Continuing the "have a little faith"
> I feel that you and Michael are
saying the same thing especially
> when you say 'everything is a
> So, whether it is 'a little faith', the
ego, or anything else -
> Michael says 'it is the play of
> my heart,
> Happily Confused and seeing with
> JamesDear James
spirit is all the same, but wording makes a lot of difference in
Either there are no tools or everything is a tool; but you
some items as tools and some others as not tools. One can argue
logic is a tool and illogic is not; agreed, but logic is a tool only
as long as it seems to work, beyond that you trash logic also!
more confusion happens when you mix up gita and upaniSats; or
different chapters of gita because the contexts are
But I am a strong defender of ego. I will fight it out..
It is a
different flavor of advaita - the advaita with an attitude!
When you said 'everything is a tool' I felt that you and
saying the same thing.
understand 'tools', as it is generally used, to mean an
instrument used to
assist in accomplishing a task.
also feel that there is another understanding of tools (and
all objects) as
pointers to their source.
all there was and is is Silence, I don't know what that would
look like or
When there is a sound, I can
dwell on the sound or I can
acknowledge the sound and see that it refers to
I feel that all objects
are tools in this way and that they
point to their source. It is not that we
have to deny objects (things
like the ego) it is simply a matter of
'emphasis' or how we use
folks at NDS were discussing practice. I see
practice as a tool. There is the
practical application of accomplishing
a task and there is the deeper
understanding of the 'tool' pointing to
For Canadians, lots of cool domain names are available as www.(your
for example, ramana.ca,
nisargadatta.ca, nonduality.ca, jerrykatz.ca,
etc. Why are names like this available?
Other than the fact that very few
people are interested, in the past a
person had to register a business in
more than one province in order to
get a Canadian domain name.
someone's chance to start a website called Nondual California at
www.nondual.ca. Or Consciousness California at
are eating this stuff up. Petros, are you listening?
Good luck to
The only problem is that the payment/registration page isn't
That makes me a little concerned, so check this company out before
>If Sri Nisargadatta was so advanced how come he
still had the
need to smoke? Isn't habit and need attachment? If a
experience' destroyed my most powerful
/habit. I do not understand how others far advanced
be attached to their habits. I do not understand how
who has seen the 'light' could still be interested in candles
match sticks? love, seeker <
~ Perhaps to
bust our notions about what it means to be 'so
My guru is going on a trip tomorrow, and I
was overtaken by some questions
today that I turned into a journal entry this
afternoon. I think you guys
are the only people I know who understand what
this stuff means, and I'd
appreciate hearing about some of your experiences.
I'm locked in. I can observe myself
acting out my life's activities and
events, but I know I'm not really even
alive as that entity who appears to
be doing the acting. That person is my
winter coat for this season. When the
season changes, so undoubtedly will my
I'm beginning to accept this truth, but I'm frustrated by
even that problem.
That is to say, who is doing the accepting? Who is wearing
that coat? Whose
hand is holding this pen?
All action is pointless.
Sure, I'll agree that certain actions or thoughts
can create certain effects
on certain circumstances in certain ways, and
that these effects might even
develop and grow to cosmic levels. But that
too is meaningless to me. There
will always be a greater cosmic goal or
objective to attain, but what's
beyond that? And beyond that? There's more
to it than that simple flow of
energy from one place to another - I know it.
Actually, I'm not looking
for anything at all. I don't want anything. I
don't want to reach the
gateless gate; I don't want to hear the soundless
sound; I don't want to walk
the razor's edge of here/not here, of not
this/not this. I think all I need
right now is a method. Not a method to
realize the absolute, but a method
which I can use to carry out my life's
activities without losing my damned
My mind is shapeless, spilling over onto the floor with every
action. How can I carry this mind more carefully? How can I live
carry on these conversations while knowing that I'm not actually
anything? I'm not really here...
I must be having trouble
reconciling this knowing/not knowing, this
awareness of my own awareness of
my non-existence. This world is constructed
of opposites, but my world is a
void. One may be reflected in the other
somehow, but there is no possible
meaning that can be derived from either
one. I am nothing, yet these words
are coming from something, aren't they?
What is the relationship between the
something and the nothing? How is
something manifested from
Would knowing that help me to live in peace in the
Look, what I'm really looking for here is your best shot. I'm
to any question, any action, any words. Give me your deepest
your most ragged-edged sword to split me open down the middle. Is
practice? Show it to me. Is it a meditation? Take me through it. Is it
philosophy? Describe it to me. But help me most with one thing: help me
see how to clarify my own existence and integrate myself fully into
void. Show me how to burn away my person-sense and yet still live on in
world. Impart to me your greatest secrets, even if they blow me apart.
know that everything will be fine after it all explodes. After all,
explosion is just another experience, too...
I am ready. I am...I
am. I am. I am.
Thanks for sharing in such
a direct and
sincere way, Dustin.
