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• Hi, ... .REPLACE from the documentation - *Bonus Type:* .REPLACE *What it Does:* * This is subtype of the TYPE= standard type. * .REPLACE items are counted
Message 1 of 11 , Feb 10
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Hi,

On 2/10/2013 5:14 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
> Ok, except for having to change all monsters in all sources so they explicitly have TYPE=Racial, this could be a way forward. I'm not sure if I fully understand the use of .REPLACE.

.REPLACE from the documentation -

*Bonus Type:* .REPLACE

*What it Does:*

* This is subtype of the TYPE= standard type.
* .REPLACE items are counted together to determine the final value of a particular TYPE.

*Examples:*

|BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|3|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|4|TYPE=Luck
BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck|

This would take the 2 and 3 with the .REPLACE (total 5) and compares it to the standards, which are
2 and 4, and takes the highest value, for 5.

|BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|1|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|1|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck
BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|6|TYPE=Luck|

This would take the values from the .REPLACE (total 4), and compares it to the standards, which are
2 and 6, and takes the highest value, for 6.

Onto the next portion:

Hypothetical Half-Orc 10 Str +2 from Half-Orc template: 12 Str
Polymorphed into a Troll 10 Str +12 from Troll template: 22 Str
Polymorphed into a Halfling 10 Str -2 from Halfling template: 8 Str

Is the troll strength derived from Size gain or straight bonus? Troll Size Large, Orc - size Medium.
Size Changes need to be considered if the polymorph template actually changes the size.

Otherwise, looks fine thus far.

For magic items, regardless of outcome, they still work. TYPE=Enhancement or various other TYPEs are
appropriately assigned in the magic items.

As far as the .REPLACE - no, I'd argue that you might want to make the Polymorph be a list of
ABILITIES - as you can disallow taking more than one of those, !PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special
Ability,TYPE=Polymorph, can't do that with Templates as they don't use TYPE.

The only issue I do see, is there is no 'kill switch' to disable Racial Stats. You would need to go
through all the races and add a kill switch to disable their racial stats.

There are two methods to accomplish this.

1) Ask Code for a method to turn off any racial 'BONUS:STAT'; OR
2) Place a PRExxx on all BONUS:STAT tags

You can accomplish #2 today.

BONUS:STAT|x|y|PREVARLT:DisableRacialStat,1

Then in your Polymorph Template place 'DEFINE:DisableRacialStat|1'

If you ask nicely, I'll even implement it in our core files. ;)

