I can say that I know truly nothing about this nonduality
'stuff' as it seems that the more I learn the more I realize
there is to know and, as you, I am a but a humble student
fitting for the scrapes of understanding that the 'giants'
leave lying around.
All I know is what these great teachers of mine in this
nonduality group have shown me, wrestled with me, beat me up
and left my finger tips bruised from pounding the key board
in anger (which is a lesson in and of itself). Please, do
not be intimidated by expressing your 'lame' views to this
group. It is the only way to quickly get up to speed.
After a view confrontations generated by hanging your 'ass'
on the line you will quickly pick up the language and from
there you will find that we are 'all' a bunch of misguided
'head scratchers' looking at the map. Some say "let us go
back to where we went astray" and others say "Let us
re-design our path from here" and that, my friend, is where
the real fun begins...
You are in good company.
(Quoting from Adi Da's autobiography, The Knee of Listening,
its most famous portion, about which Alan Watts said it
alone was worth buying the book for.)
The Man of Understanding is not 'entranced'. He is not
'elsewhere'. He is not having an 'experience'. He is not
passionless and inoffensive.
He is Awake. He is Merely and 'Brightly' Present. He knows
no obstruction in the the form of mind, identity,
differentiation, and desire. He uses mind, identity,
differentiation, and desire. He is passionate. His quality
is an offense to those who are entranced, elsewhere,
contained in the mechanics of experience, asleep, living as
various forms of identity, separation, and dependence. He
is acceptable only to those who understand.
He may appear no different from any other man. How could he
appear otherwise? There is nothing by which to appear
except the qualities of life. He may appear to have learned
nothing. He may seem to be addicted to every kind of
foolishness and error. How could it be otherwise?
Understanding is not a different communication than the
ordinary. There is only the ordinary. There is no
ordinariness-excluding Communication that is the Truth.
There is no everything-excluding State that is the Truth.
But there is the understanding of the ordinary.
Therefore, the Man of Understanding cannot be found, except
by the living heart. He cannot be followed except to teh
'Bright' Divine Heart Itself. He can only be understood,
even as the ordinary must be understood. He is not
(conventionally)'Spiritual'. He is not
(conventionally)'religious'. He is not
(conventionally)'philosophical'. He is not
(conventionally)'moral'. He is not (conventionally)
'fastidious', 'lean', and 'lawful'. He always appears to be
the opposite of what you are. He always seems to sympathize
with what you deny. Therefore, at times and over time, he
appears as every kind of persuasion. He is not consistent.
He has no self-image. At times he denies. At times he
asserts. At times he asserts what he has already denied. At
times he denies what he has already asserted. Therefore, he
is not 'useful'. His Teaching is every kind of 'nonsense'.
His Wisdom, it seems, is vanished. Altogether, that 'is' is
At last he represents no separate Truth at all. His
paradoxes deny every seeker's 'Truth', every path by which
mankind depends on mere simulations of Freedom and
Enjoyment. He is a seducer, a madman, a trickster, a
libertine, a rascal, a fool, a moralist, a sayer of truths,
a bearer of all experience, a prince, a king, a child, an
old one, an ascetic, a saint, a god. By mumming (or mock
playing) every seeker's role of life, he demonstrates the
futility of every seeker's path of life, except he always
coaxes every one to only understand. Therefore, by all of
this, he makes understanding the only possibility. And
understanding makes no difference at all. Except it is
Reality, Which was already the case.
Heartless one, Narcissus, friend, loved one, he weeps for
you to understand. After all of this, why have you not
understood? The only thing you have not done is
understanding. You have seen everything, but you do not
understand. Therefore, to 'Brighten' your heart, the Man of
Understanding Joyfully suggests that you have already
understood! He looks at the world and sees that every one
and every thing has always understood! He sees that there
is only understanding! Thus, the Man of Understanding is
constantly Happy with you. He is overwhelmed with
Happiness. He says to you" "See that there is only this
world of Perfect Freedom and Enjoyment, where every one is
Love-Bliss-Happy, and every thing is Love-Bliss-Full! His
'Bright' Heart is always tearful with the endless Happiness
of the world.
He has grasped the Truth within the ordinary, but no one is
interested in Truth. Because he has become the Truth, he is
of interest to no one. Because he is so ordinary, he is of
interest to everyone. Because no one understands the
ordinary, he is not understood. Because there is only the
ordinary, he will become famous for understanding it.
Because there is only the Truth, he is the Beloved of all.