From here, what you say rings
It's the end of complacency, the end of
and reacting to images.
Who knows what will happen?
If the sense
of the ordinary, the usual,
the expected vanishes, who's to
If I'm ready for the deepest pit of
or the highest heaven, or boredom,
rejection, or love, or happiness,
or anywhere in
and not ready for anything,
That's how it feels
The opening is happening.
Don't stop to analyze
I have read your journal from time to time. The experiences you
relate there are common. I know how 'mind' blowing they can be.
are common. They happen to someone like you or me or
anybody who has made a
concious effort to find out.
Now, you asked for it - so let it
At times it may feel herky-jerky, stop and go. That's
Understand it is a process. All of your trips and expectations
being stripped of meaning. The glass is being emptied!
What will be left?
What is on the other side?
Just a natural human being in love with
There may be some profound tears and some unrestrained
Whatever comes in the moment will inform and instruct. Let
Roll with it! Roll in it! Well, you won't have much choice!!!
you had a blissfull experience of expanded conciousness yesterday,
to recapture it. It was for yesterday. Today you may be
overwhelmed by the
utter sorrow and suffering. Don't try to hang onto
is a process. The establishment of the I AM. Of course IT is now
been always here. Just here. Just here. Just here.
We go through this
process for the sheer drama of it all!!!
HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!
- Oh! This! - Michael
No matter how many questions would be
new ones will rise immediately. Any answer is but
a pointer to
the next question. The questions are like
hair, answering is like cutting
hair but hair will continue
That is the power of
conditioning - perpetuating itself
by those questions. The answers can fill
books but knowing
them will only evoke feelings... And new questions
Only one thought is able to knock out the
lot: give up...
Conditioning is like a flywheel empowered by one's mental
So give up... You won't lose your mind...
The issue is "how
much can be tolerated"...
When too much, forced one-pointedness can take of
Who bothers "who is talking, working, walking, shopping
Give up that question too...
What matters is that "those things are
properly taken care of".
"Give up" isn't "the" magic potion. But there
will be a day, when
"give up" just happens... So what is there to lose by
giving up now?
Hi Dustin: I'll go through this, you asked for comments,
if this will "help", maybe help me.
--- In NondualitySalon@y..., "Dustin
LindenSmith" <dustin@j...> wrote:
appreciate hearing about some of your experiences. Entry follows:
acting out my life's activities
> I'm locked in. I can observe myself
> events, but I know I'm not
really even alive as that entity who
> be doing the acting.
That person is my winter coat for this season.
changes, so undoubtedly will my attire, also.
you know you are "not really even alive"? You are a living
with a brain that takes in information, which then
information in certain ways. Don't come to
premature conclusions about
> I'm beginning to accept this truth, but I'm
frustrated by even that
> That is to say, who is doing the
accepting? Who is wearing that
> hand is holding this
Exactly my point. Who is holding the pen,
writing that journal?
"Frustrated" with the problem, because it isn't
a problem. You have
decided arbitrarily that things are a certain way,
but they are not,
and then the problem arises.
action is pointless. Sure, I'll agree that certain actions or
> can create certain effects on certain circumstances in
> that these effects might even develop and grow to
cosmic levels. But
> too is meaningless to me. There will always
be a greater cosmic goal
> objective to attain, but what's beyond
that? And beyond that?
> to it than that simple flow of
energy from one place to another - I
there is nothing, or the kind of nothing you describe, then how can
cause results. Again, there is something happening here.
> Actually, I'm not looking for anything at all. I don't
> don't want to reach the gateless gate; I don't want
to hear the
> sound; I don't want to walk the razor's edge
of here/not here, of
> this/not this. I think all I need right now
is a method. Not a
> realize the absolute, but a method
which I can use to carry out my
> activities without losing my
Yes, this might require some work.
I believe (you should not believe
this until you have experienced it) that
there is a level of
processing information that is below the threshold of
ordinary consciousness, and that this is what is experienced in
concentrated states of meditation. It seems to me that the
information comes in packets that are too small for ordinary
and thus at first appears to be "nothing". But this level
processing is a key to spiritual practice, it is who we are before
construction of meaning can take place. I suspect that with more
practice, we can get to this level, see this "flow" take place,
constructing meaning. That's why we can't talk about it. But
not "not real". The mind is still there, it is the basis of
> My mind is shapeless, spilling over onto the floor
> action. How can I carry this mind more
carefully? How can I live
> carry on these conversations
while knowing that I'm not actually
> anything? I'm not really
You are making the images of reality.