Cheers,

>
> I'm also wondering what happens when the Half-Orc changes into a Halfling with BONUS:STAT|STR|-2|TYPE=Racial
> Is that where the .REPLACE comes in?
>
> This is what I'd like to do:
>
> Hypothetical Half-Orc 10 Str +2 from Half-Orc template: 12 Str
> Polymorphed into a Troll 10 Str +12 from Troll template: 22 Str
> Polymorphed into a Halfling 10 Str -2 from Halfling template: 8 Str
>
> A belt of Giant Strength should still add +4 Str in all cases.
>
> Would all racial bonusses from templates need the TYPE=Racial.REPLACE?
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> BONUS:STAT|x|y|TYPE=z
>> Is a valid and legal format. I'll go out on a limb here and make a blanket statement. ALL BONUS tags
>> will accept the following:
>>
>> TYPE=
>> PRExxx
>>
>> So, you could do
>>
>> BONUS:STAT|STR|2|TYPE=Racial|!PRESTAT:DEX=13
>>
>> There is somewhere in the documentation that says the PRExxx and TYPE is valid on Bonus.
>>
>> TYPE=Racial will not stack.
>> TYPE=Racial.STACK will stack
>> TYPE=Racial.REPLACE will evaluate all such types with the REPLACE vs. any without out and take the
>> higher value between the two.
>>
>>
>> Polymorph from Orc to troll (Example stats, don't take literal)
>>
>> Say the Orc gets a +2 to Str, and the Troll gets a +4.
>>
>> Stat base of 10 (12 with Orc, 14 with Troll)
>>
>> Now, like I pointed out. Your working theory is valid, the caveat though is the Base Races don't
>> have TYPEs appended to their STAT modifiers, so your Orc with a 12 would become a 16 when you go
>> Troll instead of 14. Why? Cause the Orc is lacking the TYPE=Racial.
>>
>> The system takes any BONUS:STAT in a race and treats it as TYPE=Racial for Summary UI purposes. If
>> you place a TYPE=Racial on those, it looks funky. But it will still work.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/10/2013 4:06 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
>>> Hmmm, that's not very clear from the documentation then.
>>> But if I would change all the monsters to have BONUS:STAT|x|TYPE=Racial, then having multiple templates giving such a bonus would no longer stack, or would they still stack?
>>> How would this make the display ugly, if it's basically how it's treated already?
>>>
>>> I might test it myself but I'd also like to know how it should work, and I'm busy struggling with the 6.00 converter.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> BONUS:STAT|2|TYPE=Racial is very much valid.
>>>>
>>>> However, there is one tiny hitch up. Due to how RACES are coded, BONUS:STAT|STR|2 is treated as
>>>> 'TYPE=Racial' for the display, but not for stacking. And we'd have a very ugly display if we fixed
>>>> the Races today to use the TYPE=Racial.
>>>>
>>>> I'll flag for James and see if we can't alter it a little to be backwards compatible, and yet, still
>>>> look nice.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/10/2013 3:45 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
>>>>> Is there any way to do something like:
>>>>> BONUS:STAT|STR|2|TYPE=Racial
>>>>>
>>>>> What I'm trying to accomplish is that if a Half-Orc polymorphs into a Troll, he gets the STR bonus from the Troll instead of the one from the Half-Orc, not both as bonusses from the same TYPE should not stack.
>>>>>
>>>>> The above isn't valid syntax as far as I know, but maybe someone knows another way to do this.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't want to remove the template for the Half-Orc, as he should still retain things like the penalty to CHA and INT. Polymorph only changes the physical stats.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwllco" wrote:
>>>>>> So there is no way to get at a CON score after racial adjustments, but before adjustments from items are applied?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
>>>>>>> Looks like you found the OS variants that work -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> pcgen/docs/outputsheetpages/tokens/outputsheettokensability.html#STAT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Token Name:* STAT.w.x
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Variables Used (w):* Number as set by the statsandchecks.lst file in the gamemode (0=STR, 1=DEX,
>>>>>>> 2=CON, 3=INT, 4=WIS, 5=CHA).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Variables Used (x):* Property (Stat Property).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * None - The adjusted stat.
>>>>>>> * NAME - The short name of the stat.
>>>>>>> * LONGNAME - The long name of the stat.
>>>>>>> * STAT - The adjusted stat (same as STAT.x).
>>>>>>> * MOD - The modifier for the stat.
>>>>>>> * BASE - The stat before adjustments.
>>>>>>> * BASEMOD The modifier of the stat before adjustments.
>>>>>>> * LEVEL.y.z.z - Displays the value for the stat at level y. Variable z is optional.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's where you see the .BASE. I'm sure if you did '.BASEMOD' or those others you'd get similar
>>>>>>> results.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/4/2012 2:55 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
>>>>>>>> Suppose I have a Dwarf, who has a +2 racial bonus to CON
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I now want to add a template that replaces his CON score, but still adds any bonus he might have from items.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I do BONUS:STAT|CON|21-CONSCORE
>>>>>>>> The item bonus no longer shows up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I do BONUS:STAT|CON|21-CONSCORE.BASE
>>>>>>>> The racial bonus is still added.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've tried DEFINE:LOCK.CON|21 as well. No item bonus.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've now solved it by making a template "Remove Dwarf CON bonus", which gives BONUS:STAT|CON|-2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was wondering if that's the only way to go? I wasn't aware I could do CONSCORE.BASE at first, didn't find that in the documentation, found it being used in a LST file. There might be something similar that I've missed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RW.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
>>>>>>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
>>>>>>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
>>>>>>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
>>>>>>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
>>>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
>>>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
>>>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
>>>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>

--
Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
• ... Thanks for explaining that. I had not understood that it works like that. It basically makes it useless for my purposes. I can t think of how this can be
Message 1 of 11 , Feb 10
View Source
--- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> On 2/10/2013 5:14 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
> > Ok, except for having to change all monsters in all sources so they explicitly have TYPE=Racial, this could be a way forward. I'm not sure if I fully understand the use of .REPLACE.
>
> .REPLACE from the documentation -
>
> *Bonus Type:* .REPLACE
>
> *What it Does:*
>
> * This is subtype of the TYPE= standard type.
> * .REPLACE items are counted together to determine the final value of a particular TYPE.
>
> *Examples:*
>
> |BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|3|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|4|TYPE=Luck
> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck|
>
> This would take the 2 and 3 with the .REPLACE (total 5) and compares it to the standards, which are
> 2 and 4, and takes the highest value, for 5.
>
> |BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|1|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|1|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck
> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|6|TYPE=Luck|
>
> This would take the values from the .REPLACE (total 4), and compares it to the standards, which are
> 2 and 6, and takes the highest value, for 6.
>
>
Thanks for explaining that. I had not understood that it works like that. It basically makes it useless for my purposes. I can't think of how this can be used, but I might think of something in the future.

