Perhaps the answer is right in front of our eyes, perhaps not. I
believe the eyes and everything they see to be a mental projection.
The answer is perhaps beyond our eyes.
Warmth and peace and love are not
lubricants, it is what we are at the core.
Isn't it a lovely mindgame ? Who are you, Dan, Bruce, Jodi, Marcia, Melody,
Neo, Glo, Phil, Paul etc.
Who am I. You exist only in my imagination. And so do I. If i don't use my
imagination, you simply do not exist. So Who is speaking with Who, Who is
arguing with Who, Who is fighting with Who Who is defending Who is
I haven't got a clue.
Please enlighten me, i'm in total darkness.
A person can get lost in anger or in peace if one is avoided
and the other sought.
It may be easy for some people to say that nothing needs to
be done, that everything is as it should be, but people need
to be kept busy until that is realized. That's why so many
teachers have developed their own brand of 'work'. Work is
good. All work serves to bring a person to that which is
nondual, unchanging reality.
Jerry shares some words of SWAMI VEDA:
"In the practice of silence, only truth is spoken.
Speak truth; speak that which is pleasant.
Do not speak unpleasant truth; do not speak pleasant
This is the ancient law of silence, that all spoken words
come true when they arise from the depths of silence."
from The Mantiqu't-Tair of
Faridu d Din'Attar
"All you have been, and seen, and done,
Not *You*, but I, have seen and been
and wrought. . .
Pilgrim, Pilgrimage and Road
Was but Myself toward Myself:
And your arrival but Myself
At my own Door. . .
Come, you lost Atoms, to your Centre draw. . .
Rays that have wandered into Darkness wide,
Return, and back into your Sun subside."
could it be that the only problem with negative emotions is when we
identify the source of the negative emotion as someone other than
ourself? The problem then arises that when the negative emotion is
there, we blame the other for providing it.
An excellent question. With experiential knowledge on how
identification works, it is quite possible not to respond to
emotions, whether negative or positive. The margin of reason
and intellect is rather narrow; when the margin is exceeded,
reason and intellect are left behind with the familiar
results. What can one do when a post clearly exceeds accepted
limits of behavior? Warn the proper authorities and follow
instructions :) Or when it is clear it concerns a "paper
tiger" post, just ignore :) This requires some self-discipline
and restraint, maybe rare character assets these days...
Com passion is shared passion. There can't be real compassion unless there is real
passion. Real passion is being happy when you're happy, sad when you're sad, angry
when you're angry. Supressing 'negative' passions is attachment to those passions.
Yes, suppression is attachment and not good at all. I do think it is
also possible to not have any anger or other negative emotions.
IMO, the question is not what i can do, but if i can just look and do
nothing. If i can't , i am *DUAL* and the name of this game is *NONDUAL*.
At the same time, this can become a big trap. I notice that i am *dual*, so
i want to become *nondual* but this very act is *dual*. So, what can i do ?
Nothing. But i notice that i can not do *nothing*, so i try to find ways to
do *nothing*, but that is *dual* again. So, what can i do. Nothing. And this
can take 1 moment (so they say) or several years (i know). I am still in it.
Your Highness Nothingness
Realise that the notion of self and other is false then there's no one to
be angry at.
why converse with apparent others
in a dream world --
when we could be wallowing in (as)
the fathom-less bliss of self?
why have the impossible (non-dual!)
conversation at all?
is having it!
it's the salon of the non-conversation
among those that don't exist
and still, joyfully
.......................channelled material is
from our own Highest Self, which is one with the One, which is
nondual in nature.
But as the information is channelled down, or as it comes down the pipeline,
with each change of pipeline, it gets smaller and smaller.
Like at the top, the pipe is infinite, then connected to a pipe of say 10
sillion miles across, which is connected to a smaller pipe, etc down to
pipes of 6 feet, 4 feet---3 inches, 1 inch etc.
So I think that channelled material is filtered through pipes of different
sizes. down to us. We, of course, are also pipes of different sizes which
will respond to a connection which fits us at the present time. End
This Saloon... is like an ongoing play,
with ~courtesy~... the one rule to obey.
The cast and the audience... intertwined,
as spirit moves each... to be so defined.
Some ad-lib their 'part'... in a burlesque way...
others read from scripts... all the words they 'say'.
The plot tends to ebb... or with gusto flow,
depending on how bright the moon does glow.
(just kidding... :-)
The one thing that's always consistent here...
there's much to ponder... while we sip our 'cheer'.
Henry offers some timely RUMI:
or wrong thinking
is a field.
I'll meet you there.
XAN and MARCIA:
~ How about the shock of not rebuilding?
For me this was the most shocking.
I thought about that as I was writing. It is not really
rebuilding but letting it go. You know what I mean?
~ Maybe rebuilding as the habit of constant letting go?