Because you feel you understand him, you find it necessary
to touch his hand. Because you love him, you find it
possible to touch his ears. He smiles at you. You notice a
sudden 'Brightness'. Everything has already died. "This" is
the 'other' world.
Happy thanksgiving to everyone!
I've been thinking about sharing some non-duality teachings
with some of my family members (who speak/read only in
spanish)- stuff like J.K, Nisargadatta, or any other stuff.
The more accessible the better.
If anyone has any suggestions for my book hunt, please let
the other idea I had was printing out spanish version stuff
from whatever web sites may have it and just give them a
binder of collected works. My intent here is to share with
them something that has impacted me in my life- basically
just to share of myself ans open up further possibilities in
sharing and openess.
thank you all so much,
Four Ramana Maharshi books online in Spanish here;
Dear Tomas, You may contact Rony Mishal about this. He
lives in Spain and is running a small bookstore, as far as I
know especially with books on this topic.
Perhaps he can help or redirect you for some titles. His
address is ronymish@...
(he doesn't speak Spanish
You may also try the Latin American online bookstores like
www.losandes.com (presently under construction).
Personally I have been searching for I AM THAT by
Nisargadatta in Spanish, but I never found it. I know it
exists. It was translated into Spanish in the '80s:
ISBN: 84-86221-97-8autor: Maharaj, Nisargadatta t�tulo: Yo
soy eso traductor: Frutos, Ricardo detraducido del:
Castellanoeditor: SIRIO. Editorial Sirio, S.A. prf: 7808 ;
002-6751.serie: Violetaedici�n: 1. ed.fecha aparici�n:
03-1988colaci�n: 750 p. ; 13x21 cmencuadernaci�n:
teladocumento: 8803771precio: 2500 pta CDU:
133.52 materia: . Astrolog�a. fecha alta: 21-03-88fecha
I would be most grateful if you would let me know, in case
you come up with some fruitful results.
Some J.K.'s books in Spanish can be purchased by order at
Krishnamurti Foundation of America P.O. Box 1560, Ojai,
California 93024-1560 USA
Krishnamurti Diaro (Krishnamurti's Notebook), $7.95
Krishnamurti Diaro II (Krishnamurti's Journal), $6.95 La
Totalidad de la Vida (The Wholeness of Life), $7.50
TIM G: I'm just beginning to sense anything but the sense of
BEING as an unnecessary burden, in fact an exhausting and
misery-producing burden. I can only speak from my own
experience. I don't think I need anything but what I have
always had and always will have - Myself.
SKYE: Yes, we all have our yoga. In my journey the wonders
of the universe do not strike me as necessary or unnecessary
burdens, even in the depths of turmoil. But if i were to
let myself rage because i have a belief that the universe is
not living up to my expectations, then i suppose would i
feel something like your exhaustion and sense of
So yes, strive to silence that pesky little voice in your
head. To walk in a world balanced on the edge of becoming.
That's all my kind really asks.
Like Xan already pointed out earlier in a similar way:
You already ARE silence. The nature of your beingness IS
silence. Thus, it is your very nature that allows you to
hear noise, to see images, to experience sensations. You
need not create silence by trying to silence something that
is making noise. Silence is primary. The noise floats,
drifts and plays within it. Be yourself. Be this silence
and there is no need to silence anything.
Now if you are trying to create silence, wishing this pesky
voice away, you are striving for a "conditional silence". A
conditional silence that depends on whether or not a pesky
little voice is present. The unconditional silence, you
need not strive for. The unconditional silence, that you
This silence is what makes this lovely pesky little voice
Krishnamurti talking with children at Rishi Valley school,
I wondered--the other day when I saw you all having a good
time--what is going to happen to you all? Will you live a
life with fire burning in you or will you become for the
rest of your life a businessman or a housewife? What are
you going to do? Should you not be educated to cut through
respectability, to burst through all conformity? Probably I
am saying something dangerous, but it does not matter.
Perhaps you will give an ear and perhaps this will sink
somewhere into your consciousness and perhaps in a moment
when you are about to make a decision, this may alter the
course of your life.
Student: How is one to be sensitive?
