Karel, First, (and important) WINMOR and V4 are licensed ONLY for non commercial (Ham or MARS) use. There is no commercial use of either the software or theMessage 1 of 9 , Apr 27, 2011View SourceKarel,First, (and important) WINMOR and V4 are licensed ONLY for non commercial (Ham or MARS) use. There is no commercial use of either the software or the WINMOR or V4 protocols permitted without a specific license from the Amateur Radio Safety Foundation Inc. www.arsfi.org (This is a 501C3 Public charity that holds the rights to all the WINMOR, V4, RMS Express, RMS WINMOR etc software). It is donations to this 501C3 (both corporate and individual) that we use to pay for the real costs (not donated volunteer labor) of the WL2K system and the various required 3rd party licenses.If we do, permit or support a Linux version it MUST be under those same license constraints.Second: If you want to go ahead and work on a Linux equivalent I would strongly suggest partitioning the software into two separate and independent components:1) The virtual TNC. This is like the WINMOR TNC or V4 TNC code. It ONLY implements the bit level protocol. It has nothing to do with the application, displays, forwarding message layer protocol etc. This permits others to use the virtual TNC and construct their own application(s). The BPQ32 is a good example of how this works. John Wiseman took the public WINMOR TNC code and a fairly simple interface document and integrated the WINMOR mode into BPQ32. Since it is a Windows application it uses the released WINMOR TNC as is (no modifications). The virtual TNC (Both WINMOR and V4) interface using a pair of simple TCPIP ports on the local computer (it theory it doesn’t need to be local but TCP Packet timing could then become more critical). This insures it is compatible with other applications using the WINMOR TNC (there are now a handful). The attached zip has some documentation on how the WINMOR Virtual TNC is used and interfaced.2) The application (Client, server or like RMS Express a program that can be both client and server with some message addressing restrictions). Making a client is a very personal sort of thing and it can range from a full blown client like RMS Express (all modes, built in message editing, display, management, radio control, propagation prediction etc) to something much simpler piggy backing on some existing email client. None of these functions should deal with the bit level protocol (WINMOR, Packet, Pactor etc) those should all normally be done by the TNC (or virtual TNC e.g. WINMOR TNC). One thing that is for certain....a client application requires a lot of support for users: help, forums, updates etc. This I can speak from experience (we have developed 3 or 4 user clients over the past several years).The reason that the SCS P2, P3 and P4 protocols are not open is this is a private company, they spent many engineering man years developing and refining Pactor and they have shareholders to answer to. I am certain they are not going to give away the company jewels using open source or free licenses. The same goes for Harris and Motorola HF modems. MIL Std 188 (STANAG) is a different story but that has limitation and cannot be used in many band segments of the US (symbol rate exceeds 300 baud).One thing I can tell you having now done several sound card type protocols (SCAMP, WINMOR, V4) is there is a tremendous amount of time testing and tweaking these protocols for performance and robustness. If one develops a second implementation (e.g. Linux) version of a sound card protocol is will be essential to develop a very thorough and automatic verification mechanism to insure it is a compatible implementation of the same protocol (e.g. A Linux and Window WINMOR implementation can talk to each other without any problem). This means structuring testing scenarios and verification through repeatable simulated HF channels. (using a HF channel simulator)The V4 mode was designed specifically for keyboard chat to support typical manual typing speeds. It is slicker (faster turn around), does not use compression, can handle multi byte UTF-8 characters, and occupies only 200 Hz bandwidth. The V4 ARQ mode COULD be used for messages (attachments not practical with this speed) but using WINMOR’s 500 Hz mode would probably be much better unless the 200 Hz bandwidth was an absolute requirement.I have attached a zip containing the initial test source for WINMOR. This part is all based on public code and should be a slam dunk to translate and test. Consider it something like 5-10% of what I would estimate as the porting effort. It should give you a feel for what is involved but the real DSP (modulation, demodulation, tuning, etc) and bit level protocol code is considerably more complex.One suggestion is if you are going to piggy back on an existing “standard” (e.g. HF Packet, Pactor 1, Q15X25) make sure you do your homework and really test (in a controlled environment using a HF simulator) how fast and robust the mode is. The world does not need another easy to implement but inferior HF mode like HF packet!Let me know your thoughts and intentions.73,Rick KN6KB
Let me introduce myself first. I am an electrical engineer, telecom. I am working, living with my family in Ecuador. I have a small company working in telecoms. I have a special interest in datacomunications on HF and VHF/UHF. I am interested getting an opensource windows, Linux solution for data and mail transfer for emergency and utility communicatios with a free spinoff for amateur radio.
At this moment exist several approaches doing so:
-Packet Q15X25, multitone, using soundcard in windows and Linux, open source. Tested the software on both platforms, works, but because of the overhead its slow.
-Pactor, I,II,III, and now 4 (will be released in July) using special modem in Windows, Linux, closed. Good for IP traffic but source. Works but its all closed hardware and protocoll. No good software available under Linux.
-Winmore RMS express and server, unsing soundcard emulation a TNC and modem (pactor and packet) in Windows. Tested and works ok. Only windows, no code for Linux. I would change some features, one of the most importand is the choice of the Internet/mail gateway. Now you rely on several mailservers selected, but your not free to make your own net.
