Rev. Fr. George Achan, While appreciating your effort in trying hard to convince the Syrian orthodox Christians that the local hierarchy in India was alwaysMessage 1 of 3 , Nov 25, 2007View SourceRev. Fr. George Achan,
While appreciating your effort in trying hard to convince the Syrian
orthodox Christians that the local hierarchy in India was always right
and only administration of H.H Patriarchs of Antioch were the reasons for the pathetic situation of our "CHURCH" in India, I would like you to have look at in the first and and fifth Diptychs (Thoobdens) being read in the Indian Orthodox Churches.
The first Diptych is for praying for the living heads of the Churches. IOC churches seems to be afraid of taking the name of the head of Universal Syrian Orthodox Church and so casually pass it just as Ignatius. Do any one remember their parents, children or themselves only by their title when giving names for remembering in H. Qurbano.
Further the IOC hierarchy has maliciously changed this Diptych to equate the IOC catholicose amongst the names of the Patriarchs and while cunnigly doing so, the name of the catholicose also had to left out to camouflage it and therefore, unfortunately go unremembered.
In most of the IOC churches only the first para and the last para of the 5th Diptych are read to avoid mentioning of the syriac forefathers of the faith.
Such corrupt actions without any feeling of guilt bring out the true colour of the local hierarchy. Whom your people are trying to fool, the laity, the religion or the God almighty Himself.? Do you think any of the righteous minded Orthodox Christians could consciously take part in Eucharists with such farce liturgical erosion. Are you bold enough to enforce in your church to include the name of H.H. Patriarch and also the in name of your Catholicose in the diptych.
Talking of unity and peace among churches, I would request you to please go through one of my earlier articles on this (Copy attached here).
Yours in Christ,
SOCM # 3321
Dear Mr Abraham, I don t want to go into the main idea communicated in your message. However I would like to comment on one of your sentences: In most of theMessage 2 of 3 , Nov 27, 2007View SourceDear Mr Abraham,
I don't want to go into the main idea communicated in your message.
However I would like to comment on one of your sentences:
"In most of the IOC churches only the first para and the last para of the 5th Diptych are read to avoid mentioning of the syriac forefathers of the faith."
It is a commmon mis-understanding among our faithful that all the names of the Fathers that we remember in the 5th Diptych (5th Thubden) are that of Syriac Fathers. This is not the case. In the 5th Thubden we remember the names of Fathers from the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church that upholds the faith as taught by the three ecumenical councils. We remember Coptic (Alexandrian)fathers, Syriac (Antioch) fathers, Roman fathers, Greek (Constantinople) fathers.
Here are some of the non-Syriac fathers that we remember in the 5th Thubden
* Clemis. Fourth (Bishop) Pope of Rome, Died 1st Century AD.
* Deevannasios. Patriarch of Alexandria. Died 265 CE.
* Athanasius Patriarch of Alexandria Died 373 CE.
* Yulios Pope of Rome from 337 CE .Died 352 CE.
* Dioscorus - Patriarch of Alexandria from 444 CE, Died 454 CE
* Timotheos Patriarch of Alexandria Died 477 CE.
* Anthemos - Patriarch of Constantinople
* Ivanios - Patriarch of Constantinople Died 407 CE
* Koorilos Patriarch of Alexandria. Died 444 CE.
Mathew G M
Dear Mr. Abraham Paul, Many thanks for your response. If my knowledge serves me right, formerly we (both jacobite and orthodox) recited only the main orMessage 3 of 3 , Nov 27, 2007View SourceDear Mr. Abraham Paul,
Many thanks for your response. If my knowledge serves me right, formerly we (both jacobite and orthodox) recited only the main or official name of designation of our living spiritual fathers in the first Thubden. Of the three patriarchs remembered, the first is the patriarch of Anioch Moran Mar Ignatius,the second is the Catholicose of the East Moran Mar Baselios , the third is Gregorios of Jerusalem, though only Bishop, he is designated as patriarch on a special privilege. It is only in the recent edition of the Jacobites that the full name of patriarch of antioch has been given. We(Orthodox) have not made any addition or deletion to the liturgy so far. We have no delicacy in adding the full name of the patriach of antioch in our 1st thubden provided his designation has the approval of the holy synod and Malankara Association.
The unofficial skipping of the names of the departed holy fathers in the 5th Diptychs in some places may be to save time from our lengthy liturgy and to avoid disgrace to the remebered forefathers. I have attended the holy qurbana said in many jacobite churches, there I have seen most of the acolytes recite the names of the holy fathers mere mechanically and without any sense of concentration or devotion. Anything done devoid of spirit and in a mechanical manner does not mean anything.The liturgy performed mechanically becomes a perfunctory act. So it is always better to have a meaningful diptichs than a farce diptychs.
Be assured of my prayers for you.
Yours in Christ,