Krishnamurti: I do not know if you noticed the other
evening, it was drizzling. There was a sharp shower. There
were dark, heavy, rain-laden clouds. There were also clouds
that were full of light, white, with a rose-coloured light
inside them, And there were clouds that were almost like
feathers going by. It was a marvellous sight and there was
great beauty. If you do not see these things when you are
young, when you are still curious, when you are still
indecisive, when you are still looking, searching, asking;
if you do not feel now, then you never will. As you grow
older life encloses you, life becomes hard. You hardly look
at the hills, a beautiful face or a smile. Without feeling
affection, kindness, tenderness, life becomes very dreary,
ugly, brutal. And as you grow older, you fill your lives
with politics, with concern over your jobs, over your
families. You become afraid and gradually lose that
extraordinary quality of looking at the sunset, at clouds,
at the stars of an evening. As you grow older, the
intellect begins to create havok with your lives. I do not
mean that you must not have a clear, reasoning intellect,
but the predominance of it makes you dull, makes you lose
the finer things of life. You must feel very strongly about
everything, not just one or two things, but about
everything. If you feel very strongly, then little things
will not fill your life. Politics, jobs, careers are all
little things. If you feel strongly, if you feel vitally,
vigorously, you will live in a state of deep silence. Your
mind will be very clear, simple, strong. As men grow older
they lose this quality of feeling, this sympathy, this
tenderness for others. Having lost it they begin to invent
religions. They go to temples, take drinks, take drugs, to
awaken this spontaneity. They become religious, but religion
in the world is put together by man. All temples, churches,
dogmas, beliefs are invented by man. Man is afraid because
he is lost without a deep sense of beauty, a deep sense of
affection. And, having lost this, superficial ceremonies,
repeating mantras, rituals become very important. In
reality, they have no importance at all. Religion born of
fear becomes ugly superstition. (p29-30)
Student: Why do we all want to live?
Krishnamurti: Don't laugh because a little boy asks, when
life is so transient, why do we crave to live? Isn't it
very sad for a little boy to ask that question? That means
he has seen for himself that everything passes away. Birds
die, leaves fall, people grow old, man has disease, pain,
sorrow, suffering; a little joy, a little pleasure, and
unending work. And the boy asks why do we cling to all
this? He sees how young people grow old before their age,
before their time. He sees death. And man clings to life
because there is nothing else to cling to. His gods, his
temples, don't contain truth; his sacred books are just
words. So he asks why people cling to life when there is
What do you answer? What do the older people answer? What
do the teachers of this school answer? There is silence.
The older people have lived on ideas, on words and the boy
says, "I am hungry, feed me with food, not with words." He
does not trust you and so he asks, "Why do we cling to all
this?" Do you know why you cling? Because you know nothing
else. You cling to your house, you cling to your books, you
cling to your idols, gods, conclusions, your attachments,
your sorrows, because you have nothing else and all that you
do brings unhappiness. To find out if there is anything
else, you must let go of what you cling to. If you want to
cross the river, you must move away from this bank. You
cannot sit on one bank. You want to be free from misery and
yet you will not cross the river. So, you cling to
something that you know however miserable it is and you are
afraid to let go because you don't know what is on the other
side of the river.
having visited the Osho Zen Tarot web page and having been
given this card:
To transform breakdowns into breakthroughs is the whole
function of a master. The psychotherapist simply patches
you up. That is his function. He is not there to transform
you. You need a meta-psychology, the psychology of the
It is the greatest adventure in life to go through a
breakdown consciously. It is the greatest risk because
there is no guarantee that the breakdown will become a
breakthrough. It does become, but these things cannot be
Your chaos is very ancient--for many, many lives you have
been in chaos. It is thick and dense. It is almost a
universe in itself.
So when you enter into it with your small capacity, of
course there is danger. But without facing this danger
nobody has ever become integrated, nobody has ever become an
Zen, or meditation, is the method which will help you to go
through the chaos, through the dark night of the soul,
balanced, disciplined, alert.
The dawn is not far away, but before you can reach the dawn,
the dark night has to be passed through. And as the dawn
comes closer, the night will become darker.
TIM H: "this world is a paradox thus is not real"
LYNNE: And yet we "play the game" all the same, because that
is all there is to do?
TIM H: No Lynne, I do not believe this. There is no 'game'
to 'play'. Reality is perception. There is no reality. No
reality, no game. No game, nothing to do.... except
inflict huge suffering on a world of people that were never
given a chance. Why no chance? Fear. Fear of what? Fear
that those with the resources will face the fact that they
may be wrong. So totally wrong. Does a 'thing' require our
'belief' to exist? No.
The argument that God does not exist is valid in the sense
that a 'conscious' God is so far beyond where one finds
one's 'present' level of conscious awareness that God might
as well not exist. However, if we evolve consciously in
'that' direction then eventually, the veil will be dropped
and 'all' will find themselves with their 'just' rewards.
