Hha! Hey Charlie,
I don't know what I said in St. Croix, perhaps "crispy" at a kfc sure enough... I got a breaded chicken back. Better than soggy bread anyway. I haven't really kept tabs on Belize and Guatemala but it is a concern I should be more aware of.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org
, charles bruns <charbruns@...> wrote:
> Remember that Tulum is one of the late period Mayan cities (note fortifications) and existed to contact times.Â when there you were not allowed to step on anything except grass and the beach (superb).Â i got bitched out for sitting on a block of stone (chinga te, pindaroe).Â of course all thing change with enough money, which goes to show where these
folks are at - defending their proud traditions until paid off.Â i never went into Cancun, despising tourist traps and all-inclusives.Â prefered Puerto Morales as an authentic Mayan town.Â if a fellow named Goyo Morgan is still arround, he could take you (for cash) to real jungle indian communities and untouched (when i was there) pyramids, causeways, etc.Â the real stuff, complete, and illegal (unless you have money), though I believe the 'highly illegal' artifacts the people there have are made currently, though probably in the Yucatan and damn good copies.Â if you do go to PM (site of the car
> ferry to Cozumal), no I won't say anything.Â you might go there and find a Taco BellÂ (last time to Negril, Jamaica they had a Colonel Sanders with a big sign downtown - I cried)Â Anyway, I believe the 'star canoes' will come to the ruins on the highest ground on Cozumal.Â that is where my
Ottawa girlfriend and I plan to be 12/21/12.Â she said if they don't show up, I have to get a job when we get home.
> char bruns
> --- On Sat, 1/22/11, Susan <beldingenglish@...> wrote:
> From: Susan <beldingenglish@...>
> Subject: [ancient_waterways_society] I A Lapham survey + more on ancient Aztalan Mounds and origin of name
> To: email@example.com
> Date: Saturday, January 22, 2011, 1:23 PM
> Sent by a non-member observerÂ Â who does not have Posting privileges, this seems to be the origin of the name Aztalan to the once-pyramid shaped mound.Â Suggests perhaps
too names such as Tyranena Park (recently Tyranena Brewery!).Â I have seenÂ various spellings of TyranenaÂ when exploring shorelines,Â seas, and deep ceynote caves in the Yucatan Peninsula, near the Tulum ruins.Â (I am invited to a possibly week longÂ birthdayÂ party on 12-12-12 at the Tulum ruins viaÂ Â friends I met fromÂ all over the world when helping with the 2012 Prophets Conference in Cancun lastÂ winter. Travel prices will likely be dirtÂ 'cheap' because of public fear of 12-21-2012 disasters :)
> Â Also in the following twp links is the first mention I have seen of "Aztalan brick" and details indicatingÂ that most of what remain today are reconstructions.Â Fortunately, articles and web sites as the following, plus surveys, reports of professional investigations by multi-disciplinary teams ofÂ archaelogist, geologists, and others working
together will continue toÂ get toÂ larger, more comprehensive truths andÂ layers upon layers of cultureÂ often within manyÂ sites along significant ancient waterways.Â Â Â Over thousands rather than hundreds of years in time.Â Â Such as the Miami Circle-Bay of Biscayne...and Aztalan.Â One of the sites shows photos of the Princess Mound, remains, and further complications surrounding this site.Â I continue to be indebted to Jim Stevens for his letter and will keep it close to me.Â Thank you Steve Steigerwald.Â Please feel
> free to post here as I am only an infrequent visitor to Aztlalan and know only what I hear, see, find on the Internet in making interconnections with people, places and resources which may shedÂ light onto not just theÂ more recent historic past, butÂ very ancient past.Â Which to me seemsÂ at least
asÂ navigatable, and sometimes astoundinglyÂ remarkable when considering surveys andÂ evidences of brilliantÂ mathematicalÂ patterns, alignments, and design that links 'heaven and earth' to that of humankind.
> From Wisconsin Geneological Trails group:Â Â Â http://genealogytrails.com/wis/jefferson/Aztalan.html
Â Â Â Â and from the Friends of Aztalan State Park group: http://www.orgsites.com/wi/aztalan/_pgg9.php3
Â (Steve Steigerwald-is the latter one ofÂ yourÂ links?)
