John I personally, also feel very uncomfortable with this attitude of conflict in group, causing me to run away and being afraid to post or ask question or putMessage 1 of 62 , Nov 14, 2012View Source
John I personally, also feel very uncomfortable with this attitude of conflict in group, causing me to run away and being afraid to post or ask question or put view forward, for fear of personal persecution or personal attack. So far, when I have made error and I have made many in learning, the group has nicely corrected me by using facts, history and not personal implications, snipes or comments, on my emotional state.
All of us have been hurt and this group is like a massive Triage Unit in the Hospital of K.S. with similar, same people sharing their pain, their findings and occasionally their emotional state. But we as a group have never condemned or judged people personally, only pointed out errors in misconceptions of history, followed by facts. This is what guides us and teaches us and the compassion, understanding, care and others knowing our pain, HEALS US.
This group is not a Debating Forum, but a caring, respectful group engaged in research, which sometimes is of a very personal nature and very painful. We have exploded at times because of the pain, members have felt free to share this pain openly, (I personally have learned so much from the pain of others, that I am not alone and there are far worse than me and that my pain is not unique. As an individual this pain is very personal, but we are one of many and by helping each other we walk the mile together) we understand this and feel SAFE in our research, albeit at times, clumsy compared to the more knowledgeable members who reach out in absolutely amazing way to assist us.
I have rambled, but knowing the true spirit of the group, know that I will be understood for this is our Spirit, this is why we formed the KS Group, to help each other in research and somehow alleviate the feeling of lost and pain and give our members a place of belonging in safety, sometimes better than real family.
How many of us have real family left? Cherish what we have of the past that is good, value what we have now and honour, respect, always remember loved ones lost, researching in a positive way so our children and future generations will know the TRUTH and be proud of who they are and where they came from.
I apologize to all, those confused by my statements, especially our wonderful tolerant John from Canada.
If I understand you, you seem to be apologizing if I was "confused" by your use of words like "hysterical" and "psychopathic" to describe the post of another member. So, are you saying the problem was mine, my inability to comprehend?
To be clear (in case something is lost in translation), I repeat that I look forward to argument about facts, figures and perspectives. But I object to personal labels because they stifle discussion rather than promoting it. Therefore, I am also uncomfortable with you describing me as "our wonderful tolerant John from Canada" even if you meant that sincerely rather than sarcastically.
It is impossible to take any meaning from the silence of moderators or others on the forum about the personal remarks, so I can't assert that this signals a change in the tone or focus of the group. All I can do is see if it is an isolated instance or the beginning of a trend.
In all this, I have addressed my remarks to what you have said rather than putting labels on you. If that reflects the spirit of the KS forum then I hope to keep learning from others here for a long time to come. I hope I am not alone and marching out of step.
Sault Ste Marie, Canada
Dear All, I have been reading the various posts about the level of spats that have been going on. I understand so well that feelings run high about certainMessage 62 of 62 , Nov 16, 2012View SourceDear All,I have been reading the various posts about the level of 'spats' that have been going on. I understand so well that feelings run high about certain issues. We can all understand that but, even though feelings can run high, the foundation of this group is mutual respect. We need that foundation so that we can, infact, have discussions which widen our knowledge and enable us to ask questions and ask for help. If we start to feel that we may be 'shot down' if we say the wrong thing or phrase something wrongly , then it will result in many people not feeling able to post any more which would be such a dreadful shame.I can understand that those of us who are more academic are keen on numbers and getting these numbers right, etc. We all, I think, learn a lot from the academics among us. I certainly have done so. However, we have to be careful that we don't just 'objectify' the people involved in these numbers because every number is a person and every person had a family and was loved and once lived and breathed. We must never render them to a mere statistic.I think that we have had a wake up call and I hope that, in future, we will all continue to treat each other with respect and accept that sometimes we may have different views which come from different backgrounds, ethnicity, etc. I would like to think that the recent 'misunderstandings' were as a result of bad translations and, perhaps, someone not quite understanding the volatile nature of the words used. I will continue to think that so that I can keep within myself a positive view.I commend John for bringing to our attention the need to remember the magic R word - RESPECT. It is always because of a lack of respect and the objectification of peoples that allow other nations to believe they can just invade a country, rob its people of all that is dear to them and not give these people a second thought. As we all know - we all have suffered from this. You only have to look at the signings off of our members - we are all scattered to all points of the world! How many of our parents, grandparents actually wanted to be in these foreign lands? How many of us, today, wish we could sign of with Poland ( I include the Kresy in this).I love this group, I bless the day I was idly googling and found Kresy-Siberia. I bless the decision to join the group. How could I know on that wet Sunday afternoon that just 4 years later I would be corresponding with my very own lost family and planning to meet them. I can never thank this group enough. Of course, we will have disagreements and, of course, sometimes we may get royally disgruntled by one member or the other, but - we have all suffered loss, pain, carried our parent's pain and we all have the same aims.I thank you all again, from the bottom of my heart, for all that I have learned, for all that has been returned to me and for healing my heart and soul after a lifetime of having a half of me missing. Let's not spoil this group just because, for a time, we feel so strongly about something, that we forget both manners and respect. They are simple things to live by but really difficult things to regain once lost.Warmest wishes to you allBarbara Szczepanska DunleavyNottingham, England.