This is the path that I am on. Unlike others, I believe
that we live in a very consciously aware global poulation
(as far as those that oppress go) and I race for the 'place'
where these 'heads' are held accountable to a universal law
of 'conscience'. That is my way of non-harm. My 'version'
of ahimsa. I sit down here in the sewers 'by choice'
'observing' the desicration of humanity and, even now as I
go without food for days so that my son goes to school with
a full belly, I revel in the days when those that 'know'
better sat by and watched it happen with their thumbs up
their asses all in the name of 'nothing to do'...
there are 'no' free rides if I have anything to say about it
and, frankly, I think I do.
Further, action/reaction, cause/effect, law of Dharma, law
of truth, are consistent and proven beyond doubt.
Does the principles of 'karma' require our belief to exist?
No. If we 'choose' to believe that these laws do not apply
to us do they? Yes. After all, there is no distinction
between good and evil but the law is the constant.
Is it considered 'good' and 'kind' to starve people in a
world of plenty? Is it 'good' and 'kind' to kill in the
name of the very God you do not believe exists? Is it
considered 'good' and 'kind' to mentally and physically
abuse children? Is it 'good' and 'kind' to rob a man and/or
a women of their dignity and label them so that they can not
even get 'shit jobs' to provide a simple meal for their
family? Is 'good' and 'kind' to rob people of their ideas
rather than provide them with the resources needed to
We all bitch about violent crime when it rears its head on
our 'turf' and yet we fail to see that the expression of
violent crime is generated from an environment that we,
through starvation of resources, have created. By the time
it hits you it is because it is overflowing into your
neighborhood. Yet, we blame the youth and the criminals as
if we ever gave them a choice how much of 'crime' is based
in the very survial of a man?...
Were we fall short on 'playing the game' with any sort of
'expertice' is that we live in a world where 'treatment' is
more profitable than 'cures' and as the human man becomes
resistent to the diseases we 'create more'... thus, if it
is 'all about playing the game'... then quite frankly,
those that play are not very good at the game. Step up to
the Majors if you think you can hack it... I am not
'fighting' the good fight to give everyone a free ticket to
'heaven', nirvana, paridise, Eden, so do as you wish
I fight to preserve goodness and kindness, patience and long
suffering, tolerance and peace in a world that has forgotten
about what these things mean.
We think we are all 'up' on our game and yet, the more we
shed light into the darkness the deeper the darkness goes.
We push it under ground where 'secret societies' with secret
languages and unheeding loyalty. There ranks full of the
very people that have been 'ejected' from your 'game'.
If we are 'lucky' they are patriots and freedom fighters.
They fight what is called the good fight.
The fight of faith that those 'experts' in control will tire
themselves and reform.
Below them, another 'breed' of humanity altogether that has
'become' the very thing that they hated. They have changed
sides of the coin so many times that they are deluded with
anger and simply hate everything and anything that is not
exactly the same. The risk taken to 'fight' the things we
hate is to become those things thus now becoming the thing
that the 'other' hates...
Is this the 'game' that you are talking about?
I am sorry Lynne this is not directed at you but it must be
said and your comment/questioned pulled back a bandaid that
made this 'Humpty Dumpty' leak a little (for those of you
that remember my Humpty Dumpty and leaking Bandaids story).
"Light on the Path" through the "Gates of Gold".
It is material channeled through Mable Collins in 1918.
Following is a quote:
"The whole nature of man must be used wisely by the one who
desires to enter the way. Each man is to himself absolutely
the way, the truth, and the life.
But he is only so when he grasps the whole individuality
firmly, and by the force of his awakened spiritual will
recognizes this individuality as not himself, but that thing
which he has with pain created for his own use, and by means
of which he purposes, as his growth slowly develops his
intelligence, to reach to the life beyond individuality.