When I get a shock my temptation is to hang onto it
and justify it or explain how it wasn't really my fault
or some such nonsense. So in being able to let it go
or give it up or even serve it up to something higher
then that is a second shock. The first shock is in keeping
enough attention to see it in the first place and the second
shock is in having enough gumption to accept it and let
" What if the year 2000 were a new beginning, an opportunity to turn,
all together, the culture of war and violence into a culture of peace and
A shared vision with many, I'm sure.
The question is How? I guarantee it will
not be by telling people they *should*
be more peaceful and loving. That sort
of preaching and nagging approach just
stays in its own silly loop.
(and, also from Xan...)
It is quite possible not to identify emotions
- not to label them as anger, sadness, positive
or negative - but to recognize them as energies
moving through, like weather.
It is also quite possible not to identify *with*
emotions, making no value judgements on
oneself or others just because this energy
is moving through ........
Anyone admitting to pain, or struggling with being not at peace, is in a
relationship with their own tenderness, the innocence and sweetness of the
soul...so Judi's attempt to "pierce" the crust, as some have referred to it,
is perceived as an assault on that tenderness...on that, now jargonistic,
inner child. We all respond to threats to our children in the same
way....defensively, "righteously angry," Judi is not different than I was,
when I resented her responses to me.....(BTW: I have lived for 5 years with
attacks on my children and their safety...when I came here, broken-hearted,
and torn apart by my inability to protect them, Judi's response was "drama
queen." Yet, a very much removed "attack" on her child was valued and
defended here on the list, and her response was affirmed and validated,
whereas mine was ridiculed and derided. I took from this that she really had
no idea what my experience was and therefore was not speaking to me but some
idea she had of me. My shock from her responses faded to pity for her
blindness, to disdain for her ignorance, and, ultimately, the recognition
that I had no more of a clue about her than I felt she had about me.)
I'm not defending Judi's actions. I'm just saying that she is a real
human being to me, (as you are), with real human vulnerabilities, and a
real heart. "Jason Robarts" and "Neemyth" on the other hand, are
puppets, and the person(s) hiding behind them is showing only
superficial cleverness, self righteous smugness, and a fear of the
light. Maybe if I got to know them I'd see them differently, but that's
how I see them now.
Andrew, I have to respectfully differ. The source of this is the tendency
to like one kind of puppetry as against another kind. "Persons" are
puppets by definition. There are no true persons as against false
Let's cut to the chase. "Vulnerabilities" are not specifically human. A
bug is vulnerable to being eaten by a bird or stepped on by a human foot.
Neither is "heart" an exclusively human characteristic. The human is a
predatory animal at the top of the food chain (for now). If one is
vulnerable or "has heart" it just means there is consciousness of the
predicament of all sentient beings, including those not human. It also
means understanding that one is not special because human, but shares in
the predicament of all: suffering and mortality.
Part of the suffering is the donning of masks to communicate. I don't
know of any participant here that *does not* do that. There is a peculiar
hard-wiring to replicate the personality from one day to the next. It's
like the way memes (and virii) work for survival. The mask/personality is
defense mechanism. Everyone uses it. It's instinctive.
I do not defend "Robarts" and "Neemyth". That's not the point here.
KRISTI responds to Andrew:
Of course, you are right....but I'm ashamed to say Judi on this list has
become a person hiding behind superficial cleverness, self righteous
smugness and a fear of gentleness to me....Maybe if I got to know her I
might see this differently....
Judi, the person, I do not know and have not been able to get to know
through her postings here........this is my failure...I am not a refined
This really isn't about Judi...it's about the process in which all human
beings engage...by which we evaluate the desireability of a given
personality and assess the affinity we have for each one; accepting some and
rejecting others. It is also about the capacity we have for defining "the
other." The terms by which we decide who is reasonable, what behaviors are
acceptable, and where we set the line for rejection or condemnation....and
then group think sets in..and, voila, we have defined a new temporary
concensus reality that sets, by definition, in juxtaposition to someone
else's definition.....and even here, among so many enlightened or
experienced seekers...we do no different......
I sometimes imagine how consciousness expressed through the interactions of
a group will evolve over time...what the taste and flavor of this group
might be in a thousand years......would it be different; how do we imagine
that change to occur?
A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion here about dead gurus, and I wrote a
kind of flippant post saying "Any dead gurus who read this are welcome to visit
anytime." As I hit the send button I felt a slight sense of forboding. The next day,
about 5:30 in the afternoon I was walking along not thinking about anything in
particular, the phrase popped into my head, as if someone was speaking it. I looked
up, and a large owl (barred owl) was sitting on a branch above me watching me. The day
after that, at about the same time, I was driving along, about 15 miles from where I
had been walking the day before, and again, the phrase popped into my head. I looked
up, and a large owl (it looked the same) crossed in front of me, flying towards the
west. Both times, the phrase occurred to me before I saw the bird.