From: Carol Hornby-Clements <craftyccc@...>
Sent: Thursday, 15 November 2012, 21:22
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Personal labels
Well said.I have learned much here, gained documents and have other leads to pursue. I plan to go to Wilno next year.I am grateful for the help received and will share future findings.Carol UKOn 15 November 2012 21:16, LenardaSzymczak <szymczak01@...> wrote:
John, you have been understood correctly. You were the one who put your head up first and drew the fire. Thank you. If not you then it would be another member. You defended the Groups Values.This group works on positive and in this we feel safe and have comfort in the painful research we do.If anyone becomes derogatory or abusive or wants to have a heated debate , this is not the forum to release those emotions, as we have values, respect, honour, loyalty (perhaps old fashioned Chivalry) as group and individuals, we have gone to hell and back, with many of us still very sensitive about our loss, but came out with a positive attitude for individual and group research, we found a place on this earth were we are understood and can share this pain and perhaps, in time, make this world a better place, step by step, simply by telling the TRUTH and slowly those in the world, who want to listen, will understand and see the real horror of what happened.Thank you again, for trying to be Vigilante, as you have shown with your actions, (you are one of many) that in this amazing group, we have members who really care and understand all others, trying to see and learn from other members point of view (if respectful) most of the time.As Basia Z. Says we should be passionate about the history, passionate in our words, but always respect each other and uphold the values of the group. We have at times become personal with other members but never insulting.Until this last incident, I was so proud of group, thinking that we, with all our combined people, from all over, who suffered and were in the Kresy during this horrific time, no matter what religion, language, ethnic background etc. Us as a group, were achieving, actually assisting and co-operating better, than any know Parliament on this Earth. Was I wrong? Let’s treat this as a wakeup call and get on with doing the job better.Every one of us who has input, brings honour and more good information to KS Group, we have done this in the past and will keep doing this. This is what makes our group special and different and a large extended family, of a people who have been through the same pain, some more than others. So let’s keep the family squabbles private and outside group, where the public cannot judge us, abiding by the code of conduct as expected within the group. Honest, caring, respectful, informative, correcting, yes, but never insulting to an idea, or information put forward, or another member personally or because of their information, otherwise we lower our standard and become uncivilized, (destroying the values of freedom of speech) blocking future research and this affects the entire group.Each of us has a painful journey of discovery and research; we share the same load with different skills and knowledge. By all means, correct the information if it is wrong and also add more information as it comes to light, with new information being found every day. If you are not aware of code of conduct online, then please read Group Policy and become aware. In our openness, caring, sharing, respect and most of all assistance to each other, we are strong as one and what hurts one, hurts all and what is most damaging, it is in public view. Our personal derogatory opinions, we keep private offline, but online we follow the code of conduct and speak to Group and each other with respect and good old fashioned manners, knowing we all went through the same or similar HELL ON EARTH.My apologies for another ramble, but truly, use this as a wakeup call and let’s do better in the future, John only did what many of you would have done and got in trouble for it.. It was an attack on the integrity and code of Group, which he was defending.I personally get so angry at this petty bickering and waste of time, which should be devoted to civilized research, which is instead, demeaning and lowering the standard of KS, as we are here, specifically, to research, support and assist each other in Group.Warmest regards,Lenarda, AustraliaThanks for being heard on this despite your frightfully busy schedule, Krystyna.It is somewhat comforting to see that you "expect the group to run itself during this period" because I did not relish what was starting to look like a vigilante role. Perhaps I have been overly sensitized by the current spate of anti-bullying messages in my part of Canada (and perhaps yours) that seem to say anyone who is not part of the solution is part of the problem.There has been a spate of support on forum and in private messages to me (thank you, all) but if I am reading accurately between the lines some members feel this is a private spat between individuals - ironic, since my concern was about personal jabs in the first place. No doubt, any such sentiment is fed by my up-front acknowledgement that I was protesting as an individual member rather than someone with a legitimate policing role.I leave it in your hands to offer further clarification of the point. I also leave it to you (and other members) to challenge further personal attacks if they occur. This particular vigilante is retreating.Good luck with your other work.John HaluchaSault Ste Marie, CanadaDear John,No the rules of the group have not changed. We continue to expect that members will treat each other with respect.If the moderators (Stefan and I) have been quiet lately, it is because Stefan has been dealing with the death of his father, and we are both dealing with Grant Application deadlines, and Grant project work on the Virtual Museum that also has strict deadlines. We cannot take time away from these critical activities just now, so we expect the group to run itself during this period.Of course, we welcome any member that will accept to become a moderator and relieve us of this added burden. Please consider this and let us know if you would be willing to take this on.Stefan and I, as well as Aneta and Anna, are finding that 24 hour days are far too short for our needs, and we would appreciate some added assistance from the members.Kind regards,Krystyna-----Krystyna Szypowska - Winnipeg, CanadaExecutive Director, Kresy-Siberia Foundation - registered in Warsaw (KRS 0000326445)Chair & Exec Director, Kresy-Siberia (Canada) Inc. - Registered Charity No. 83341 6407 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting FREE 83341 6407end_of_the_skype_highlighting RR0001Director, Kresy-Siberia (UK) - Registered Charity No. 1137210--