>
> Onto the next portion:
>
> Hypothetical Half-Orc 10 Str +2 from Half-Orc template: 12 Str
> Polymorphed into a Troll 10 Str +12 from Troll template: 22 Str
> Polymorphed into a Halfling 10 Str -2 from Halfling template: 8 Str
>
>
> Is the troll strength derived from Size gain or straight bonus? Troll Size Large, Orc - size Medium.
> Size Changes need to be considered if the polymorph template actually changes the size.
>
> Otherwise, looks fine thus far.
>
The numbers were just an example to illustrate what I'm trying to accomplish. I can not get this to work, at least in 5.14, unless I add another template "Remove Half-Orc Strength" before applying either the Troll or Halfling template.
Adding TYPE=Racial to everything would fix part of the problem, but I don't think it would make the halfling template work, as it would pick the Half-Orc Strength as it's 4 higher.

> For magic items, regardless of outcome, they still work. TYPE=Enhancement or various other TYPEs are
> appropriately assigned in the magic items.
>

I'll have to check that for all CMP and homebrew datasets...

> As far as the .REPLACE - no, I'd argue that you might want to make the Polymorph be a list of
> ABILITIES - as you can disallow taking more than one of those, !PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special
> Ability,TYPE=Polymorph, can't do that with Templates as they don't use TYPE.
>
I'm not worried about having more than one of the polymorph templates applied. My problem is how to have a BONUS:STAT|STR|2|TYPE=Racial
stack with BONUS:STAT|STR|-2|TYPE=Racial in such a way that the end result is -2.

> The only issue I do see, is there is no 'kill switch' to disable Racial Stats. You would need to go
> through all the races and add a kill switch to disable their racial stats.
>
> There are two methods to accomplish this.
>
> 1) Ask Code for a method to turn off any racial 'BONUS:STAT'; OR
> 2) Place a PRExxx on all BONUS:STAT tags
>
> You can accomplish #2 today.
>
> BONUS:STAT|x|y|PREVARLT:DisableRacialStat,1
>
> Then in your Polymorph Template place 'DEFINE:DisableRacialStat|1'
>
Ugh, sounds very complicated and a lot of work. I'm not even sure I fully understand your solution, but usually your explanations are just enough that when implementing I start to understand the details.

If I understand correctly, you're suggesting to add PREVARLT:DisableRacialStat,1 instead of TYPE=Racial to all STATs for all monsters and then using that as a kill switch in the polymorph templates. I might need to change it to have DisableRacialStr, DisableRacialDex, DisableRacialCon, etc.

It's why I was originally looking at the XXXSCORE and XXXSCORE.BASE to see if I could use those instead. Without code changes there doesn't seem to be a way to figure out which part of the difference between those two is due to Racial changes. There is no XXXSCORE.Racial or something like that.

