... That only works until a point. ... We re doing this already. The problem is the size of projects, the type of management, and the processes already inMessage 1 of 62 , Aug 30, 2006View SourceOn 8/31/06, William Pietri <william@...> wrote:
> You realize you can keep it secret, right?That only works until a point.
> Most waterfall project plans I've seen are works of fiction anyhow, soWe're doing this already. The problem is the size of projects, the
> wrapping some of that around a more fact-centered agile process strikes
> me as a step forward.
type of management, and the processes already in place which we all
are expected to follow. All of this is stuff one can deal with.
Something far more problematic is people who are not convinced agile
stuff is the right thing to do. If you can hide your work from them,
then great, but there is this notion of teamwork going on here that
requires a certain ... mediation to old progroms.
"Ultimately, all things are known because you want to believe you know."
- Frank Herbert
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... Which, honestly, I don t think is unreasonable. From the perspective of the waterfall person, all problems can be solved with a little more planning, andMessage 62 of 62 , Aug 31, 2006View SourceAlexander Johannesen wrote:
> If you can hide your work from them,Which, honestly, I don't think is unreasonable. From the perspective of
> then great, but there is this notion of teamwork going on here that
> requires a certain ... mediation to old progroms.
the waterfall person, all problems can be solved with a little more
planning, and failing to plan it all up front looks dangerous and the
fast route to failure. Until you have seen it work, it's easy to believe
that agile processes are impossible. I sure did.
When dealing with people like that I'll generally try one of two
approaches. The first is "Well, let's try an experiment." We find some
level of risk that they are comfortable with and try out agile methods
in that context. If the experiment is a success, we try a bigger experiment.
The other is, "You do what you think it takes." If they want a big spec,
then sure, they can write one up as we have our discussions around the
product. If they think a continuously updated spec is important, then
great, they should keep updating it. If they want a big MS Project
thingy, fine, we'll make sure all the necessary data is on our wall of
I don't know if those are helpful to you, but they've worked for me.