Nisargadatta said that there is the I AM and beyond that is the
Absolute. I got the impression that one is different from the
other. He said the I AM started all this mischief.(duality). Mary
Some use I AM to mean the Absolute or ultimate realization.
Some use I AM to mean the highest awareness or state of
consciousness prior ultimate realization. Some use I AM to
mean i-am-ness, being-ness, or knowing-ness, and -- even
like the I AM prior to ultimate awareness -- the basis to it
is bodily, whereas I AM in the sense of the Absolute is not
One can know gradations of meaning in all these terms: I AM,
i-am-ness, being-ness, knowing-ness, the Absolute. It's a
mix or match opportunity of which Nisargadatta took
advantage. This is spelled out in Robert Powell's
introductory note to The Ultimate Medicine As Prescribed by
Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.
Overall, Nisargadatta did differentiate between I AM and the
Absoute. See the compilations
The Nisargadatta Song of I AM
The Nisargadatta Song of Beyond I AM
I hear this as the key line in the quote from Papaji:
"If you identify yourself with the immaculate, Unchanging,
screen itself, which is the same before, during and after
the show, you will not change and so you will not suffer the
changes but enjoy them"
This is key, because Papaji is not saying one will not be
moved by the changes; he is not saying that you will not be
thrown by one word a stranger utters; he is not saying you
must become a cool customer with a great haircut. By no
means. He is saying you will enjoy. This is very important.
I'm having so much fun with this song. Heaven.. I'm in Heaven... I
went to bed singing it inside, and I woke up singing it. As I sang it
all morning, it came in various voices. My favorite thus far is Arnold
Schwartzenegger (sp?) When we're dantzing cloze togedda, cheeck to
~~LOL...so funny wrinkled belly tired from heavin'.
JERRY to OH:
It's good to hear from you again. I'm singing Heaven I'm in
Heaven and making up the verses I don't know. Your verses
change, your chorus is always catchy and lifts me up.
~~You guys are such dolls. Music of the Dears! ,^)) This poem by Rumi
just came floatin' over to pile - thought of you:
WHERE EVERYTHING IS MUSIC
Don't worry about saving these songs!
And if one of our instruments breaks, it doesn't matter.
We have fallen into the place
where everything is music.
The strumming and the flute notes
rise into the atmosphere,
and even if the whole world's harp
should burn up, there will still be
hidden instruments playing.
This singing is sea foam.
The graceful movements come from a pearl somewhere
on the ocean floor.
Poems reach up like spindrift and the edge of driftwood along the beach,
from a slow and powerful root
That we can't see.
Stop the words now.
Open the window in the center of your chest,
and let the spirits fly in and out."
(From The Essential Rumi, Barks)
I found an interesting article on the guru-disciple relationship here;
A very useful and clear article.
Thank you for sharing it.
I see projection going even farther.
The author considers the guru and
student as beings in their
own right, the ones who make
However, how is one to say where I
end and me as projection begins
or vice versa? We see evidence
of projection, but then we see
the "I" that sees this as projection
We have interacting projections,
but no way to say who the projector
is without making a projection in
Another note here: it's impossible
to communicate with words, gestures,
or touch without projection being
Hmm, no one to talk to then.
Nor no talker neither!
Better stop talking and start singing!
Big song and dance.
I'd say that the way to drop all thoughts is by
replacing them with just the one thought that doesn't
have to be dropped, the one thought that takes you
beyond the mind, the thought "I am". That's what
Nisargadatta advised again and again:
"Refuse all thoughts exept one: the thought "I am". The
mind will rebel in the beginning, but with patience and
perseverance it will yield and keep quiet. Once you are
quiet, things will begin to happen spontaneously and
"Focus your mind on "I am", which is pure and simple
"Just stay in the thought and feeling "I am", focusing
"I am" firmly in your mind. All kinds of experience may
come to you - remain in the knowledge that all
perceivable is transient and only the "I am" endures."
"The "I am" is not a direction. It is the negation of
"When you follow my advice and try to keep your mind on
the notion of "I am" only, you become fully aware of
your mind and its vagaries."
"Your dwelling on the fact "I am" will soon create
another chance [of self-realization]. All you know is
second-hand. Only "I am" is first-hand and needs no
proofs. Stay with it."
"The same mirror that shows you the world as it is,
will also show you your own face. The thought "I am" is
the polishing cloth. Use it."
"I am" is a tiny seed which will grow into a mighty
tree - quite naturally, without a trace of effort."
"Just keep in mind the feeling "I am", merge with it,
till your mind and feeling become one. By repeated
attempts, you will stumble on the right balance of
attention and affection, and your mind will be firmly
established in the thought-feeling "I am". "
"Relax and watch the "I am". Reality is just behind
"The door that locks you in is also the door that lets
you out. The "I am" is the door. Stay at it until it
opens. As a matter of fact it is open, only you are not
"Hold on to the sense "I am" to the exclusion of
everything else. It all comes spontaneously, you need
only hold on to the "I am". "
An interesting thought occurred (!) to me while reading this. Thoughts are in
themselves not a problem. It's the lack of attention to them while taking their
meaning for granted -- which is the problem. Replacing several thoughts with
one thought would not make sense otherwise. Give full attention to *any*
thought and it is all the same. An analogy is a bubble. A bubble floating in
the air (visible) is translucent and revelatory. But a bubble in a blood
vessel (hidden) is lethal.
also from MIGUEL-ANGEL:
What is it you are seeking?