The conversations, the floor,
the thoughts, as I said, something is
happening and you are part of
that happening. Shapelessness is
good. Greg talked about non-local
and atemporal. Here you
> I must be having trouble reconciling this
knowing/not knowing, this
> awareness of my own awareness of my
non-existence. This world is
> of opposites, but my world
is a void. One may be reflected in the
> somehow, but there is
no possible meaning that can be derived from
> one. I am
nothing, yet these words are coming from something, aren't
What is the relationship between the something and the nothing? How
> something manifested from nothing?Great question. Dalai Lama says everything manifests from
particles. Another word for nothing. What is the
you see: inside everything is a whole lot of
nothing, but that is
what is, at the same time. No difference, not in
time or space. So
you are both nothing and something. It's
easier to experience the
something, hard to get to the nothing, but wrong to
conclude that you
are one or the other, and not both. How does it
happen? Damned if I
> Would knowing that
help me to live in peace in the world?
> Look, what I'm really looking for here is your best
> to any question, any action, any words. Give
me your deepest
> your most ragged-edged sword to split me
open down the middle. Is it
> practice? Show it to me. Is it a
meditation? Take me through it. Is
> philosophy? Describe it to
me. But help me most with one thing: help
> see how to clarify
my own existence and integrate myself fully into
> void. Show me
how to burn away my person-sense and yet still live on
world. Impart to me your greatest secrets, even if they blow me
> know that everything will be fine after it all explodes. After all,
> explosion is just another experience, too...am ready. I am...I am. I am. I am.
Think about your
mother. She really loved you. She brought you up
reward. Just did everything because of love. Take that
feeling and stay with that for a while. You'll feel just
and everything will be great. Love,
This is not a recommendation,
but an observation....
In the last several weeks I've spoken to two
people who had amazing results that even decades of spiritual seeking had never
provided for them.....
Zoloft, a medication prescribed for anxiety or
Both of my friends felt more stable, mentally clearer,
peaceful, less agitated after taking Zoloft. One person,
who had been on the spiritual path for 40 years, finally found what he was
looking for, and stopped the spiritual search.
Some paths tell you
that the goal to be sought is liberation, or no-goal, or emptiness or the Self,
or desirelessness, or the transcendence of/or integration with all that is,
etc. And many people adopt these ideas as their own goals. But like
the old children's riddle about how you can tell
when you find what you
want.... when you stop looking....
There are now quite a variety
of SSRIs (Selective Seratonin
Reuptake Inhibitors), and some
of them have little or nothing
in the way of sexual side
effects -- "Celexa" is one of
those. "Zoloft," as effective
as it otherwise is, is a well-
known libido throttler. I
think the gist of what Greg is
saying is not to assume that
psychologically is a spiritual
or philosophical matter and/or
amenable to yogic/meditative
techniques, prayer, "natural"
changes, etc. -- sometimes it's
an ailment that can be remedied
given the help of a skilled
and sympathetic MDiety.
Yes, what you mentioned is sort of close to what I was
getting at in the first place. Here's a message from the MahaMudra list that I
sent in response to something that Terry Nabata has written. He found it an odd
story, and asked, What do the spiritual search and medication have to do with
each other anyway??
You're right, the message begs for a reply and your reply was
right on the mark. Spiritual search, medication, etc. My buddy put them
together, not me. For me, the most interesting and ironic point about the story
is this: at times, what people really look for is not what they tell themselves
they are looking for. My friend who stopped searching was on an advaita path,
and over the previous decades (he's now in his 70's), he explored mostly
Judaism, Kabbala, Zen and advaita, most recently, the latter. If you'd have
asked him, he was looking for Brahman, as advaita says. But according to the
teachings of his own chosen path, advaita, the peaceful and content and clear
state reached by him is much closer to the place advaita recommends to BEGIN
serious study of advaita, not the time to stop. But he stopped there, and was
happy about it!! I noticed the difference in the next phone call we had, and I'm
happy for his relatively non-agitated mental state, like he's feeling "Wow, I've
got it now - the search is over!"
But according to formal advaita, as in
Shankaracharya's _Tattva Bodha_, this is where the student is deemed "qualified"
to begin the study of advaita. I remember when I first encountered his list of
pre-requisites for beginning study, I thought, "Whoa, dude, that sounds like
enlightenment itself, and you say it's just the beginning!" The list, as given
in the Tattva Bodha is called the Fourfold Qualifications for the study of
1. Vivekah - discernment between the Real (consciousness)
and the Unreal (everything else)
2. Viragya - dispassion for the objects
in this world and the next
3. Sampattih (fruits of spiritual practice) (6 of
Sama - staying composed, mind under non-forced control
control of the sense organs and speech
Uparama - accountability and
Titiksa - patience, endurance, nonreactive forbearance of
happiness/unhappiness, and other pairs of opposites
faith in the words of the teacher and scriptures/texts
one-pointedness of mind, ability to meditate/concentrate
4. Mumukshutvam -
the burning desire for liberation
Anyway, that was what was interesting
to me. Another friend worshipped with Siddha Yoga/Guru Mayi for 7 years. When
her singing career took off, she found the happiness she was looking for from
that spiritual path....