> If you ask nicely, I'll even implement it in our core files. ;)
>

Cheers,

>
> Cheers,
>
> >
> > I'm also wondering what happens when the Half-Orc changes into a Halfling with BONUS:STAT|STR|-2|TYPE=Racial
> > Is that where the .REPLACE comes in?
> >
> > This is what I'd like to do:
> >
> > Hypothetical Half-Orc 10 Str +2 from Half-Orc template: 12 Str
> > Polymorphed into a Troll 10 Str +12 from Troll template: 22 Str
> > Polymorphed into a Halfling 10 Str -2 from Halfling template: 8 Str
> >
> > A belt of Giant Strength should still add +4 Str in all cases.
> >
> > Would all racial bonusses from templates need the TYPE=Racial.REPLACE?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> BONUS:STAT|x|y|TYPE=z
> >> Is a valid and legal format. I'll go out on a limb here and make a blanket statement. ALL BONUS tags
> >> will accept the following:
> >>
> >> TYPE=
> >> PRExxx
> >>
> >> So, you could do
> >>
> >> BONUS:STAT|STR|2|TYPE=Racial|!PRESTAT:DEX=13
> >>
> >> There is somewhere in the documentation that says the PRExxx and TYPE is valid on Bonus.
> >>
> >> TYPE=Racial will not stack.
> >> TYPE=Racial.STACK will stack
> >> TYPE=Racial.REPLACE will evaluate all such types with the REPLACE vs. any without out and take the
> >> higher value between the two.
> >>
> >> Your idea will work:
> >>
> >> Polymorph from Orc to troll (Example stats, don't take literal)
> >>
> >> Say the Orc gets a +2 to Str, and the Troll gets a +4.
> >>
> >> Stat base of 10 (12 with Orc, 14 with Troll)
> >>
> >> Now, like I pointed out. Your working theory is valid, the caveat though is the Base Races don't
> >> have TYPEs appended to their STAT modifiers, so your Orc with a 12 would become a 16 when you go
> >> Troll instead of 14. Why? Cause the Orc is lacking the TYPE=Racial.
> >>
> >> The system takes any BONUS:STAT in a race and treats it as TYPE=Racial for Summary UI purposes. If
> >> you place a TYPE=Racial on those, it looks funky. But it will still work.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/10/2013 4:06 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
> >>> Hmmm, that's not very clear from the documentation then.
> >>> But if I would change all the monsters to have BONUS:STAT|x|TYPE=Racial, then having multiple templates giving such a bonus would no longer stack, or would they still stack?
> >>> How would this make the display ugly, if it's basically how it's treated already?
> >>>
> >>> I might test it myself but I'd also like to know how it should work, and I'm busy struggling with the 6.00 converter.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> BONUS:STAT|2|TYPE=Racial is very much valid.
> >>>>
> >>>> However, there is one tiny hitch up. Due to how RACES are coded, BONUS:STAT|STR|2 is treated as
> >>>> 'TYPE=Racial' for the display, but not for stacking. And we'd have a very ugly display if we fixed
> >>>> the Races today to use the TYPE=Racial.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll flag for James and see if we can't alter it a little to be backwards compatible, and yet, still
> >>>> look nice.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 2/10/2013 3:45 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
> >>>>> Is there any way to do something like:
> >>>>> BONUS:STAT|STR|2|TYPE=Racial
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What I'm trying to accomplish is that if a Half-Orc polymorphs into a Troll, he gets the STR bonus from the Troll instead of the one from the Half-Orc, not both as bonusses from the same TYPE should not stack.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The above isn't valid syntax as far as I know, but maybe someone knows another way to do this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't want to remove the template for the Half-Orc, as he should still retain things like the penalty to CHA and INT. Polymorph only changes the physical stats.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwllco" wrote:
> >>>>>> So there is no way to get at a CON score after racial adjustments, but before adjustments from items are applied?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
> >>>>>>> Looks like you found the OS variants that work -
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> pcgen/docs/outputsheetpages/tokens/outputsheettokensability.html#STAT
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Token Name:* STAT.w.x
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Variables Used (w):* Number as set by the statsandchecks.lst file in the gamemode (0=STR, 1=DEX,
> >>>>>>> 2=CON, 3=INT, 4=WIS, 5=CHA).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Variables Used (x):* Property (Stat Property).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * None - The adjusted stat.
> >>>>>>> * NAME - The short name of the stat.
> >>>>>>> * LONGNAME - The long name of the stat.
> >>>>>>> * STAT - The adjusted stat (same as STAT.x).
> >>>>>>> * MOD - The modifier for the stat.
> >>>>>>> * BASE - The stat before adjustments.
> >>>>>>> * BASEMOD The modifier of the stat before adjustments.
> >>>>>>> * LEVEL.y.z.z - Displays the value for the stat at level y. Variable z is optional.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> That's where you see the .BASE. I'm sure if you did '.BASEMOD' or those others you'd get similar
> >>>>>>> results.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 3/4/2012 2:55 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Suppose I have a Dwarf, who has a +2 racial bonus to CON
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I now want to add a template that replaces his CON score, but still adds any bonus he might have from items.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If I do BONUS:STAT|CON|21-CONSCORE
> >>>>>>>> The item bonus no longer shows up.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If I do BONUS:STAT|CON|21-CONSCORE.BASE
> >>>>>>>> The racial bonus is still added.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I've tried DEFINE:LOCK.CON|21 as well. No item bonus.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I've now solved it by making a template "Remove Dwarf CON bonus", which gives BONUS:STAT|CON|-2
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I was wondering if that's the only way to go? I wasn't aware I could do CONSCORE.BASE at first, didn't find that in the documentation, found it being used in a LST file. There might be something similar that I've missed.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RW.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
> >>>>>>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
> >>>>>>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
> >>>>>>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
> >>>>>>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
> >>>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
> >>>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
> >>>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
> >>>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
> >> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
> >> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
> >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
> >> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
• Hi, Yeah, frequent distractions keep the explanations from becoming way to verbose. So, a simple solution: Halfling
Message 1 of 11 , Feb 10
View Source
Hi,