I have no explanations or conclusions or beliefs around this, its just what
happened. However I do find that apparent reality is increasingly what I make it, I
mean, what is in my mind tends to show up in the 'external' world.
The field Rumi talks about :-)
I don't know about anyone else but for myself to be able
to actually really feel an emotion is wonderful. If it is anger
I stuff it cause it isn't nice, if it is joy I began to cling to it
cause I don't want it to go away, if it is love I question
wherther I really deserve it. In other words I mind fuck
emotions as they arise. I bring them back over and over
again to "me" cause emotions are supposed to connect
and I don't allow that to happen.
OLD HAG drops in:
Been away fixing up pile for awhile. Anything interestin' happen while i
was gone? ,^))
Someone quoted Rumi, "Out beyond right and wrong, there is a field, I
will meet you there." (or somethin' like that). Wanted to say, i been to
that field once, met Kevin Costner there, tossed a few
balls......dreamin' again, old women do that a lot.
Cleaning up papers, found this poem darlin' xan sent once. Thought maybe
worth a repeat.
Free and Easy:
A spontaneous song of indestructible wisdom by Gen'dün Rinpoche
Happiness is not to be found
through great effort and willpower.
It is already present in open relaxation and letting go.
There's nothing to do or to undo.
Whatever momentarily and adventitiously arises in body-mind has no real
import at all -
has very little reality at all.
Why identify with it and become attached to it, passing judgement on it
and on yourself and others?
Far better simply
to just let the entire game happen on its own, springing up and falling
back again like waves,
without 'rectifying' or manipulating things, just noticing how
and then magically reappears, again and again and again time without
It's only our searching for happiness
that prevents us from seeing it,
like a vivid rainbow one runs after but can never catch or a dog chasing
its own tail.
Though peace and happiness have no existence as some actual place or
they are forever at hand -
one's constant companion at every instant.
Just don't be taken in by the apparent reality of good and bad
They're like today's passing weather
like rainbows in the sky.
Wanting to grasp the ungraspable,
you exhaust yourself in vain,
but as soon as you open up and relax the tight fist of grasping,
infinite space is right there - open, inviting, comfortable.
Use this spaciousness - this freedom and natural ease.
Don't look anywhere else.
Don't go off into the tangled jungle
searching for the elephant of great awakenedness when he is already at
quietly resting in front of your own hearth.
There's nothing to do or to undo
nothing to force
nothing you have to want
Emaho - how marvellous!!
Everything just happens of itself!!"
~~Emaho! That's what Kev said as old bones leaped in air and caught high
pop-up with one glove inbetween rickety legs! He was always joshin' me
cause i took the game so seriously, i wanted to "wine!" hoho..."win!"
but he would jes laugh at my shenanigans, and pretty soon i'd forget and
laugh too, especially when the wolves came and we started all that
prancin' around. Emaho indeed!....but you ain't interested in an old
woman's dreams, now anyway. ,^))
i am touched often by the utter preciousness of all of you,
I have been lurking for a few months and haven't had the desire to
pop up till now.
For me the eloquence of the email from the participants on this list
that speak from the heart need no embellishment. They are clear,
succinct and speak to me of the truth.
Other types of postings are of less interest to me and I don't look at them.
I have found that when one speaks from the truth this clumsy form of
written communication called email and even speaking directly with
words pales with the experience that one is in touch with within
>I could ask, What do you all thing about channeling in general?
There is only just one... thinker-of-thought*...
with six billion 'nodes'... through which thought is wrought.
Channeling... is done by those who won't 'see'...
Only-thinker*... is abiding... AS... "Me".
* = whatever name, word or concept 'you' choose.
( /\ )
Avoiding what is harmful has nothing to do with non-acceptance or not
loving. I may "accept" lions and tigers and cobras, but that does not
mean I have to allow myself to be eaten or bitten. To love implies seeing
something as it is, and respecting distance if necessary. To love may
also mean expressing your real emotional state, rather than covering it up
with sweetness and light.
Terry offers from PAUL REPS:
*The Gates of Paradise*
A soldier named Nobushige came to Hakuin, and
asked: "Is there really a paradise and a hell?"
"Who are you?" inquired Hakuin.
"I am a samurai," the warrior replied.
"You, a soldier!" exclaimed Hakuin. "What
kind of ruler would have you for his guard? Your
face looks like that of a beggar."
Nobushige was so angry that he began to
draw his sword, but Hakuin continued: "So you
have a sword! Your weapon is probably much too
dull to cut off my head."
As Nobushige drew his sword Hakuin re-
marked: "Here open the gates of hell!"
At these words the samurai, perceiving the
master's discipline, bowed.
"Here open the gates of paradise," said