> adduced to prove, both the perpetuity of the national covenants and
> their descending obligation. We trust no one will ask more to
> demonstrate that the ground which the Reformed Presbyterian church
> occupies has not been taken rashly.
> While under obligations so solemn, ratified by the most holy
> sanctions, endeared to us by the blood of our martyred fathers,
> of whom the world was not worthy,"and recorded in the archives of
> heaven, we must bear our testimony against a sinful nation, laden
> with iniquity, that with all the lights of divine truth, shining in
> her firmament for nearly two centuries, has neglected to recognize
> her duty, by "joining herself to the Lord in a perpetual covenant,
> not to be forgotten." O that the God of Israel may soon set the
> jewel of his covenant in our forehead, and make our nation "the
> of all lands." "He hath commanded his covenant forever; holy and
> reverend is his name." Psal. 111:9.
> The considerations above may be helpful in considering this issue
> the obligation of the Covenant upon the U.S..
> > My second question was about the practical consequences of being
> > legally bound to the SL&C. What are the benefits: Motivation as a
> > result of fear of breaking the 2nd commandment, a reminder of
> > Christian obligations?
> Do you mean the 3rd Commandment? Falsely swearing and covenant-
> breaking are violations of the 3rd Commandment. Of course, the
> things you mention are benefits. But the benefits envisioned in
> Covenant are the blessings of God on Church and State, peace in the
> nation, unity in faith and practice in all the Churches in the
> nation, removal of Popery and Prelacy, etc., etc.
> > What are the penalties for not recognizing
> > the Covenants legal force? Certainly you lose the two aforesaid
> > benefits. What else?
> "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that
> forget God."
> As a result of putting the Covenant behind our back, we see not
> but disunity, we see Popery running wild, the displeasure of God,
> Blessings to you, Peter.
> Where ya from?