Yeah, frequent distractions keep the explanations from becoming way to verbose.

So, a simple solution:

Halfling
BONUS:STAT|STR|-2|TYPE=Racial|PREVARLT:DisableRacialStat,1
BONUS:STAT|DEX|2|TYPE=Racial|PREVARLT:DisableRacialStat,1

This says, give -2 to Strength and +2 to Dexterity, unless the value of DisableRacialStat is not 0.

Now, since Polymorph completely removes your previous Racial Stats, this is how you remove all of
them in one fell swoop.

Template Polymorph
DEFINE:DisableRacialStat|1
(We've now enabled the removal of the Race Granted Stats, this will remove all Racially granted
Stats - okay, in all seriousness, only the ones we place the PREVARLT deal on, but this is the gist).
Now, I'm then suggesting your Polymorph Template have:
BONUS:ABILITYPOOL|Polymorph Selection|1

You then have your Polymorph Selections of

Orc, Troll, Etc...

Those are represented as abilities in the pool

Orc
KEY:Orc ~ Polymorph Racial
TYPE:PolymorphSelection.SpecialQuality
CATEGORY:Special Ability
DESC:You've assumed the racial abilities of an orc granting you blah, foo and blah.
BONUS:STAT|STR|2|TYPE=Racial
BONUS:STAT|CON|2|TYPE=Racial
BONUS:STAT|CHA|-2|TYPE=Racial

And if you're looking to add other things, you can do:
ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC|TYPE=OrcRacialDefault

Which if you set up Orc Racial Abilities with 'TYPE=OrcRacialDefault', will then add them. Just
depends on how much you want to accomplish.

Now, when you take your Orc, you get +2 to Str & Con, and -2 to Cha. It still shows up as a Racial
Stat, thanks to the 'TYPE=Racial' appended, and you don't have to concern yourself with which base
race stats you have to negate. It's a rather elegant solution for what you need and actually handles
one of the aspects of polymorph. Removing the Racial abilities, can be accomplished in much the same
way, though I'd recommend another Variable Name - like 'DisableRacialAbilities'.

I hope that makes a little more sense.