> In '1836, N. F. Hyer committed the first rough survey of the site, publishing the discovery in the Milwaukie Advertiser of January 1837. According to Lapham:Â
> "The name
Aztalan was given to this place by Mr. Hyer, because, according to Humboldt, the Aztecs, or ancient inhabitants of Mexico, had a tradition that their ancestors came from a country at the north, which they called Aztalan; and the possibility that these may have been remains of their occupancy, suggested the idea of restoring the name. It is made up of two Mexican words, atl, water, and an, near; and the country was probably so named from its proximity to large bodies of water. Hence the natural inference that the country about these great lakes was the ancient residence of the Aztecs."
> and from the second account:
> Nathaniel F. Hyer gave the name "Aztalan" to the site the pioneers called the "Ancient City." The truncated pyramidal mounds within a stockade on the banks of the Crawfish River seemed to be the site described in an Aztec legend. Reported by Baron Alexander von Humboldt, an early student of Indian antiquities, the legend said
the Aztecs had come from a land by flowing waters far to the north of their Mexican home.
> Hyer wrote that "We are determined to preserve these ruins from being ruined." However, in 1838, President Martin Van Buren refused a request by Massachusetts statesman Edward Everett to withdraw the site from public sale, and the site was sold for $22. In the following years, the surface was plowed, the mounds were leveled for easier farming, pottery shards and "Aztalan brick" were hauled away by the wagonload to fill in potholes in township roads, and souvenir hunters took numerous artifacts.
> Anyone visiting the site now needs to consider the possibilites again of layers of peoples visiting, dwelling, constructing these sites, as well as the admirable reconstruction and preservation efforts.Â Aside from the physical empirical evidence, I listen too, to the legends, and
look to the maps, terraine and signs where ancient and early historicÂ waterways once interconnected many peoples from distances near and far.
> SusanÂ .... "The human mind is designed to be empowered by age rather than enfeebled by it" (glad we are empowering our minds together within associations such as this, folks)
> > http://www.library.wisc.edu/etext/Antiquities/antiqHome.html#TOC
> > THE ANTIQUITIES OF WISCONSIN,
> > AS
> > SURVEYED AND DESCRIBED.
> > BY
> > I. A. LAPHAM
> > CIVIL ENGINEER, ETC.,
> > ON BEHALF OF THE AMERICAN ANTIQUARIAN SOCIETY.
> > PUBLISHED BY THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION,
> > WASHINGTON D.C.
> > JUNE 1855 from Chapter 3,
Section 2 - ANCIENT WORKS AT AND IN THE
> > VICINITY OF AZTALAN: ....The only ancient work resembling this in its
> > general features heretofore described, is that of Tuloom [Tulum] in
> > Yucatan, of which an account is given by Mr. Stephens, and quoted by Mr.
> > Squier1 . This is an inclosure of about the same dimensions, and bounded
> > on the east by the sea; it consists of a loose stone wall, with
> > watch-towers at the two west corners, corresponding with the two large
> > pyramidal mounds at Aztalan, except that they are placed on the walls...
> > [see Stephens description]
> > ..... Do not these facts
> warrant the suggestion that the people of
> > Aztalan, in Wisconsin, were a different people, in many respects, from
> > those who erected the animal-shaped mounds? This location may possibly
> > have been occupied by a colony of
Mexicans; since we know that colonies
> > were sometimes sent out by that singular people.1 1 Squier's
> > Nicaragua, Vol. II.
> > I realize these texts were written 150 years ago and considerably more
> > scientific data has been added to the larger historical and
> > archaelogical records since then. Yet I have long wondered why
> > frequent, long-term, likely two way diffusion-(via travel, trade,
> > genetic, etc.) by the mound/pyramid builders between the Mississippi
> > Riverways and Aztalan/the Yucatan and beyond is considered a stretch of
> > the imagination and/or lacking substantiative evidence. I'd be more
> > surprised--and it seems to me an insulting,
> undermining of the cultures
> > and peoples---to believe that no contact took place between these vast
> > regions and cultural groups. Especially taking into
> > proficient abilities of watercraft construction and navigation by
> > ancient, aboriginal peoples living/navigating along interconnecting
> > water routes within and between the Americas. And pondering countless
> > reasons human beings the world 'round have always needed, wanted, even
> > curiously desired to travel beyond ones boundaries, clan, and 'own
> > comfortable kind'.
> > Nevertheless, I am grateful folks from this group are making such
> > inquiries and inter-/intra-continental travels. It is also great to see
> > fairly frequent, incoming members to our group. Please keep posting
> > about ancient or significant waterways nearest your home, or your
> > family's places of origin