St. Hilarion s received an inquiry I am not able to answer well. I checked with the inquirer, Athanasios, to see if he would mind me forwarding the inquiry toMessage 1 of 4 , Oct 31, 2002View SourceSt. Hilarion's received an inquiry I am not able to answer well. I checked
with the inquirer, Athanasios, to see if he would mind me forwarding the
inquiry to this list so he could be better answered. He was happy to have
this done, and so here is the forwarded question. Be sure to respond to the
=============== forwarded message ===================
> Dear Father Aidan,approved for use by St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco, when a
> I hope this letter finds you well.
> I am trying to locate an English translation of the Gallican Rite as
congregation affilitated with the ROCOR was using it in France.
> Do you know where I could get a copy in English translation--or, if not inEnglish, then in the original French?
> --I thought that if anyone would know, you would :)
> My sincere thanks for any assistance.
> The Lord be with thy spirit!
> Warm regards,
> sinner Athanasios.
The largest problem with the Gallican rites is that we lack complete manuscripts, or complete missals, breviaries, etc. for them. The reconstruction of theMessage 2 of 4 , Oct 31, 2002View SourceThe largest problem with the Gallican rites is that we
lack complete manuscripts, or complete missals,
breviaries, etc. for them. The "reconstruction" of the
Gallican rite borrows heavily from the Byzantine rite.
It is sort of like the liturgical version of Jurassic
Park, where you graft a modern entity onto pieces of
the old to revive something that has not existed in
over 1000 years.
The "reconstructed" Gallican rite is neither
completely ancient, nor completely modern, but
actually something new entirely. The best term for
this would be neo-Gallican. The largest problem about
reconstructing dead rites is that no one knows
precisely how they were executed when they were
"alive" because scholary input is never absolutely
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... If it were new entirely , then it would be completely modern ! That is simply another way of saying the same thing. However, the fact is that everyMessage 3 of 4 , Oct 31, 2002View SourceJohn Rossomando wrote:
> The "reconstructed" Gallican rite is neitherIf it were "new entirely", then it would be "completely modern"! That
> completely ancient, nor completely modern, but
> actually something new entirely.
is simply another way of saying the same thing.
However, the fact is that every church service we celebrate is a
service of the 21st century. We may use traditonal or older texts, but
there never was another service *exactly* like any given one, nor will
there be again.
That is not to say we should not use traditional texts, however.
> The best term forHowever, this term is already "taken": it is used for the French
> this would be neo-Gallican.
Missals and Breviaries, rewritten by local bishops, that abounded in
the 18th and early 19th centuries. These have little in common with the
ancient Gallican rite, or with the "reconstructed" Gallican rite.
> The largest problem aboutI have often heard this used as an argument against the Western Rite in
> reconstructing dead rites is that no one knows
> precisely how they were executed when they were
> "alive" because scholary input is never absolutely
However, there is no use in trying to "execute them precisely". A good
example is the Liturgy of St. James, which exists in a number of
variants, including a "reconstruction" that is often mistaken for
something very ancient. Does that mean we must renounce everything that
is not in continuous use? If so, there are many services that are still
widely printed, but rarely if ever used; who, for example, has been to
the blessing of a "contaminated well", or of "polluted vessels", or of
a new bridge, or to so many of the orders that are in the Slavonic and
Greek service books? Many services are also done incorrectly, due to
lack of experience by clergy or others involved in them. There are also
disputed points about services in continuous use, for example, whether
or not the priest should wash his hands during the Lord's Prayer.
Fr. John R. Shaw
Dear Friends; The an approved translation of the gallican rite also known as The Liturgy of Saint Germanus of Paris as celebrated by Eglise Catholique deMessage 4 of 4 , Nov 1, 2002View SourceDear Friends;
The an approved translation of the "gallican rite" also known as "The Liturgy of Saint Germanus of Paris as celebrated by Eglise Catholique de France and approved by St. John Maximovitch as well as the Church of Romania can be obtained from Mr. William Carragan at <carragan@...>.