Cheers,

On 2/10/2013 7:57 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/10/2013 5:14 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
>>> Ok, except for having to change all monsters in all sources so they explicitly have TYPE=Racial, this could be a way forward. I'm not sure if I fully understand the use of .REPLACE.
>> .REPLACE from the documentation -
>>
>> *Bonus Type:* .REPLACE
>>
>> *What it Does:*
>>
>> * This is subtype of the TYPE= standard type.
>> * .REPLACE items are counted together to determine the final value of a particular TYPE.
>>
>> *Examples:*
>>
>> |BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|3|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
>> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
>> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|4|TYPE=Luck
>> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck|
>>
>> This would take the 2 and 3 with the .REPLACE (total 5) and compares it to the standards, which are
>> 2 and 4, and takes the highest value, for 5.
>>
>> |BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|1|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
>> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|1|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
>> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck.REPLACE
>> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|2|TYPE=Luck
>> BONUS:SKILL|Bluff,Listen|6|TYPE=Luck|
>>
>> This would take the values from the .REPLACE (total 4), and compares it to the standards, which are
>> 2 and 6, and takes the highest value, for 6.
>>
>>
> Thanks for explaining that. I had not understood that it works like that. It basically makes it useless for my purposes. I can't think of how this can be used, but I might think of something in the future.
>
>> Onto the next portion:
>>
>> Hypothetical Half-Orc 10 Str +2 from Half-Orc template: 12 Str
>> Polymorphed into a Troll 10 Str +12 from Troll template: 22 Str
>> Polymorphed into a Halfling 10 Str -2 from Halfling template: 8 Str
>>
>>
>> Is the troll strength derived from Size gain or straight bonus? Troll Size Large, Orc - size Medium.
>> Size Changes need to be considered if the polymorph template actually changes the size.
>>
>> Otherwise, looks fine thus far.
>>
> The numbers were just an example to illustrate what I'm trying to accomplish. I can not get this to work, at least in 5.14, unless I add another template "Remove Half-Orc Strength" before applying either the Troll or Halfling template.
> Adding TYPE=Racial to everything would fix part of the problem, but I don't think it would make the halfling template work, as it would pick the Half-Orc Strength as it's 4 higher.
>
>> For magic items, regardless of outcome, they still work. TYPE=Enhancement or various other TYPEs are
>> appropriately assigned in the magic items.
>>
> I'll have to check that for all CMP and homebrew datasets...
>
>> As far as the .REPLACE - no, I'd argue that you might want to make the Polymorph be a list of
>> ABILITIES - as you can disallow taking more than one of those, !PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special
>> Ability,TYPE=Polymorph, can't do that with Templates as they don't use TYPE.
>>
> I'm not worried about having more than one of the polymorph templates applied. My problem is how to have a BONUS:STAT|STR|2|TYPE=Racial
> stack with BONUS:STAT|STR|-2|TYPE=Racial in such a way that the end result is -2.
>
>> The only issue I do see, is there is no 'kill switch' to disable Racial Stats. You would need to go
>> through all the races and add a kill switch to disable their racial stats.
>>
>> There are two methods to accomplish this.
>>
>> 1) Ask Code for a method to turn off any racial 'BONUS:STAT'; OR
>> 2) Place a PRExxx on all BONUS:STAT tags
>>
>> You can accomplish #2 today.
>>
>> BONUS:STAT|x|y|PREVARLT:DisableRacialStat,1
>>
>> Then in your Polymorph Template place 'DEFINE:DisableRacialStat|1'
>>
> Ugh, sounds very complicated and a lot of work. I'm not even sure I fully understand your solution, but usually your explanations are just enough that when implementing I start to understand the details.
>
> If I understand correctly, you're suggesting to add PREVARLT:DisableRacialStat,1 instead of TYPE=Racial to all STATs for all monsters and then using that as a kill switch in the polymorph templates. I might need to change it to have DisableRacialStr, DisableRacialDex, DisableRacialCon, etc.
>
> It's why I was originally looking at the XXXSCORE and XXXSCORE.BASE to see if I could use those instead. Without code changes there doesn't seem to be a way to figure out which part of the difference between those two is due to Racial changes. There is no XXXSCORE.Racial or something like that.
>
>> If you ask nicely, I'll even implement it in our core files. ;)
>>
> I'll answer that somewhere else.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>> I'm also wondering what happens when the Half-Orc changes into a Halfling with BONUS:STAT|STR|-2|TYPE=Racial
>>> Is that where the .REPLACE comes in?
>>>
>>> This is what I'd like to do:
>>>
>>> Hypothetical Half-Orc 10 Str +2 from Half-Orc template: 12 Str
>>> Polymorphed into a Troll 10 Str +12 from Troll template: 22 Str
>>> Polymorphed into a Halfling 10 Str -2 from Halfling template: 8 Str
>>>
>>> A belt of Giant Strength should still add +4 Str in all cases.
>>>
>>> Would all racial bonusses from templates need the TYPE=Racial.REPLACE?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> BONUS:STAT|x|y|TYPE=z
>>>> Is a valid and legal format. I'll go out on a limb here and make a blanket statement. ALL BONUS tags
>>>> will accept the following:
>>>>
>>>> TYPE=
>>>> PRExxx
>>>>
>>>> So, you could do
>>>>
>>>> BONUS:STAT|STR|2|TYPE=Racial|!PRESTAT:DEX=13
>>>>
>>>> There is somewhere in the documentation that says the PRExxx and TYPE is valid on Bonus.
>>>>
>>>> TYPE=Racial will not stack.
>>>> TYPE=Racial.STACK will stack
>>>> TYPE=Racial.REPLACE will evaluate all such types with the REPLACE vs. any without out and take the
>>>> higher value between the two.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Polymorph from Orc to troll (Example stats, don't take literal)