When he knows that for this his wonderful, complex,
separated life exists, then, indeed, and then only, he is
upon the way. Seek it by plunging into the mysterious and
glorious depths of your own inmost being. Seek it by
testing all experience, by utilizing the senses in order to
understand the growth and meaning of individuality, and the
beauty and obscurity of those other divine fragments which
are struggling side by side with you, and form the race to
which you belong. Seek it by study of the laws of being, the
laws of nature, the laws of the supernatural; and seek it by
making the profound obeisance of the soul to the dim star
that burns within. Steadily, as you watch and worship, its
light will grow stronger. Then you may know you have found
the BEGINNING of the way. And when you have found the end,
its light will suddenly become the infinite light."*
* See it by testing all experiences, and remember that when
I say this I do not say: "Yield to the seductions of sense
in order to know it." Before you have become an Occultist
you may do this; but not afterwards. When you have chosen
and entered the Path you cannot yield to these seductions
without shame. Yet you can experience them without horror:
can weigh, observe and test them, and wait with the patience
of confidence for the hour when they shall affect you no
longer. But do not condemn the man that yields; stretch out
your hand to him as a brother pilgrim whose feet have become
heavy with mire. Remember, O disciple, that great though
the gulf may be between the good man and the sinner, it is
greater between the good man and the man who has attained
knowledge; It is immeasurable between the good man and the
one on the threshold of divinity. Therefore be wary lest
too soon you fancy yourself a thing apart from the mass."
All are invited to visit The Core website. Below is a small
sampling from the site (the main pages are in question and
answer format). Also, there are links to many other sites
on the Web related to Advaita in many of its expressions, as
well as a musical selection in RealAudio format. Here is
You are invited to take Satsangh with the page author, and
maybe to unlearn a thing or two :-)
With Love and OM,
------------ Q: What's the biggest obstacle to realization?
A: The idea that realization is some kind of extraordinary,
unusual state to be achieved. In actuality, the *exact
opposite* is true. The entire world is like a mental
hospital, and those who are realized are the only ones
getting well. Yet we are trained almost from the moment of
birth to view the everyday world as 'normal,' and so
anything that doesn't fit within that framework is seen as
extraordinary. This idea is incredibly powerful and
difficult to root out. It has to be accepted that this
state most of us are in right now is most unnatural, and
that realization is simply returning to the natural, right
way of thinking and being. The world is sick to the core,
and only a few get well. Yet the mind persists in thinking
of duality as 'normal.' Even the culture in India, where
saints and gurus are venerated or worshipped, doesn't help
in this -- in fact, it makes it worse. There's no ready
solution to this issue. See that realization is not a state
to be strived for or achieved, and that may be enough. If
not, then every single idea in the mind may have to go,
along with the mind itself. The mind must cease to operate
entirely and with it all ideas. Or, you may have to isolate
from the world entirely so that your ideas of 'normal' and
'abnormal' become fuzzy and weakly defined. Whatever it
takes, to get rid of this backward and wrong idea that
realization is an extraordinary state, and especially that
it is a state to be achieved. You already have it, but it
is covered up with just such ignorant ideas as 'realization
is unusual and for the few!'
from Astavakra Samhita
Translation by Thomas Byrom
Chapter 6 - Knowledge
1 I am boundless space.
The world is a clay pot.
This is the truth.
There is nothing to accept, Nothing to reject, Nothing to
2 I am the ocean.
All the worlds are like waves.
This is the truth.
Nothing to hold on to, Nothing to let go of, Nothing to
3 I am the mother-of-pearl The world is a vein of silver, An
This is the truth.
Nothing to grasp, Nothing to spurn, Nothing to dissolve.
4 I am in all beings.
All beings are in me.
This is the whole truth.
Nothing to embrace, Nothing to relinquish, Nothing to
>From the book of Psalms:
"Lord, my mind is not noisy with desires, and my heart has
satisfied its longing.
I do not care about religion or anything that is not you.
I have soothed and quieted my soul like a child at its
My soul is as peaceful as a child sleeping in its mother's
I have sat at the table and blessed the bird, Thanked the
Unknown for fortune great and small.
I laughed with the children, Snoozed off the mashed
potatoes, And even sat on the balmy beach for a couple
hours. The waves lapped my feet.
Do you want to know what has been since the beginning of
Just THIS! Just THIS!
None else my soul hath known, None else is it rejoicing.
Hope you all have had fine holiday!
I've just read four nd salon digests' of words and ideas.
I submit for re viewing:
"The energy of the whole has taken possession of you. You
are possessed, you are no more, the whole is. This moment,
as the silence penetrates in you, you can understand the
significance of it, because it is the same silence that
Gautama Buddha experienced. It is the same silence that
Chuang Tzu or Bodhidharma or Nansen.... The taste of the
silence is the same.
Time changes, the world goes on changing, but the experience
of silence, the joy of it, remains the same. That is the
only thing you can rely upon, the only thing that never
dies. it is the only thing that you can call your very
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