I ve doing some reading in and about Papias of late and have a question. J. B. Lightfoot and Eduard Schweizer (not sure on the latter) have both explained theMessage 1 of 2 , Aug 3, 2007View SourceI've doing some reading in and about Papias of late and have a
question. J. B. Lightfoot and Eduard Schweizer (not sure on the
latter) have both explained the Elder's comments about Mark not being
"in order" etc as to be taken in comparison to the Elder's own gospel,
or at least his oral teaching of the material that would become the
4th gospel. This seems to me a very likely explanation since it seems
that the Elder had something to do with the 4th Gospel and it is well
known that the chronology of John differs from the Synoptics,
HOwever, I haven't seen this idea referred to or discussed much in
assessments of Papias' comments regarding Mark and the Synoptics. Is
it because it isn't a widely known idea, or has it for some reason
that I've not discovered yet been shown to be unlikely?
As I write I also think of Irenaeus, and I should go look this up but
I'm going off memory, who excoriates a set of Christians in part for
having only the gospel of Mark and so therefore according to him have
gone into error. But part of his comments have to do with the issue
of "time", how old Jesus was, how long his ministry was, etc (does he
use similar vocabulary to Papias' Elder, such as "taxis"? I don't
have immediate access to a text of Irenaeus.), and how this effects
order and the measure of time. This would seem to possibly be a
continuation of the same discussion as Papias reports of the Elder,
there are problems in the Marcan, specifically (and perhaps the
Synoptics in general), ordering of Jesus' life.
Thanks in advance!
BTW, as long as I have your attention, about 10 years Charles Hill
published an article in JTS on Eusebius' source of information
regarding the composition of Luke and John as being Papias. I found
the article convincing and to have explanatory power re: Eusebius and
his use and disparagement of Papias. I wonder if any others here have
read it and what they thought.
University of Illinois at Chicago
Those looking for recent studies on Papias should be aware that Edward Henry Hall: Papias And His Contemporaries; was originally published in 1899 and freshlyMessage 1 of 2 , Aug 4, 2007View SourceThose looking for recent studies on Papias should be
aware that Edward Henry Hall: Papias And His
Contemporaries; was originally published in 1899 and
freshly reprinted this year in 2007.
Some recent bibliography on Papias:
Bauckham, Richard, Jesus and the Eyewitnesses : the
Gospels as Eyewitness Testimony. (Grand Rapids, Mich.
: William B. Eerdmans Pub. Co., 2006)see also
Bauckham, Richard, The Eyewitnesses and the Gospel
Tradition. JSHJ 1 (2003) : 28-60.
Foster, Paul, The Writings of the Apostolic Fathers
(T&T Clark, 2007)
Gundry, R H, The Apostolically Johannine pre-Papian
Tradition Concerning the Gospels of Mark and Matthew,
in Gundry R H, The Old is Better: New Testament Essays
in Support of Traditional Interpretations, (Tübingen:
Mohr Siebeck, 2005) : 49-73.
Holmes, Michael W., The Apostolic Fathers in English
(Grand Rapids, Mich. : Baker Academic,2006)
Norelli, Enrico, ed., Papias of Hierapolis,
Esposizione degli oracoli del signore. I
frammenti.(Letture Christiane del Primo Millennio,
See also Bockmuehl, M., The Journal of Ecclesiastical
History, 57, no. 1 (2006): 99-100
Norelli, Enrico, et alia, Papias de Hiérapolis a-t-il
utilisé un recueil "canonique" des quatre évangiles?,
dans : G. Aragione, E. Junod et E. Norelli (dir.), Le
canon du Nouveau Testament. Regards nouveaux sur
l'histoire de sa formation, Le monde de la Bible 54,
Genève 2005, p. 35-85.
Pouderon et Duval, La mémoire des origines
chrétiennes: Papias et Hégésippe chez Eusèbe:
Lhistoriographie de lEglise des premiers siècles,
éd. B. Pouderon; Y.-M. Duval (Théologie historique
114), Paris, Beauchesne, 2001, p. 1-22.
Sim, David C., "The Gospel of Matthew, John the Elder
and the Papias Tradition: A response to R H Gundry,"
HTS 63(1) 2007
Tasmuth, R., "Authority, Authorship, and Apostolicity
as a Part of the Johannine Question: The Role of
Papias in the Search for the Authoritative Author of
the Gospel of John," Concordia journal. 33, no. 1,
John N. Lupia, III
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