>>>>
>>>> Say the Orc gets a +2 to Str, and the Troll gets a +4.
>>>>
>>>> Stat base of 10 (12 with Orc, 14 with Troll)
>>>>
>>>> Now, like I pointed out. Your working theory is valid, the caveat though is the Base Races don't
>>>> have TYPEs appended to their STAT modifiers, so your Orc with a 12 would become a 16 when you go
>>>> Troll instead of 14. Why? Cause the Orc is lacking the TYPE=Racial.
>>>>
>>>> The system takes any BONUS:STAT in a race and treats it as TYPE=Racial for Summary UI purposes. If
>>>> you place a TYPE=Racial on those, it looks funky. But it will still work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/10/2013 4:06 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
>>>>> Hmmm, that's not very clear from the documentation then.
>>>>> But if I would change all the monsters to have BONUS:STAT|x|TYPE=Racial, then having multiple templates giving such a bonus would no longer stack, or would they still stack?
>>>>> How would this make the display ugly, if it's basically how it's treated already?
>>>>>
>>>>> I might test it myself but I'd also like to know how it should work, and I'm busy struggling with the 6.00 converter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BONUS:STAT|2|TYPE=Racial is very much valid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, there is one tiny hitch up. Due to how RACES are coded, BONUS:STAT|STR|2 is treated as
>>>>>> 'TYPE=Racial' for the display, but not for stacking. And we'd have a very ugly display if we fixed
>>>>>> the Races today to use the TYPE=Racial.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll flag for James and see if we can't alter it a little to be backwards compatible, and yet, still
>>>>>> look nice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/10/2013 3:45 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
>>>>>>> Is there any way to do something like:
>>>>>>> BONUS:STAT|STR|2|TYPE=Racial
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I'm trying to accomplish is that if a Half-Orc polymorphs into a Troll, he gets the STR bonus from the Troll instead of the one from the Half-Orc, not both as bonusses from the same TYPE should not stack.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The above isn't valid syntax as far as I know, but maybe someone knows another way to do this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't want to remove the template for the Half-Orc, as he should still retain things like the penalty to CHA and INT. Polymorph only changes the physical stats.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "rogerwllco" wrote:
>>>>>>>> So there is no way to get at a CON score after racial adjustments, but before adjustments from items are applied?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Looks like you found the OS variants that work -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> pcgen/docs/outputsheetpages/tokens/outputsheettokensability.html#STAT
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Token Name:* STAT.w.x
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Variables Used (w):* Number as set by the statsandchecks.lst file in the gamemode (0=STR, 1=DEX,
>>>>>>>>> 2=CON, 3=INT, 4=WIS, 5=CHA).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Variables Used (x):* Property (Stat Property).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * None - The adjusted stat.
>>>>>>>>> * NAME - The short name of the stat.
>>>>>>>>> * LONGNAME - The long name of the stat.
>>>>>>>>> * STAT - The adjusted stat (same as STAT.x).
>>>>>>>>> * MOD - The modifier for the stat.
>>>>>>>>> * BASE - The stat before adjustments.
>>>>>>>>> * BASEMOD The modifier of the stat before adjustments.
>>>>>>>>> * LEVEL.y.z.z - Displays the value for the stat at level y. Variable z is optional.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's where you see the .BASE. I'm sure if you did '.BASEMOD' or those others you'd get similar
>>>>>>>>> results.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/4/2012 2:55 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Suppose I have a Dwarf, who has a +2 racial bonus to CON
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I now want to add a template that replaces his CON score, but still adds any bonus he might have from items.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I do BONUS:STAT|CON|21-CONSCORE
>>>>>>>>>> The item bonus no longer shows up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I do BONUS:STAT|CON|21-CONSCORE.BASE
>>>>>>>>>> The racial bonus is still added.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've tried DEFINE:LOCK.CON|21 as well. No item bonus.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've now solved it by making a template "Remove Dwarf CON bonus", which gives BONUS:STAT|CON|-2
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering if that's the only way to go? I wasn't aware I could do CONSCORE.BASE at first, didn't find that in the documentation, found it being used in a LST file. There might be something similar that I've missed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RW.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
>>>>>>>>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
>>>>>>>>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
>>>>>>>>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
>>>>>>>>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
>>>>>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
>>>>>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
>>>>>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
>>>>>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
>>>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
>>>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
>>>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
>>>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
>> Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
>> Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
>> Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>

--
Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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