-V4 Chat, using soundcard in windows. No code for Linux. Some features in the config I would change, f.i. The text in the receive windows contains also the errors, this I would chose to leave only to the text corrected. I tested the software very nice but no Linux. Would be great if connected to internet chat. Porting it to Linux will still be a lot of work. ARQ version would be nice, but I don't see this as a priority.
-RFSM2400, emulation Milstd.188-110 serialtone, and modifications, using soundcard in Windows, closed source. (shareware, free of charge) I tested this software and helped develop as alfa tester.
-RFSM800,emulation Milstd.188-110 serialtone and modifications, using soundcard in Windows, closed source.(shareware licence) Works fine, but no all pc's and soundcards (timing) I tested this software and helped develop as alfa tester. Not good for IP traffic without a proxy. As far as I have tested only one version 2400) permits IP proxy.
-HF Modem emulation Milstd.188-110 serialtone soundcard, on Linux platform, not ready, a bit outdated. (I have the sourcecode) I did not test this software and its not up to date.
-WinDRM, multitone modem (QAM) data and voice, based on DRM standard for broadcasting, on Windows (open source) code available for windows. I tested this software. It works fine but no Linux vesion is available. Does not work under Wine. Porting it to Linux will be a lot of work. Not realy good for IP traffic without the use of a proxy. (to much latency)
Most of the software runs on a windows platform. Running this software under wine is critical because of timing. Besides not all software will run in wine.
If Winmor RMS, server and client would be available in Linux this is a very good candidate for mail and file transfer. Should be free for non commercial use. Features have to be optimised for commercial and utility use. It would be the ideal solution for Emergency networks.
Rick if I get the code available of the V4 and WinmorRMS (express) server and client, I would go looking for funding, together or allone. Overhere in Ecuador I have good programmers for Linux and windows. However working for free in a third world country is a fantasy. People should earn a little bit, they need it. I have several contacts to local universities and politecnics and students interested in a thesis project. We need a projectcoordinator and a formal project. I could be the coordinator of the project, but funding is needed. One of the strong items is the availability of programmers and the need for development. Many regions in Latin America have no access to mail or the internet for utility (NGO's) Indian villages, medical centres, government and non government agencies (emergency trafic as a backbone) and commercial traffic. Satelite is the only option up to now.
I would be glad to cooperate and receive your material 'as is'. If your interested we open a project and coordinate software development. Splitting up the software in modules and putting it all together, testing it in the real world and distributing it.
2011/4/27 Rick Muething <rmuething@...>
Karel,Not sure what you mean by the “RMS of Winmor”? There is already RMS WINMOR (server for Winlink 2000), BPQ32 (incorporates a WINMOR channel) and RMS Express (WINMOR, Packet, Pactor, Robust packet, Telnet client). W are working on (I am not doing initial alpha testing) of an RMS Trimode server (WINMOR, Pactor 1,2,3, and Robust Packet). The latter will allow scanning of multiple frequencies (up to 3 at a given time) and accept connections for those three HF protocols.Re porting: All the code is written in VB.NET 2010 and includes multi threading and uses the Microsoft Direct X for sound card control (that direct X will of course need to be changed to be compatible with the sound card driver interfaces in Linux).If you are interested I will send you a package of some of the VB code. This is pretty simple code (Reed Solomon encoder/decoder, Viterbi decoder, and basic FFT code). These represent perhaps about 10% of the coding effort and should all transfer fairly easily to C or using some form of bridge software (Mono etc). If you can make all those work and test them you have a start on the porting effort but it does not include any of the complex real time timing or multi threading. So far those that I have sent the sample package to have not delivered anything... I suspect they were more hackers than real programmers but as you know this stuff takes a lot of time and the last thing we want is for a half baked and poorly supported implementation of Linux WINMOR out there. It will just cause a lot of headaches.73,Rick KN6KB
Rick yes I know its a lot of work. Timing is critical as is with other communications software especialy using ARQ.So you are working on that. What about the porting of V4 and winmor TNC. dou you have the sourcecode, also of the RMS of Winmor?That would be great.Let me know.KarelHC1AKPK
2011/4/27 Rick Muething <rmuething@...>
The V4 TNC software is time critical and requires tight coupling of the OS and the sound card DSP processing software. I would be surprised if it works well on a Windows emulator. When I get some time (I have been swamped with other matters) I will gladly work with an experienced Linux/C programmer to help port the V4 and WINMOR TNC code to Linux. But it is not a trivial exercise (read will take man months of work) and needs to be supported down the road. I am currently working on the V4 ARQ mode and would like to get that working before getting involved in any porting activity.Rick Muething, KN6KB
I tried and it wil niet work under wine. If anybody succeeds let e know.I woud appreciate if this code would be native under Linux, but that wil not be easy. Has anybody tried geeting the code to be ported to Linux?GreetingsKarelHC1AKP
2011/4/26 David <djmunn@...>
Has anyone been able to run V4 on Linux under Wine
I can get it to install but wont work as i need VB8
will try and install that and see if i can get it to work
73 David VK4BDJ