If it is peace of mind, then yes, there are many paths.
But peace of mind has nothing to do with you. You are
not the mind.
If it is your real self, then how can you follow a path
to be what you are?
You can't help being what you are already, what you
Until the moment you discovered that the mind is no vehicle to bring truth,
you have been using the mind. That was right for you until that very
discovery. The same is true for people who are still using their mind, maybe
for the wrong things.
So someone comes along and says to those people : "You are using your mind
to to find truth, but the mind can not help you to find the truth" and so
on and so forth.
Some of them will immediately understand what you say, others won't. That's
a fact. Nothing works the same for everybody. That simply is not possible.
However clear it is to you what you are saying, a lot of people simply will
not understand it or even agree with it. And that is so because they are
what they are and that might not include the understanding of what you are
I am sure that your I AM proposition does not work for everybody. That is
simply not possible. A lot of people won't even begin doing it. (I am one of
them, it simply does not appeal to me) No problem. Reality includes
everything and that means literally everything, nothing excluded.
Thoughts are like clouds,
they come and they go.
Feelings are like waves,
they rise and they fall.
Whatever comes...this too
shall pass away, how?
Now is how...now is always how.
Breathing the Peace that you bring to me in and out.
In the present moment I am........
Emilie, who is grateful for your gift
Looking is sky and looking is
who you are. You can't not look. Look at thoughts, look at ideas, look
at theories, look at beliefs, look at truths, look at jokes, look at
wisdom, look at pleasures, look at pains, look at boredom. Looking is
_it_. Look at looking if you are interested in who you are. It is always
present, never bothered, always on top, just like sky.
One constructs dualities, then gets caught in the process
of defending one side of a duality (self, me, good,
life, enlightenment, right way) against the other
(other, you, bad, death, ignorance, wrong way).
There's no other way to resolve this except to see
*who* is constructing duality and *who* catches self
in dualities. Continually striving to see some truth,
have something come about in a certain way, only
"Dropping thoughts" is an interesting subject line. Who is there to
drop thoughts? "I" am a thought, so "I" cannot drop thoughts. "I"
can really do nothing, bound as I am by my "I-ness."
It seems that something must be seen or understood, and thoughts will
just drop, without effort. Any effort is of course made by "me."
Sky is Heart.
By entering the cave one discovers ....
XAN quotes RAMANA:
"Everything is the Self. There is nothing but that. So the Heart
must be said to be the entire body of ourselves and of the entire universe,
conceived as 'I'. But to help the prastiser we have to indicate a definite
part of the Universe, or of the Body. So this Heart is pointed out as the
seat of the Self. But in truth we are everywhere, we are all that is and
there is nothing else."
MARCIA shares more she has read about "Idiots":
"The "Enlightened Idiot" corresponds with the "know-it-all" -
someone who thinks that they have it all figured out (and, in
fact, they may). It is an extremely difficult task to "descend way
back to Ordinary Idiot" (an Ordinary Idiot is like an unspoiled
child) - to give up that which makes him "special", all the accrued
knowledge, the thousand "insights", the associations that set him
apart from everyone else. Like asking Einstein to teach addition
and subtraction to a first grade class.
An "Idiot" is someone who is working on himself, yet his type
determines how his efforts manifest - how he can get stuck at a
given level/place - identified with a certain pattern of behavior."
when translating some of chief Tuiavi's lectures from
German into English I was reminded of how severe the "thinking-disease" has
become. Not to mention how many times I had to hear "mind" or "spirit"
often is associated with thinking... a common mistake made by those
unfamiliar with the basics of meditation. But probably it is easier to
teach pigeons reading than it is convincing people that the ongoing
thinking is not "normal" but a disease... Who does consciously know that
enjoying to the full and thinking are mutually exclusive?:)
GENE offers a new site.....below is only a snippet
of what can be read in its enirety at the site indicated:
_Solipsism_ from 'Ask Grandpa'
"Dear reader, do you really exist? Do I? What do we really know? Next
to nothing, that's for sure. However, I will pour balm on troubled
waters, because I have found a method in this specific wilderness.
There are other texts here in these Ask Grandpa pages working over
this territory, but I reckon I should write one extra under this
heading, to attract attention if for no other reason, because this
word, "solipsism", does attract attention, but for the wrong reasons
....... One is wise to resist the
temptation of 'change for the better'; the illusory allure of
'advancement' is the goad which is effective only for those who see
themselves as divorced from the essence.
Being willing to stand in place (abide) the buffeting winds of
apparent change; being willing to observe without reacting; these are
the hallmarks of one who is in place after the crowd has panicked and
fled to their sacred hidey-holes.
The vaunted and agonized ideals of the seeker, are the very bed of
coals over which the seeker turns, spitted upon misplaced ambition.
Basted by denial, and eventually served to the moon upon a bed of
crisp cosmic laughter, the best one can hope for in this case is a
Hi, I will be your waitperson tonight... my name is