Thanks Elizabeth; I will check. I havent found much in the labor camp search. I didnt realize that there were updates. The strange thing about this search isMessage 1 of 31 , Jan 17View SourceThanks Elizabeth; I will check. I havent found much in the labor camp search.I didnt realize that there were updates.The strange thing about this search is that I started with some info and didnt get an inch frther, where in other cases I had nothing and was abel to make somewhat of a trail,Mark T.
CanadaFrom: Elzunia/Elizabeth Gradosielska/Maczka <elzunia@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 5:43:26 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Re: SevZhelDorLag
I don't remember if I answered your question below and maybe you've already found the information, but just in case you haven't, try
there are 27 Turkiewicz's mentioned here
the Karta lists are updated continuously so you need to check every so often.
I'm lucky because my dad wrote his autobiography and included the dates and camp names mentioned below.
Just a reminder: if Polish letter are jumbled on your screen, set your Koding to Unicode UTF-8.
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
--- In mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com, Mark Turkiewicz wrote:
> My father joined Anders in Persia too.
> I am not sure if he was deported with his mother and sister.
> How can I find out the camp he came from?
> And my grandfather who was arrested on Sept 29, 1939? He was a police sergeant, on the Ukraine List.
> Mark Turkiewicz
> From: Elizabeth Olsson
> To: mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 8:04:16 PM
> Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Re: SevZhelDorLag
> Yes, Stan Ã¢â‚¬â€œ this is exactly the route my father took, as did many of our memberÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s relatives:
> Jerzy Gradosielski:
> September 18, 1939Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Tarnopol, arrested by Soviets
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Krzywy RÃƒÂ³g, Dniepropietrowska, Ukraine
> April 27, 1940Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â transported to SiewÃ…Â¼eÃ…â€šdorÃ…â€šag, Komi RA,Â Russia (Uchto-Peczora Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Czyboj: nr 13)
> Aug 1941Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â released, transported to JuÃ…Â¼a, Iwanowska, Russia
> September 3, 1941Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Joined Anders army, in Tatishchevo, Russia
> August 5, 1942 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â by ship from Krasnovodsk across the Caspian Sea to Pahlavi
> He never talked much about his time in Siberia so itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s very interesting to read all these (terrible) descriptions and details. Thank you.
> Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
> AlingsÃƒÂ¥s, Sweden
> Names: Maczka. Gradosielski.
> Kresy: Osada Krechowiecka. Wilno.
> Siberia: Monastyriok. Siewzeldorlag, Komi.
> Army: Pestki 316 Transport. Sappers 5KDP.
> From:mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stanislaw Zwierzynski
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 7:08 PM
> To: mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Re: SevZhelDorLag [1 Attachment]
> [Attachment(s)from Stanislaw Zwierzynski included below]
> I'mÂ straightened your translation, it became a little better.
> In addition, Iexplained what is chuni. Its used warprisoners, who had no shoes. These are product of wood or hemp, whichÂ Europe peasants had during the Middle Ages. However in Europe there was no frost minus 50.
> Elzuna, I know your father was there and survived, went throughÂ war and gave birth to you.
> He is a hero.
> From:John Halucha
> To: "mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com"
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 2:47 PM
> Subject: [Kresy-Siberia (est.2001)] Re: SevZhelDorLag [1 Attachment]
> Thank you very much for posting this enlightening document, Stan.
> It is of special interest to me because both my father and my uncle (his brother) were prisoners of war, active in the Polish Army when captured by the Soviets in September 1939 and enslaved in theÂ Sevzheldorlag building the railway between Kotlas and Pechora. This document provides a lot of statistics specific to that location, but many of the observations about GULAG conditions and treatment of PoWs could undoubtedly be applied to the situation of all Poles who were in similar circumstances.
> Especially interesting is the apparent stress on trying to maintain a distinction between Polish PoWs and "ordinary" convicts. The Soviets deemed them as different from other prisoners even if they treated them all pretty much the same way (with segregation ordered but not enforced, resulting in beatings by other prisoners, and some extra restrictions on PoWs), and made a point of de-classifying them as PoWs for such offences as "escape, the anti-Soviet statements, refusals to work, etc." It is not made clear in the document, but a possible consequence is that such de-classified PoWs were not eligible for "amnesty" in 1941. Can anyone shed light on that?
> Notes about the Poles being uncooperative and unproductive are a wryly humorous tidbit in this grim tale. Knowing how obstreperous my father could be in the face of injustice or unfairness, the Poles' defiance is not a great surprise.
> Attached is a Google translation of Stan's Russian-language document, typically awkward in parts but generally comprehensible. It was translated in sections that roughly correspond to original pagination to the nearest full paragraph. The location of footnotes shows where a page ends, more or less. The original Russian is preserved with English translation below to ease closer inspection. Apologies for the footnote style, which I have reconstructed but not re-formatted after the Google translator stripped the formatting.
> Improvements are enthusiastically solicited. For one thing, Google translates "Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸ï¿½Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸ï¿½Ã Â¸Â±Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸Å¡Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸Å¾Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸Å"Ã Â¸Â±Ã¯Â¿Â½Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸â€¢Ã Â¸Â±Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸Å"Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸â€¢Ã Â¸Â±Ã¯Â¿Â½Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸Å¾Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸â€™Ã Â¸Â±Ã¯Â¿Â½Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸Å¡Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸ËœÃ Â¸Â±Ã¢â‚¬Â¦ Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸â€ºÃ Â¸Â°Ã Â¸ï¿½Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸â€œÃ Â¸Â°Ã Â¸â€¢Ã Â¸Â±Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸â€¢Ã Â¸Â°Ã Â¸â„¢" as "narkomchermetovskih camps", which means nothing to me. Can someone explain?
> John Halucha
> Sault Ste Marie, Canada
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Hi John, Thank you so much for posting the translation. I have just finished reading it and printing it off. As you know, my father was there too. Best wishes,Message 31 of 31 , Jan 20View SourceHi John,Thank you so much for posting the translation. I have just finished reading it and printing it off. As you know, my father was there too.Best wishes,Basia (UK)On 20 Jan 2013, at 00:51, John Halucha wrote:Thank you very much for sharing this dissertation about construction of the Kotlas-Pechora railway in Komi, Stan.
My father was enslaved in that region and helped to build that railway.
For those who have not yet read the document but are interested in this location, I am attaching a raw Google translation to save you some time. I don't speak Russian, less say read Russian, so cannot speak to the accuracy of the translation. However, it seems to read quite well and no doubt we can extract at least the broad meaning. Someone with a working knowledge of Russian may find it useful as a preliminary stage and undertake to do a better translation.
This is a scholarly work short on conditions in the camps and long on underlying political decisions. The main lesson I took from it is that slave labour for development of Komi, particularly the railway through the region, was the motivation for incarcerating people like my father - the "corrective" element of imprisonment was a cynical front. The author does not shy away from emphasizing the cruelty and violence inherent in the repressions.
Again, thank you Stan for this interesting window into the minds of the perpetrators.
John HaluchaSault Ste Marie, CanadaPS Mark T. - A pox on the all their houses, or arenas. After shovelling the latest dump of snow here, I found this document a better way to spend my afternoon.
From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 5:16:32 AM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] SevZelDorLag [1 Attachment]
SevZelDorLag - forever.File name (Azarov) has been written in Russian, so it can not be opened. Is replaced by scripts.
Stephen, maybe you say - how in Russian (English) language, sounded letter combination SZCZ (Maszcz...)